what does emily benn tell us about the state of politics

[butchersapron]

Is that you jesus?

You've spent the last two pages running from my question - what are the shades of grey and what is debatable about whether the protocols are anti-semitic? Post after post of nothing, just avoidance. You'll run away from this one too.

 

[exosculate]

Is that you jesus?

You've spent the last two pages running from my question - what are the shades of grey and what is debatable about whether the protocols are anti-semitic? Post after post of nothing, just avoidance. You'll run away from this one too.

Its tediously boring, it might be interesting if I was advocating that crap, but I'm not. Why are you going on about it?

It has nothing to do with sheeple!

 

[butchersapron]

...and once more another blank post.

I wish you well in dealing with whatever trauma you've suffered recently (some sort of head injury?) and my fingers are crossed that your critical faculties will return in due course so that you'll be able to think and write once more.

 

[exosculate]

...and once more another blank post.

I wish you well in dealing with whatever trauma you've suffered recently (some sort of head injury?) and my fingers are crossed that your critical faculties will return in due course so that you'll be able to think and write once more.

What is blank about it? I just do not agree that saying something about a section of Jewish people is particularly anti semetic, it might or might not be - its a matter of opinion and not a fact. Its just like slagging off the Roman elite or what have you! I think you are being deliberately awkward here. Oh well.

Lefties are just as rigidly ideological and blinkered and sure of right and wrong as neo-liberals - or fascists.......and you are a good case study.

 

[butchersapron]

We're talking about the protocols of the elders of zion, a tract that claims the jews kidnap children for their blood, and all the other usual racist nonsense, not Noam Chomsky, not Norman Finkelstein or any commited political critics of the Israeil state. That you cannot diffrentiate between these is a little worrying. And it undermines your own attacks on others for being ill-inofrmed sheeple. Frankly, it mkaes you look like a dick. A naive, easily duped and easily used dick.

 

[Dr Jon]

sheeple

I can understand why some folk object to this term, but I think it is a valid concept, which is used quite effectively by our manipulators.

For example, if it were not for large numbers of "sheeple" falling for poisonous lies, surely there would be no point or money in advertising? Or politics for that matter...

 

[Bernie Gunther]

<snip> I think she is great.<snip>

Sounds like really good reason not to vote for her to me ...

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I find the whole dynastic thing going on in politics really strange.

It's the lecturing about democracy that annoys, when these people pass on/inherit their positions.

 

[exosculate]

We're talking about the protocols of the elders of zion, a tract that claims the jews kidnap children for their blood, and all the other usual racist nonsense, not Noam Chomsky, not Norman Finkelstein or any commited political critics of the Israeil state. That you cannot diffrentiate between these is a little worrying. And it undermines your own attacks on others for being ill-inofrmed sheeple. Frankly, it mkaes you look like a dick. A naive, easily duped and easily used dick.

You won't win an argument by swearing.

What difference does it make what it is anyway? Its drivel. Surely its not worth discussing? Some of the stuff might be debatably racist, so what. No ones interested in this nonsense.

 

[exosculate]

I can understand why some folk object to this term, but I think it is a valid concept, which is used quite effectively by our manipulators.

For example, if it were not for large numbers of "sheeple" falling for poisonous lies, surely there would be no point or money in advertising? Or politics for that matter...

The problem is the the left won't accept reality, but at the same time they wallow in tiny minority backslapping societies and connect with no one outside in a significant way.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I find the whole dynastic thing going on in politics really strange.

It's the lecturing about democracy that annoys, when these people pass on/inherit their positions.

I think there's some interesting stuff going on there. Something to do with what the marketing people call 'branding' ...

Which of course in today's media-based poltics is far more important than the policies that a candidate actually stands for.

I'd be interested to see a brand analysis of the 'Benn' brand by someone who does that stuff for a living. Any soulless marketing droids (nothing personal, just how I feel about your profession) want to take a crack at it?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Sounds like really good reason not to vote for her to me ...

Och, you're just prejudiced. If it wasn't that, it would be because she's a girl, or because she's young.

But she is sincere, and articulate, and energetic in pursuing what she must know is not a likely winnable seat, and she's a lot more likely to increase the labour vote than a teacher, or a trade union official, or some lawyer. I think she's a wee star.


And I agree that it's not nice to describe hard working families as "sheeple". Stop it right now.

Fascists.

 

[treelover]

I'd be interested to see a brand analysis of the 'Benn' brand by someone who does that stuff for a living. Any soulless marketing droids (nothing personal, just how I feel about your profession) want to take a crack at it?

KS, come on down!

well, ex marketing man, anyway...


btw Bernie, not like you to be churlish, eg sniping at FP,

 

[Bernie Gunther]

No, I'd never heard of her until this thread. I have no idea of her age or appearance. What I do know is that you, Fullyplumped supported Blair, so anyone that you like must be some sort of extremely toxic capitalist rodent/waste of space.

 

[Fullyplumped]

No, I'd never heard of her until this thread. I have no idea of her age or appearance. What I do know is that you, Fullyplumped supported Blair, so anyone that you like must be some sort of extremely toxic capitalist rodent/waste of space.

Here's another young Labour candidate for you to loathe - Claire Hazelgrove is the Labour PPC for Skipton and Ripon. She's 19 and a student at the University of York.

From Kerry McCarthy's blog - she also gives a mention to Chuka Umunna in Streatham and Rachel Reeves in Leeds West - late 20s, the pair of them, but still annoyingly young and enthusiastic. Feel free to moan about them too.

 

[shagnasty]

Doesn't anybody do an training these days that is what is wrong with nu labour none of them as been in an office a factory a shop to work they have no experience of life .An eighteen year old like her should first be a councillor to learn about politics not get it from a book

 

[danny la rouge]

Saying some Jewish people have done bad things is not anti-semetic.

But that doesn't cover what the Protocols is about, does it? You were asked specifically about the Protocols, having said it's debatable whether they're anti Semitic.

What difference does it make what it is anyway? Its drivel. Surely its not worth discussing? Some of the stuff might be debatably racist, so what. No ones interested in this nonsense.

What difference does it make? If people continue to spread that filth, a great deal. If people give it credence, like "it's debatable whether it's anti Semitic", a great deal. "No one's interested"? Funny, then, that people like Icke make use of it.

Some of the stuff might be debatably racist

Get a grip of yourself; it is a racist tract, deliberately so, with the intention of spreading hatred, at a time of pogrom.

You used to make sense. You used even to have the odd incisive insight. What happened?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Exosculate- I am genuinely astounded that you can think that the Protocols are not anti-semetic (either in origin or subsequent useage); could you please either explain yourself or make an appropriate apology (as in 'oops I got carried away' or 'oops I should have done a bit more research')?

Louis MacNeice

 

[newbie]

I think there's some interesting stuff going on there. Something to do with what the marketing people call 'branding' ...

Which of course in today's media-based poltics is far more important than the policies that a candidate actually stands for.

I'd be interested to see a brand analysis of the 'Benn' brand by someone who does that stuff for a living. Any soulless marketing droids (nothing personal, just how I feel about your profession) want to take a crack at it?

We live in an era fascinated by slebs, particularly attention seeking young women with prominent parents- personally I have no interest in the antics of Peaches, Paris and so on, but they sure do get talked about. Here's another one, with a slightly different USP. How much of her spreading fame is conscious dynastic brand building across generations, and how much is down to sleb name recognition and (sorry in bloom) threads like this?

According to wikipedia Benn senior has 10 grandchildren. Coming from a family tradition like theirs or the Churchills it's almost a surprise more of them aren't in politics.

she also gives a mention to Chuka Umunna in Streatham

that's mine that is. I've no idea what his family background is, but he's welcome to replace the current lying, warmongering steaming pile of nulab careerist scum.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The Churchills skipped a generation between Winston Senior and Winston Junior didn't they. But iirc one of Winston Junior's sons is 'in' politics too but not sure what he does.

Winston's dad was MP for Woodstock

Not really surprised at Emily Benn because parliamentary politics is a function of the professional classes for both Labour and Tory alike, and certain professions have a caste-like tinge (notably law and medicine).

That's certainly the case now with Labour, even if it wasn't historically.

It's possible she is really is very bright and able but anyone who thinks family connections have nothing to do with her selection is a mug.

The "novelty value" of her family ties will work for her with selection committees even if nothing else does.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I believe it is you that is confused.

*butchers brain* all alternative views are ickean.........all alternative views are ickean........all alternative views are ickean........*butchers brain*

Rather than indulge in gratuitous insult, why not elucidate exactly how and why you believe him to be confused?

 

[d.a.s.h]

Winston's dad was MP for Woodstock

Ah, thank you for the correction.

Tried to see if any of Lloyd George's descendants went into politics. He had a son, Gwilym, who became a government minister. His only memorable quote seems to have been:

"Politicians are like monkeys. The higher they climb the tree, the more revolting are the parts they expose."

Quite funny imo but it's probably easier to come out with that if you don't have to expend much effort climbing the tree in the first place.

 

[neville]

Emily Benn - Studying Latin, History and Music. Also a supporter of the Gulf War. Calls herself a Benn but not a Bennite according to that fount of all wisdom Wikepedia. Never been out of the education system and is hoping to overturn a 8130 tory majority. Should be interesting to see how her campaign goes.


Wonder why she was selected - surely it is because of her insight into local matters and her ability to debate policies in a mature informed way having experienced the effects of local, national and international events on people. MAybe the history module is very indepth.

Surely an 18 year old student would not be selected for any other reason - woould they?

 

[kyser_soze]

Traditionally the Benn brand has always had a mixed message - a brand of wealth and privilege that has long attempted to market itself as a diffusion range, mainly through the 'Fabian' line of British political philosophy; for many decades this was successful, reaching it's acme in the shape of Tony 'Tony' Benn, who's devotion to being a rich-but-ordinary British man extended to his rejecting the chance to be sold in the 'House Of Lords' emporium.

However, time and fashion move on, and the Benn brand suffered badly during the 1970s, when it's inherent internal contradiction (wanting it's customers to want more than just a diffusion range but unable to stop telling them exactly how and what they needed to do/buy in order to get there), coupled with a dramatic shift in global fashion away from 'left' brands to 'new right' brands, left it floundering like a pair of flares in 1988.

Recently, the brand has been reintroduced with the 'Hilary' line, however, altho this bears the same name, like so many classic British brands it has been reimagined by an external owner, in this case the 'Blairite' meta-brand. Of late there has also been discussion of a kiddie range of Hilary Benn Brand, called the 'Emily' brand, and it's expected that this will once again represent little more than the dilution of a once strong political brand in UK politics, trading on little more than it's name for recognition and easy entry into the salons and clubs of the day...

How's that?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Heh, perfect KS.

Sorry about the soulless droid comment btw, was foully drunk

 

[kyser_soze]

Dunt bother me, there are plenty of 'em!!

 

[brasicritique]

what sheep are we talking about devonshire or wenselydale?

 

[brasicritique]

*butchers brain* all alternative views are ickean.........all alternative views are ickean........all alternative views are ickean........*butchers brain*

 

[brasicritique]

Rather than indulge in gratuitous insult, why not elucidate exactly how and why you believe him to be confused?

and that is almost as funny IMO bucthersmac is suffering not from confusionas he clearlyt belives the nonesense and smears he comes out with no IMO he is suffering from some sort of persecution complex

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

That's not a fascist takeover - not by any strech of a fevered and sick imagination. That's a) a rhetorical trick designed to shore up internal support (and if you knew your history as well as you should you'd know that the Falange were a meaningless fig-leaf with no real power, an ideological fig leaf for simple authoritarian catholocism and social conservatism) b) a typical piece of large scale political opportunism in the anticipated conditons of renewed global tensions Post WW2 3) a commitment to making money not an ideological family commitment to fascism. 4) That's capitalism 5) Ditto 6) that's authoritarianism and politcal playing to the gallery 7) That's major powers seeking to ensure control/supply of potentially scare resources and transport networks in competition with other powers - capitalism.

Come back when you've got some politics.

So, when the new mayor of Rome was greeted by his supporters chanting "Duce" earlier this year, was that a rhetorical trick too? or was it just not "some politics"?

But at least fingerprinting the Romany aint politics is it? That would be a problem. Maybe its just a rhetorical trick too.

I dont think you spoke to Operation Paperclip or Naomi Wolfes talk and strongly founded hypothesis. Nothing political about them, just more rhetorical tricks I suppose.

PDD 51 and The Patriot Acts, warrantless wiretapping? Are they more rhetoric and not real politics?

And a multibillion, probably trillions state bail out of banks in a supposedly capitalist society wouldnt be more of Il Duces "marriage of state and corporation" (i.e fascism in his own words) I suppose.

Is it not real politics unless you deem it so?

Can you recommend a re-education camp for me?