Where are you on the transport network?

[Orang Utan]

If you've got a booked seat why can't you sit down?

Cos as soon as they cancel one train those bookings vanish and you have to wrestle your way onto another train but make sure it’s the right operator and ticket or you may have to buy another. Seems designed to confuse

 

[teuchter]

Cos as soon as they cancel one train those bookings vanish and you have to wrestle your way onto another train but make sure it’s the right operator and ticket or you may have to buy another. Seems designed to confuse

Oh I see, you didn't mention your train had been cancelled. Make sure you claim your refunds.

 

[Orang Utan]

‘A ticket does not guarantee a seat’ - WHY THE FUCK NOT? I expect to sit on any long distance journey. Why is that too much to ask? And why is there still such a thing as first class? Sitting alone in an empty first class carriage cos FUCK THE SYSTEM

 

[tim]

If you've got a booked seat why can't you sit down?

Piles, but they still made him book a seat.

 

[existentialist]

If you've got a booked seat why can't you sit down?

I'm going to Swansea, too, but I will definitely be sitting down, because the police take a dim view of stand-up driving.

 

[T & P]

‘A ticket does not guarantee a seat’ - WHY THE FUCK NOT? I expect to sit on any long distance journey. Why is that too much to ask? And why is there still such a thing as first class? Sitting alone in an empty first class carriage cos FUCK THE SYSTEM

 

[teuchter]

‘A ticket does not guarantee a seat’ - WHY THE FUCK NOT? I expect to sit on any long distance journey. Why is that too much to ask?

It's because it's not possible to adjust train length according to how many people want to travel on any given service. It's nearly always possible to book a seat when you buy a ticket. If it's not, that means the service is booked up and you can't be sure you will be able to sit down.

Most other long distance travel modes simply tell you that you can't travel, if the service is booked up. That's what would happen on trains if they adopted the same system. In France on the TGV if it's full you can't travel, maybe not even on any other service that day. In the UK, you can choose between a guaranteed seat on a service that might not be your first choice, and taking your chances on the service you actually want. I prefer this system.

Unfortunately we might see a move to more booked-seat only services in the future, as a result of people not being able to understand that if they don't book a seat, they don't have a booked seat, and then making a big fuss about it.

 

[Orang Utan]

Would prefer the European model. If I can’t sit down I don’t want to travel. What if I were disabled?

 

[teuchter]

Would prefer the European model. If I can’t sit down I don’t want to travel.

Don't buy a ticket without a seat reservation then.

What if I were disabled?

You would buy a ticket with a seat reservation, if your disability meant it was important that you were able to sit down.

 

[Orang Utan]

Don't buy a ticket without a seat reservation then.



You would buy a ticket with a seat reservation, if your disability meant it was important that you were able to sit down.

But then you’d lose the reservation if there was a cancellation. Wouldn’t a rail replacement service be preferable over an overcrowded train?

 

[T & P]

But then you’d lose the reservation if there was a cancellation. Wouldn’t a rail replacement service be preferable over an overcrowded train?

Long distance? Absolutely. I had never heard of the concept until I moved here. I suspect in most countries in the continent it wouldn’t be allowed to happen by the government regulator even any train operator had the audacity to try such scheme.

It’s mind boggling that the British public has become inert to something so fucking unacceptable and appalling as buying a long distance train ticket and possibly having to stand up for the journey, which would be taxing even for anyone young and fit not to mention everyone else, or you can’t take it, having to sit on the floor like a fucking dog. Between coaches right next to the bogs for added insult.

It nothing else it should be illegal on health & safety and/ or welfare grounds. For all the derision air travel gets in comparison to train travel, at least the various regulatory bodies have the power and will to tell the likes of Michael O’Leary to fuck right off whenever he tries to charge for using the toilets, or indeed introduce standing plane tickets.

 

[teuchter]

But then you’d lose the reservation if there was a cancellation.

This would also apply in a reserved-seats-only system.

 

[teuchter]

Long distance? Absolutely. I had never heard of the concept until I moved here. I suspect in most countries in the continent it wouldn’t be allowed to happen by the government regulator even any train operator had the audacity to try such scheme.

It’s mind boggling that the British public has become inert to something so fucking unacceptable and appalling as buying a long distance train ticket and possibly having to stand up for the journey, which would be taxing even for anyone young and fit not to mention everyone else, or you can’t take it, having to sit on the floor like a fucking dog. Between coaches right next to the bogs for added insult.

It nothing else it should be illegal on health & safety and/ or welfare grounds. For all the derision air travel gets in comparison to train travel, at least the various regulatory bodies have the power and will to tell the likes of Michael O’Leary to fuck right off whenever he tries to charge for using the toilets, or indeed introduce standing plane tickets.

It's rather evident that you are not a very seasoned traveller.

 

[T & P]

It's rather evident that you are not a very seasoned traveller.

I know for a fact that nowhere near as extensively as you when it comes to trains. But then, even if there are places in Europe where a long distance ticket doesn’t guarantee a seat, I’d wager it’s not the norm in the high standards-setting countries we should we aiming to match.

At least the countries that don’t care if you have to stand for six hours or ride on the roof charge passengers measly amounts if not let them ride for free.

The UK system on the other hand is equivalent to going to a restaurant in central London that costs what would get you Michelin star level service in the Continent, and yet sometimes having to eat your food standing up if it’s very busy.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

hmm

i can see the argument, but how would this work in practice? (or how does it work in practice in countries where long distance trains are pre-booked passengers only?)

i can catch the local train from the wayside station here to Reading, then without having to pass through any more gates, get on cross country or long distance great western trains. most UK stations (other than terminus stations) are similar.

making long distance trains pre-book only would need check in desks / gates at all stations that long distance services call at (and these of course would need staffing all the time trains were running) - along with a lot of building work to put barriers between local / long distance train platforms. either than or you'd need at least one guard per door on every long distance train.

and in turn, long distance trains would no longer serve many of the smaller stations in more rural counties where they provide the only service (some of great western's long distance services call at small stations in the cotswolds / cornwall etc, the london - weymouth service is also the 'all stations' train west of poole)

and then i can imagine the fuss that would be made by people who got to the station late and missed their train / wanted to travel earlier or later than they had booked for any number of reasons / wanted to travel at short notice and all the trains for the next day or two were already fully booked / turned up at the last minute and there was a queue at the check in so they missed their train...

 

[Orang Utan]

This would also apply in a reserved-seats-only system.

Well yes. But no one would have to stand. It’s simple. No seat. No service. Fill the seats not the train

 

[teuchter]

Well yes. But no one would have to stand. It’s simple. No seat. No service. Fill the seats not the train

They would still have to stand if a train got cancelled and they had to be put on another train which was already full.

Aside from cancellations, or other types of disruption which would cause problems either way, no-one has to stand under the present system.

Possibly to stop people complaining we should have an opt-out rather than opt-in to seat reservations. You get a message saying, no reservable seats left for that service, are you still happy to buy this ticket if you are not guaranteed a seat.

There have been countless occasions where I have much preferred to have to stand for part of a journey, than to have to wait and travel the next day, or be forced to buy some kind of more expensive ticket. Usually it's when I've left decisions to the last minute about travelling home at christmas, or something. It's my choice to take that risk in return for flexibility, and I don't want it taken away from me thanks.

 

[teuchter]

I know for a fact that nowhere near as extensively as you when it comes to trains. But then, even if there are places in Europe where a long distance ticket doesn’t guarantee a seat, I’d wager it’s not the norm in the high standards-setting countries we should we aiming to match.

At least the countries that don’t care if you have to stand for six hours or ride on the roof charge passengers measly amounts if not let them ride for free.

The UK system on the other hand is equivalent to going to a restaurant in central London that costs what would get you Michelin star level service in the Continent, and yet sometimes having to eat your food standing up if it’s very busy.

I once stood all the way from Copenhagen to Hamburg. For example. Can't remember if we were supposed to have reserved seats or not.

My comment about your lack of travel experience was more aimed at your ludicrously rose tinted view of air travel where lots of amazing regulation means that people never end up sleeping on airport floors or suchlike.

 

[Orang Utan]

The point is we shouldn’t have let the service get this unreliable to the point where we are used having to stand all the way despite booking a seat, whilst looking out for the right stop so we can make the connection for the next stage cos we can only afford a split ticket cos the fares are so extortionate, all the while making sure we’ve got on the right service run by the right operator and are not sitting in an empty carriage of slightly plusher seats that we should have paid an extra £50 for but now have to pay £200 for cos we didn’t see the signs.

 

[teuchter]

Sure, but making long distance trains compulsory reservation is not going to improve things. In fact it would quite suit those who'd like to see the railways stripped back to something more like the airline industry where it's mainly focused on extracting revenue rather than providing a public service.

 

[T & P]

I once stood all the way from Copenhagen to Hamburg. For example. Can't remember if we were supposed to have reserved seats or not.

My comment about your lack of travel experience was more aimed at your ludicrously rose tinted view of air travel where lots of amazing regulation means that people never end up sleeping on airport floors or suchlike.

Yes, because having to sleep at an airport due to disruption or delay is in any way comparable to the concept purposedly selling standing tickets on planes

Jesus fucking wept, teuchter... You have outdone yourself

 

[tim]

Long distance? Absolutely. I had never heard of the concept until I moved here. I suspect in most countries in the continent it wouldn’t be allowed to happen by the government regulator even any train operator had the audacity to try such scheme.

It’s mind boggling that the British public has become inert to something so fucking unacceptable and appalling as buying a long distance train ticket and possibly having to stand up for the journey, which would be taxing even for anyone young and fit not to mention everyone else, or you can’t take it, having to sit on the floor like a fucking dog. Between coaches right next to the bogs for added insult.

It nothing else it should be illegal on health & safety and/ or welfare grounds. For all the derision air travel gets in comparison to train travel, at least the various regulatory bodies have the power and will to tell the likes of Michael O’Leary to fuck right off whenever he tries to charge for using the toilets, or indeed introduce standing plane tickets.

Italian railways are much the same, at least on the slower long-distance routes, the IC trains need a reservation, but at least you can get to where you want to even if it means standing for 5 hours on Christmas Eve.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

They would still have to stand if a train got cancelled and they had to be put on another train which was already full.

Aside from cancellations, or other types of disruption which would cause problems either way, no-one has to stand under the present system.

Possibly to stop people complaining we should have an opt-out rather than opt-in to seat reservations. You get a message saying, no reservable seats left for that service, are you still happy to buy this ticket if you are not guaranteed a seat.

There have been countless occasions where I have much preferred to have to stand for part of a journey, than to have to wait and travel the next day, or be forced to buy some kind of more expensive ticket. Usually it's when I've left decisions to the last minute about travelling home at christmas, or something. It's my choice to take that risk in return for flexibility, and I don't want it taken away from me thanks.

Yes they do. If you were a true seasoned traveller you would know that.

 

[mx wcfc]

Yes they do. If you were a true seasoned traveller you would know that.

Yep, as a seasoned Cross Country commuter, standing is neither rare, nor a big deal. I sort of get that someone who spends a lot of money for a long distance journey will get pissed off it they can't sit down, but a seat is a rare luxury on my journey home.

 

[hash tag]

Well yes. But no one would have to stand. It’s simple. No seat. No service. Fill the seats not the train

Sorry to read of your plight. Train subsidies are poor in the UK and the companies have to take in money somehow. Your experience illustrates why many prefer to drive.

 

[Orang Utan]

Sorry to read of your plight. Train subsidies are poor in the UK and the companies have to take in money somehow. Your experience illustrates why many prefer to drive.

If they have that option in the first place.
For many, driving is an even more out of reach option than train travel. I prefer coach travel but it just takes soooo long

 

[mx wcfc]

If they have that option in the first place.
For many, driving is an even more out of reach option than train travel. I prefer coach travel but it just takes soooo long

OU - I really do get your frustration with this.

As a regular Cross Country commuter my experience is that the cross country routes are commuter/local routes for long parts of their journeys. In the beforetimes, I used to get a train travelling from Bournemouth to Manchester. A few people did that whole journey. The train picked up people at Southampton , filled up at Winchester, and then more so at Basingstoke, with commuters going to Reading and Oxford. From Basinsgstoke, it was always standing room only.

I expect there are more links around the country where Cross Country is the only route people can take to get to work.

It is shit. It is due to the piratisation of our trains. But it is "normal" for those of us that do it regularly. It's shit, yes. But if we couldn't get on the train, without a seat booking, I wouldn't get home from work some nights.

 

[A380]

 

[danny la rouge]

View attachment 299758View attachment 299757

How does that manage to look so dismal?

 

[tim]

How does that manage to look so dismal?

I thank God that something still does in Disneyfied contemporary London. It's a failed future the entrance to Farringdon Crossrail station.