Millennials got a bit fucked as everyone told them things would be straightfoward ie follow the rules ..degree, career, 'jazz hands' etc and everything would work out. Gen Z seem a bit more feisty and mirror the Gen X 'fuck it' attitude..
What do you think about retirement and when will you do it?
- Thread starter RubyBlue
- Start date
Athos
Well-Known Member
Fingers crossed the triple lock continues!
Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
It does, and will go up by 10% in April to £203
I can look forward to getting mine in 2049.
ska invita
back on the other side
aah is that what that is - cool - come on you tories!!
did i hear recently something about being able to take your state pension early? maybe its a proposal....
Athos
Well-Known Member
I don't think you can get it early.aah is that what that is - cool - come on you tories!!
did i hear recently something about being able to take your state pension early? maybe its a proposal....
ska invita
back on the other side
i think someone is proposing this, possibly Labour even... anyhow not worth thinking about unless it happens
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
There is a suggestion that the terminally ill be allowed to take their state pension early. Don't know how likely it is to happen.aah is that what that is - cool - come on you tories!!
did i hear recently something about being able to take your state pension early? maybe its a proposal....
Athos
Well-Known Member
If it came in, you can be sure it'd be a massive penalty for taking it early. If anything, the direction of travel is the other way - is getting later and later.
Thora
Differently Ethical
Guess you'd have to try to take a mortgage holiday, or eventually sell if you can't make the payments.
The only way you can get the government to pay your mortgage is by becoming a landlord.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Id think VERY carefully (and take advice) re 4. Not only because I wouldn't want to be a landlord on moral grounds, as well as it being grief. But also because it might not be the best bet, financially, given all the hidden costs and the significant tax implications.My pension situation ain’t great! If I work another 13y I’ll get full state, plus whatever I get of my NHS as I’ve only got a decade of contributions so far in that.
These are my contingencies:
1. One of my lads makes a fortune. Ya never know!
2. I’m still with Mr Millionaire. Ya never know that either!
3. I LOVE my job and it’s definitely amenable to stepping down/ private practice/ reduced hours so I very much hope I continue working in some way til the end because it gives my life meaning and purpose
4. I’m gonna invest in a BtL as soon as I’ve saved the deposit. The rent off this, once the capital is paid off, will supplement my piss poor pension
So that’s the plan!
I really don’t get the moral objections, investing in stocks & shares is no better or worse is it? But this isn’t the thread for it. Property seems like a pretty solid bet to me. Get it paid off in 15-20 years, then you have an asset that you can leave your kids that also pays you out every month.
What’s the alternative, shoving it all in a stocks and shares ISA?
Thanks for the warning tho. Who would I get advice from?
muscovyduck
Good IT skills and food hygiene competent
Financial advisor, most will do a free consultation. If you're seriously considering BTL bring along as much solid detail about what that would look like as possible - ie would you be buying a new build? Victorian house? What's the rent yield? Would you be managing it yourself? etc
I agree with Athos that it's a bad bet btw, although agree with you that intuitively it would seem like a good idea. But also kind of agree what you're saying from a moral perspective (and agree this isn't the thread for it)
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
Housing Benefit is now a legacy benefit , no new claims . Help with rent is now called the rent element of Universal Credit. I'm not sure what the new rules on help with mortgage costs are.
Hollis
bloody furious
A load of people seem to be getting out of buy-to-let now. Not only have the tax breaks been gradually eroded over the years, but now with higher interest rates it's far harder to actually make money out of it.
Anecdotally, I've two mates wtih rental properties - one kind of by circumstance, and the other by choice.. Both seem to have loads of hassle with tenents and stuff.
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
Possibly , but the fact that it exists still fucks me off . My degree was fully funded , I got a grant, I got Housing Benefit , I graduated with an overdraft of about £800 (mostly down to lager tbh)
Athos
Well-Known Member
The moral objection is that by exploiting a basic human need for shelter landlords create precarity and poverty. But leaving that aside, you should speak to an IFA. A pension is likely to be better than an ISA, as you get tax relief.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Me too. Youngsters today can't belie that I got a grant. Not only were there no tuition fees, but they have me money to cover my living costs etc.
muscovyduck
Good IT skills and food hygiene competent
Most BTLs are making a loss long term because while they're meeting the mortgage and making enough renovations to keep tenants in, the large majority of them are neglecting things like damp control, roofing issues, etc which are bills that grow at an exponential rate. That's part the reason the UK housing stock is so bad.
I've calculated everything on the place I'm renting for example, and even assuming they paid off the mortgage before my tenancy began 5 years ago, they'll have made a loss on my tenancy. First there's letting agent fees which eat in to a good % every month, then there's the damage to the roof and the damage it's doing to the house. If the damp from the roof is so bad it's down into the main house god knows how rotten the beams are. While I've lived here the neighbours (same letting agents) have assaulted me because the letting agents didn't nip the problem in the bud, which I believe will come up on a survey if the landlord tries to sell, as will the easement dispute the letting agents have allowed to open. There's also rising damp, the stairs to the basement have rotted away, the shed is falling apart. One contractor working on something else indicated they believe there's a structural issue developing with the house too.
That's not including the things the landlord has actually sorted or has indicated they intend on sorting - refitting the kitchen (which will be ruined by the damp they won't fix), the bathroom (2 years old and already ruined by damp), the flooring, cosmetic work outdoors. The boiler and heating system is an ongoing problem and they've probably spent more fixing it than just replacing it.
All that just while I've been here - and I'm a model tennant. This isn't a bad house either. It's just very very easy for things to spiral if you're a landlord and you don't have the luxury of going "oh that's fine I can live with it for another 6 months" because it's not you living with it. So you end up having to get a loan to renovate the bathroom which means you can't sort the underlying damp problem
I've calculated everything on the place I'm renting for example, and even assuming they paid off the mortgage before my tenancy began 5 years ago, they'll have made a loss on my tenancy. First there's letting agent fees which eat in to a good % every month, then there's the damage to the roof and the damage it's doing to the house. If the damp from the roof is so bad it's down into the main house god knows how rotten the beams are. While I've lived here the neighbours (same letting agents) have assaulted me because the letting agents didn't nip the problem in the bud, which I believe will come up on a survey if the landlord tries to sell, as will the easement dispute the letting agents have allowed to open. There's also rising damp, the stairs to the basement have rotted away, the shed is falling apart. One contractor working on something else indicated they believe there's a structural issue developing with the house too.
That's not including the things the landlord has actually sorted or has indicated they intend on sorting - refitting the kitchen (which will be ruined by the damp they won't fix), the bathroom (2 years old and already ruined by damp), the flooring, cosmetic work outdoors. The boiler and heating system is an ongoing problem and they've probably spent more fixing it than just replacing it.
All that just while I've been here - and I'm a model tennant. This isn't a bad house either. It's just very very easy for things to spiral if you're a landlord and you don't have the luxury of going "oh that's fine I can live with it for another 6 months" because it's not you living with it. So you end up having to get a loan to renovate the bathroom which means you can't sort the underlying damp problem
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
TBF I started full time work at 16 and chopped that pension into my main one.It’s mad when you think about it, that if you retire at 55, first 18 years you probably didn’t work, 55-80 is 25 years of not working supported by 37 years of working. That’s a fucking good deal
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
Another disadvantage of BTL at the moment is that profit margins are so razor thin, that any gap in tenancy or cease in payments due to the precarity of tenants' ability to pay quickly means that the landlord has to use their own money to meet mortgage repayments.
Plus everything people have already said about the morality of profiting off people's basic human need for shelter.
Plus everything people have already said about the morality of profiting off people's basic human need for shelter.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Well I'm in my late 20s so I'll come back in 40 years and let you all know
I would suspect that if you are communicating with me in forty years, it will be via a medium.
Yes, my pension will go up 10%, effectively 8% as a fifth will go in tax.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Nah, landlords are responsible for over-inflating house prices which results in people living precariously and not having a chance to own a home, which means them spending more of their income on housing.I honestly think your all kidding yourself that your ISAs and pensions are invested more ethically than renting a flat out to a young professional, but whatever
But leaving that aside, most people who understand these things reckon you've missed the boat by a good few years. It'd be easy to get burned by making BTL your retirement plan.
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Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
Housing isn’t an asset as much as a liability. There’s an accounting term called dilapidations which IIRC is to do with property. To do with leases being handed back I think. If you’re a property owner you should be aware that maintaining your liability to a decent standard costs time and money!
Also having a buy to let is like only buying shares in one company in an ISA.
So if there’s a void, you have 0% of your expected income. And be fucked.
If you were investing in 1000 buy to let properties which each give an equal income (hypothetically) then you can wear perhaps 10% voids at a given time as you’ll have 90% of your income. And won’t be fucked.
Also having a buy to let is like only buying shares in one company in an ISA.
So if there’s a void, you have 0% of your expected income. And be fucked.
If you were investing in 1000 buy to let properties which each give an equal income (hypothetically) then you can wear perhaps 10% voids at a given time as you’ll have 90% of your income. And won’t be fucked.
Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
I would have thought that as a veteran of Spion Kop you might get your pension paid tax freeI would suspect that if you are communicating with me in forty years, it will be via a medium.
Yes, my pension will go up 10%, effectively 8% as a fifth will go in tax.
smmudge
i know the smudge is true
You can get 'help' from the govt for mortgage interest only, on up to £200k worth of mortgage and for a limited time, can't remember how long it's paid, maybe a couple of years and only pays out once you've been unemployed for umm 39 weeks? but it's a loan, it's paid back when the house is sold.
BtL as an investment is pretty risky and probably the most illiquid investment you could make. And some more regulations in the pipeline that landlords won't like (good). Think there's a rental crisis at the mo for a reason.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Yeah, I wouldn't bother with BTL - it's a great deal of hassle, it's subject to the whims and fancies of ever changing politics, and of course if no one wants to buy it when you want to sell, you're stuck with it...
Lots of BTL 'professionals' are getting out - the gains to be made simply aren't there, it's all too marginal, and with each new piece of legislation it becomes more of a job, with less profit.
We've bought #1 a flat while she's at uni - she's got a couple of flatmates who together pay most of the mortgage, and if we hadn't bought the flat she'd simply be renting off someone else, but it's a pain, and it's not something we're champing at the bit to continue when she finishes.
Lots of BTL 'professionals' are getting out - the gains to be made simply aren't there, it's all too marginal, and with each new piece of legislation it becomes more of a job, with less profit.
We've bought #1 a flat while she's at uni - she's got a couple of flatmates who together pay most of the mortgage, and if we hadn't bought the flat she'd simply be renting off someone else, but it's a pain, and it's not something we're champing at the bit to continue when she finishes.
muscovyduck
Good IT skills and food hygiene competent
It's even just simple stuff like getting someone in to do work that needs doing - it's one thing when you're getting messed around at home by some contractor who won't turn up when they say they will but if they do that to your tenant you're going to end up in court dealing with an injunction. Also, any landlord insurance that actually covers stuff like malicious damage costs >£500 per year so that's another bill to factor in.
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