West Norwood news, chitter chatter and gossip

[WNAK]

I don't agree. If Lambeth has the money to build a new indoor pool then it should adjoin the Brockwell Lido. The economies of scale would be massive, and it's only a 15 minute walk away from West Norwood. A combined indoor/outdoor pool would make it one of the best in South London. If the choice is between coucil sevices being better or closer then I want them better.

15min walk? Are you getting that tulse hill/west norwood boundary confused again?!

 

[clandestino]

It might not be great news for you - but it's great news for West Norwood.

I agree. Brixton has plenty of fantastic things - the rec, the lido, Brockwell Park itself, to name just three - whereas WN has none of these things. Norwood Park is half way to Crystal Palace, so it doesn't seem to act as a social centre for WN in the way that Brockwell does for Brixton. So the building of this leisure centre isn't just about providing a new swimming pool and a health centre for the area, it feels like it could be the centre piece of the area's regeneration. It's a good thing for an area that deserves a break, I reckon.

 

[clandestino]

Info:

The planned leisure centre includes a 25m swimming pool, dance studio and 100 station gym with a community meeting space. The health centre will have a GP practice, clinics and dentists. There will also be a Lambeth council customer service area . For more details see:

http://westnorwood.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/new-hurdle-for-leisure-health-centre/

 

[nagapie]

Where's Lambeth getting the money from

 

[gaijingirl]

It's been in the pipeline for ages - I had assumed they would have scrapped it - but who knows how they allocate what stays and what goes? I suppose they have different pots of money for different purposes but I have no idea if some are ring fenced, for example?

 

[WNAK]

Where's Lambeth getting the money from

From the lambeth website:

In January 2011 central government formally endorsed £14.2 million of Private Finance Initiative (PFI) credits towards state-of-the-art services at Norwood Hall. So PFI funding to the scheme will remain subject to approval of the council’s final business case.

 

[gaijingirl]

a sensible answer.. ignore my ramblings!

 

[nagapie]

It still doesn't really add up. Why would central government want to put some money into the PFI pot for a poor inner city area that votes Labour. Maybe a Tory stands to make some big money out of it.

 

[WNAK]

It still doesn't really add up. Why would central government want to put some money into the PFI pot for a poor inner city area that votes Labour. Maybe a Tory stands to make some big money out of it.

Much needed regeneration? The plans have been in the pipeline for a long time and before the election. The constituency is due to be completely chopped up so i can't see how this is aimed at being a vote winning or political scheme.

 

[nagapie]

I don't really think it's about vote winning. But I still don't see why they would care about regeneration when they are plunging loads of people and thus areas into poverty.

Maybe I'm just too cynical.

 

[WNAK]

I don't really think it's about vote winning. But I still don't see why they would care about regeneration when they are plunging loads of people and thus areas into poverty.

Maybe I'm just too cynical.

Maybe i am too optimistic.

Hmm not sure a forum on what west norwood is like is the best place to get me started on arguments about plunging people into poverty...

 

[clandestino]

From the website of the company that's doing the work:

A landmark development that will provide modern leisure and health facilities in the London Borough of Lambeth has become the first major project to be council-procured through the LIFT (Local Improvement Finance Trust) initiative. Granted planning approval, the £16.5 million Norwood Hall Joint Service Centre will be the first council service-led facility to be delivered by developer Building Better Health.

Following the outstanding success of a previous joint service development at Gracefield Gardens, Streatham, where Lambeth PCT (Primary Care Trust) lead a close collaboration with the council to deliver Lambeth's first neighbourhood resource centre, the council chose to use LIFT to procure the redevelopment of Norwood Hall.

Norwood Hall Joint Service Centre will be delivered by Building Better Health, Lambeth PCT''s LIFT partner, as part of a £30 million programme of LIFT projects in Lambeth, Southwark and Lewisham. These aim to improve the facilities and services available to local residents, providing patients with modern healthcare services in high quality primary care premises. Unlike the other schemes, the Norwood Hall project is unique in so much as it is being led by the council rather than the PCT, and leisure facilities will be the scheme's main focus, complemented by health facilities.

Designed by architects Allford Hall Monaghan Morris, the new four storey building will provide a state-of-the-art customer service centre, as well as community and health services. These include a 25 metre swimming pool, a large health and fitness suite and gym, dance studio, community meeting rooms, GP and dentistry services and a broad range of NHS community health facilities offering a range of services and activities for all ages.

"We are delighted that Norwood Hall has received planning permission. This important new community project will contribute greatly to the ongoing regeneration of West Norwood as well as providing essential health services to the wider community." said Morag Tait, Associate Director at Allford Hall Monaghan Morris. "We are proud to play a part in this important project and now look forward to working towards to building opening and being enjoyed by the local community."

Awarded £14.2 million of Private Finance Initiative funds by Central Government, the development, a key project in the regeneration of West Norwood town centre, will see the creation of a brand new centre, set within a vastly improved landscaped, on what is currently the site of a disused community centre on Knight's Hill.

Sustainability has been a vital element in the project's conception and design and will remain a priority throughout the construction process. In addition to improved local services housed within the new high performance building, existing 'poor quality' green spaces will be enhanced with the creation of a new woodland area. With the aim to utilise and enhance the local environment - whilst having a minimal impact on the surrounding area - nature conversation, biodiversity and waste management will play a key role at the redevelopment of Norwood Hall in addition to low energy use and the creation of new community facilities.

Testimony to Building Better Health's innovative approach, the scheme will bring together different community groups and provide a substantial range of important facilities in one building. With the project taking shape, it demonstrates the ability for private and public sectors to work together in harmony to deliver a project of huge benefit to its community.

When completed, Norwood Hall Joint Service Centre will provide residents of West Norwood and the London Borough of Lambeth with modern, high quality facilities that will help to revitalise the area and maximise its currently underused potential..

http://www.buildingbetterhealth.co.uk/project/26/

 

[Athos]

I've been to every single B&Qwithin the M25

That has to be one of the best boasts ever!

 

[Miss-Shelf]

That has to be one of the best boasts ever!

how do we know this? could you give a rating and a little bio for each one, hmm?

What about the one on Leytonstonne high road - that was pretty shit?

 

[Miss-Shelf]

also, what about west norwood drinks anyone?

 

[London_Calling]

If Lambeth has the money to build a new indoor pool then it should adjoin the Brockwell Lido. The economies of scale would be massive

What economies of scale?

 

[Laughing Toad]

What economies of scale?

The two pools would only need one receptionist between them instead of two, one life-guard supervisor instead of two, one big chlorinating machine instead of two. Things like that.

 

[London_Calling]

You'd make redundant the existing machine at the lido and buy a bigger one that the West Norwood pool would need. Life guards don't have a 'supervisor', they have a senior lifeguard among themselves and the facility has a manager. The lido employs different numbers of reception staff at different times of the day - to reflect busy and quiet periods.

Not looking "massive" yet...

 

[Nanker Phelge]

also, what about west norwood drinks anyone?

That'd be no then.

 

[gaijingirl]

I think the idea of building another pool alongside the existing lido is a bit pie-in-the-sky anyway. When the current lido was done up, there was a lot of protest and as it's a listed building, great care had to be taken to move the current wall, save the bricks (I actually have a "souvenir" original lido brick!") and rebuild it in such a way that it didn't detract from the original beauty of the building.

Building another pool would likely take some of the park land - which would be unpopular and also I think they'd find it very difficult to do whilst still maintaining the original building. I just can't see it happening really. The facilities there are fantastic whilst facilties in other areas of the borough are lacking - especially since the Streatham pool closed - there is no pool in the southern reaches - whilst Brixton already has two.

As I said previously, I live within spitting distance of the lido and as a morning swimmer I've often wished I could swim there over winter, so obv it would be to my benefit to have another pool there - but I think it's a slightly selfish sentiment. I used to use Streatham pool for my winter morning swims instead - but that, of course is no longer.

I honestly don't see how an indoor and outdoor pool would share a lifeguard - there has to be a number of lifeguards present per lane that is open to swimming - that's why sometimes, at quiet times, a limited number of lanes are available at the lido. Opening a whole other pool would mean hiring more lifeguards, whether it's at Brockwell or in W. Norwood. If anything, I imagine it would be cheaper just to heat the existing pool and I've been to numerous presentations where that's been shown to be impractical.

 

[snowy_again]

As an aside, if they built a second pool at Brockwell Park, Fusion would be involved, and therefore it would be generally rubbish.

 

[London_Calling]

Fwiw, I have a little trouble lumping the Rec pool and the lido together because they are such different experiences.

From what I see, excepting the 20 or so super-sunny days each year, the pool (at the lido) whilst *iconic* is by far the least used of the facilities there, and probably the most expensive to maintain and run. If you take the Windrush Triathlon Club out of the equation ... I get the impression people love the idea of the lido far more than they use it.

The gym and cafe are far busier, and the numerous classes (morning, afternoon, evening..) are actually the heart of the place (and of the business model, as well), imo.

 

[Ms Ordinary]

I've heard there are plans to keep the Lido open over winter - not this year because of cleaning but maybe next. It's already open from April to October which is pretty good.

It would be madness to build an indoor pool next to the Lido, there's nowhere to put it.
If West Norwood is really only 15 minutes walk from the Lido (which it isn't) then it makes as just as much sense for people too far from the Rec to go there instead.

 

[gaijingirl]

There has been petitions to keep the Lido open for winter swimming (which I have signed) in the same way that Tooting keeps their open - although I don't know if it will require a specific winter swimming membership (as Tooting does).

The Lido was redeveloped to include the gym because it was becoming more and more difficult to justify keeping the Lido open on its summer takings alone. The compromise was that the gym etc would open in order to subsidise and allow the lido to continue to function. Previous to that it had been under threat of closure for as long as I can remember. Every summer at the end of the season we'd be unsure whether it would be around the following year.

 

[snowy_again]

Fwiw, I have a little trouble lumping the Rec pool and the lido together because they are such different experiences.

From what I see, excepting the 20 or so super-sunny days each year, the pool (at the lido) whilst *iconic* is by far the least used of the facilities there, and probably the most expensive to maintain and run. If you take the Windrush Triathlon Club out of the equation ... I get the impression people love the idea of the lido far more than they use it.

Swimming pools are inherently expensive. I read something the other day about the Queen Mum pool and proposed new one in Vauxhall which mentioned that the the true cost of each visit is something like £12. It still seems to have enough people using it regularly over the summer, in addition to the sunny heaving days.

 

[London_Calling]

Today is a good example of the lido pool in action; about 20 people in the water and several hundred sunbathing around the sides of whom, I presume, many will have the occasional dip.

Contrast with a conventional indoor pool where everyone is there for a very specific reason and there's no hanging around.

 

[snowy_again]

I'm not sure what you're arguing, but then it's a hot friday and afternoon and I want to be out of the office.

Today's lido people are still paying and still using the pool. Probably spending longer time there than someone visiting the Rec for a more 'health orientated' dip, and they're paying more for the privilege. Besides you get told off if you do anything remotely non swimming at the rec; I've almost been thrown out for doing handstands.

The current lido use may reflect the seasonal nature of its use - it takes time to build up the regulars again after each winter closure.

 

[happyshopper]

I have to admit that my initial response to this thread was to wonder what's it to do with Brixton? However having been forced to go to WN to get rid of my garden rubbish and to visit B&Q, I have to report that it's all happening there today.

See http://westnorwood.spacemakers.org.uk/market

 

[Orang Utan]

i like it in west norwood. mostly a friendly and neighbourly place.
lots of shops and mini supermarkets. the co-op is great for heavily discounted orange stickered processed fodder.
only one butchers, which is a halal. one cheap veg stall next to the co-op.
not a bad place if you're skint.
i've been loitering about the cemetery a bit too. amazing place.

 

[Athos]

I don't like West Norwood, last time I went there I was creeped out by a wierdo who was hanging around the cemetery with a bag of manky veg, and a past-its-sell-by-date Ginsters pasty.