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what does emily benn tell us about the state of politics

taffboy gwyrdd said:
So, when the new mayor of Rome was greeted by his supporters chanting "Duce" earlier this year, was that a rhetorical trick too? or was it just not "some politics"?

But at least fingerprinting the Romany aint politics is it? That would be a problem. Maybe its just a rhetorical trick too.

I dont think you spoke to Operation Paperclip or Naomi Wolfes talk and strongly founded hypothesis. Nothing political about them, just more rhetorical tricks I suppose.

PDD 51 and The Patriot Acts, warrantless wiretapping? Are they more rhetoric and not real politics?

And a multibillion, probably trillions state bail out of banks in a supposedly capitalist society wouldnt be more of Il Duces "marriage of state and corporation" (i.e fascism in his own words) I suppose.

Is it not real politics unless you deem it so?

Can you recommend a re-education camp for me?
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I said they don't constitute a fascist takeveover - and they don't. I didn't say these polices weren't nasty or harmful did i? I pointed out the exact opposuite in fact, but tried to situate them politically. By real politics i meant a politics based on awareness of what these type of measures represent, what motivates them, and the wider context in which they're taking place - not political paranoia (more of which is displayed in your lats post) and covers of early 80s anarhco-punk LPs.

This sort of crap is why you're tearing your hair out in frustration that no one is listening to you. It's because the 'sheeple' are in advance of you, they know this isn't a fascist takeover, they know govts do nasty things but they know this isn't early 1933 or late 1922. And any opposition to them from the mass of people who know this is going to be put off by bug-eyed loons spouting this OTT rubbish - see the various 911 and 7/7 denial boards and groups for other examples of this 'why won't anyone listen to us[/i] hair-tearing.

Tell you what, outline the character of this fascist takeover, and we'll discuss it.
 
I have outlined some of the characteristics BA, without even going into all the A1 fascists and proto fascist regeimes the CIA have helped establish down the years.

Obviously this aint 1922 or 1933, for one thing the elite have learned a few things since then.

In terms of the US, this is the best case made Ive seen. I would urge anyone to watch it if they have the time

Naomi Wolfe: The End Of America - Letter of Warning To a Young Patriot.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
I have outlined some of the characteristics BA, without even going into all the A1 fascists and proto fascist regeimes the CIA have helped establish down the years.

Obviously this aint 1922 or 1933, for one thing the elite have learned a few things since then.

In terms of the US, this is the best case made Ive seen. I would urge anyone to watch it if they have the time

Naomi Wolfe: The End Of America - Letter of Warning To a Young Patriot.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
Click to expand...

No you haven't. You've given a list of things that i've argued have been and are motivated by aims other than a fascist takeover. Can you undermine those other suggested motivations or can you provide some further evidence of those things you've listed as being part of a planned fascist takeover.

You just can't say that bad things are part of a fascist takeover, then when asked for proof point to the bad things - that's circular.

I suggest you read up on the history of the far-right in Italy post-war as well btw
 
butchersapron said:
No you haven't. You've given a list of things that i've argued have been and are motivated by aims other than a fascist takeover. Can you undermine those other suggested motivations or can you provide some further evidence of those things you've listed as being part of a planned fascist takeover.

You just can't say that bad things are part of a fascist takeover, then when asked for proof point to the bad things - that's circular.

I suggest you read up on the history of the far-right in Italy post-war as well btw
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It s reassuring to know that establishing and backing fascist regeimes and clamping down on freedom are not motivated by any kind of fascist mindset. I mean, why would it be?

You'll be telling us next that Bush won the election above board.

I will read about post war far right for sure BA. Im more aware that Italy was a stronghold of communism in western Europe and about the Gladio false flag ops to discredit the left in the 70s.

Did you watch the vid?
 
I'm on about the MSI and their succesor group(s) long running involvement in electoral activity and municipal politics. The right-bloc has long relied on their MPs (yes, they've had MPs since 1948) votes to maintain their coalitions and has thrown them bones at regular intervals as a result. The current situation is not some lurch into a new fascist future, but a continuation of everyday italian top-down political manouvering.

Nope. I'll give it a go when i geta chance though.
 
butchersapron said:
I'm on about the MSI and their succesor group(s) long running involvement in electoral activity and municipal politics. The right-bloc has long relied on their MPs (yes, they've had MPs since 1948) votes to maintain their coalitions and has thrown them bones at regular intervals as a result. The current situation is not some lurch into a new fascist future, but a continuation of everyday italian top-down political manouvering.

Nope. I'll give it a go when i geta chance though.
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Aint the Northern League pretty fascistic?
 
I'd say they're far-right populists with a range of clashing and contradicatory internal opinions/factions. A not uncommon charateristic of parties of that type.
 
brasicritique said:
seeing as your such an expert on misrepresentation perhaps you can post a link where vegansmac manages not to mention 'conspiraloons' or 'ike':rolleyes:
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Perhaps you could answer my politely-asked query.

Or perhaps you can't because you know that you're talking shite..

I suspect the latter.
 
ViolentPanda said:
Perhaps you could answer my politely-asked query..
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perhaps you could answer mine?

ViolentPanda said:
Or perhaps you can't because you know that you're talking shite...
Click to expand...

Or perhaps i dont need to as it is clealry evident to anyone that browses the boards that vegansmac has made numeros refrences to 'ike' and 'conspiraloons' - as he has on this thread

disagree with vegansmac or el jafa and its all slurs and smears based upon mental illness the trouble is these morons or with what i would call 'old left ideologs ' who are so self rightoeus seemingly condeming all most 'isims' then use the issue of mental illness from which to stifle debate. For example we should all be concerned about the the rise of the far right -yet el jafa, vegansmac and nino and other one line wonders are the best recruiters that the far right could hope for

someone once started athread on griffen and bnp strategy ? they dont need a fucking stargey when you have idiots like the aforementioned supposedly 'liberal/left wing' posters giving the world the benefit of there insight

ViolentPanda said:
I suspect the latter.
Click to expand...

i suspect the cards told you that:rolleyes:
 
brasicritique said:
perhaps you could answer mine?
Click to expand...
Which would that be?
It's hard to tell, given your intermittent use of punctuation.
Or perhaps i dont need to as it is clealry evident to anyone that browses the boards that vegansmac has made numeros refrences to 'ike' and 'conspiraloons' - as he has on this thread
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I bolded that last bit, so everyone notices it.

A couple of points:
1) There's no poster called "vegansmac".
2) Thread search throws up five references to "conspiraloons" on this thread.
Two posted by you, and three posts quoting yours. None by butchersapron.

In my book that makes you a liar.

disagree with vegansmac or el jafa and its all slurs and smears based upon mental illness the trouble is these morons or with what i would call 'old left ideologs ' who are so self rightoeus seemingly condeming all most 'isims' then use the issue of mental illness from which to stifle debate. For example we should all be concerned about the the rise of the far right -yet el jafa, vegansmac and nino and other one line wonders are the best recruiters that the far right could hope for.
Click to expand...
Some more points:
1) Name-calling people that you are accusing of "slurs and smears" is the work of a fool. You undermine any case you might have thought you had.
2) I'd love to see any evidence of the posters you name using "the issue of mental illness to stifle debate".
3) Could you please support your last sentence with any kind of evidence that the people you call "one line wonders" say or do anything that might promote recruitment by the right.

You see, I'd absolutely hate for people to think that you, the great and pure "brasicritique", based their tirades entirely on "slurs and smears".
someone once started athread on griffen and bnp strategy ? they dont need a fucking stargey when you have idiots like the aforementioned supposedly 'liberal/left wing' posters giving the world the benefit of there insight.
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That'd probably be insightful if it made any sense at all.
i suspect the cards told you that:rolleyes:
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What cards?
Is this the latest smear you've constructed, people and cards?

How do you think these things up?
 
To return to the topic, I think that there is a real problem with people of Emily Benn's age standing for Parliament and then becoming MPs.

There are far too many people who are elected as MPs who have never had a job outside the world of party politics, political think-tanks and lobbying. This applies to all the main parties.

People should get real-world experience that they can bring to politics before they can stand for election.
 
aylee said:
To return to the topic, I think that there is a real problem with people of Emily Benn's age standing for Parliament and then becoming MPs.

There are far too many people who are elected as MPs who have never had a job outside the world of party politics, political think-tanks and lobbying. This applies to all the main parties.

People should get real-world experience that they can bring to politics before they can stand for election.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, but the best way for the parties to ensure that they get intakes of polite drones is to "get 'em young". :(
 
aylee said:
To return to the topic, I think that there is a real problem with people of Emily Benn's age standing for Parliament and then becoming MPs. There are far too many people who are elected as MPs who have never had a job outside the world of party politics, political think-tanks and lobbying. This applies to all the main parties.

People should get real-world experience that they can bring to politics before they can stand for election.
Click to expand...

She's 18. There aren't any 18 year olds in Parliament. It would be good if there were. They would know more about schools and being 18 than any other MPs.

What conditions would you add to the present ones? Would you have a mnimum age higher than 18? It was 21 until recently. Would you have a special panel to say who had "enough" life experience to qualify?

Charlie Kennedy was 23 when he got in, and he flew straight from Indiana University where he was studying. The only job he'd had since graduating was a stint with the BBC as a journalist. Yet the electors of Ross, Cromarty and Skye saw fit to vote him in, as to this day do the electors of Ross, Skye and Lochaber. Would you have ruled him out, so that a thirty-something accountant could have stood instead?

Or would you, like me, just leave it up to the electors to decide, by voting in an election?
 
Labour party hack.

Charles kennedy!!Oh no, the argument crumbles.

The fact that the party name did the work is, of course, irrelevant.
 
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