Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Weird planes

Here's a perfect storm of bad ideas: the Shorts P17D.

2393a2e47445e218_1371382263_9j-4aaqsk.jpeg


A 56 engined vertical lift platform intended to complement the TSR.2.
 
"Now pay attention 007 - it looks like a fighter jet, but it's actually a giant toilet for flushing trillions of dollars (American) down".

You have to look at more than just the platform cost. Eg.. To learn how to hover the Harrier used to be 13 simulator sessions followed by 13 instructed flights in the T-bird - which was so underpowered we could only fly them at 4:30am during the baking heat of the East Anglian summer. Learning how to hover the F-35B is one simulator session and one qualification flight.
 
You have to look at more than just the platform cost. Eg.. To learn how to hover the Harrier used to be 13 simulator sessions followed by 13 instructed flights in the T-bird - which was so underpowered we could only fly them at 4:30am during the baking heat of the East Anglian summer. Learning how to hover the F-35B is one simulator session and one qualification flight.
Well normally I'd defer to your expert knowledge, but I find it improbable that these alleged savings on training can balance the amounts that have already been pissed away on this "F35".
 
"Now pay attention 007 - it looks like a fighter jet, but it's actually a giant toilet for flushing trillions of dollars (American) down".

It has just been admitted that the F35B internal bomb bay is too small for the some of the munitions it was supposed to carry. Redesign ahoy.

Maybe someone got their metric and imperial confused. Again. :rolleyes:
 
It has just been admitted that the F35B internal bomb bay is too small for the some of the munitions it was supposed to carry. Redesign ahoy.

Maybe someone got their metric and imperial confused. Again. :rolleyes:

The SDB II wasn't designed until 2007 so how could the F-35B (designed in 1996-2000) possibly have anticipated what the packaging requirements in the bay would be?
 
The SDB II wasn't designed until 2007 so how could the F-35B (designed in 1996-2000) possibly have anticipated what the packaging requirements in the bay would be?

The SDB I (programme officially started August 2001) is wider (and longer) than the II and is also supposed (intended) to be carried by the F35B (and A, C). I guess they can always shove them on external pylons though obviously that'll affect flight performance and increase the RCS. If you wanted to give the aircraft a decent lifetime/tempt 'customers' I'd have thought planning for handling the dimensions of contemporaneous weapons systems would at the very least provide for an advantageous range of future options (both from operational and sales perspectives)...

e2a: doubtless they'll find a way to lash on whatever is needed/asked for.
 
The SDB I (programme officially started August 2001) is wider (and longer) than the II and is also supposed (intended) to be carried by the F35B (and A, C).

SBD I and SDB II are completely different products - one Raytheon and the other Boeing. The fault, if there is any, probably lies with the SDB II program not being fully aware of the B's bay geometry. However, it's entirely possible they knew and someone took a view that it was cheaper/less risk to move the hydraulic hose in the B bay rather than design SDB II around it.
 
re: F35 - quite why anyone thinks a plane like this has a use in a future that will be dominated by drones, I don't know. ofc, I'd rather no death machines were built at all but hey.

There is no current UAS that can do strike/CAS missions in contested airspace nor any immediate prospect of one. The JSF program is now almost 20 years old and was conceived before the rise of the drone...
 
re: F35 - quite why anyone thinks a plane like this has a use in a future that will be dominated by drones, I don't know. ofc, I'd rather no death machines were built at all but hey.
If you think about it in the highest level terms, successful military aircraft projects have taken a very long time to reach maturity, and then remained in service for a very long time; so for instance Tornado had its roots in the mid to late 60s, and that's to say nothing of the B-52 which might eventually - and ironically - outlive pretty much every single person alive at its inception.

So, why should that pattern change dramatically just because you've potentially simplified some of the requirements, i.e. no need to lug a meat sack about the place any more? That is, bringing a drone-piloted JSF equivalent to properly useful operational service will take a very long time, and isn't automatically supplanted by anything else, like consumer kit is.

Hence you generally keep on plodding on with whatever you were previously doing, in this case something from the late 90s, in spite of it being apparently somewhat stupid, because the alternatives are bigger delays and a bigger waste of money.

All that said, I think JSF is crap.

Also, the real future would appear to be autonomous drones, so why would you invest heavily in piloted drones when etc etc?
 
So, why should that pattern change dramatically just because you've potentially simplified some of the requirements, i.e. no need to lug a meat sack about the place any more? That is, bringing a drone-piloted JSF equivalent to properly useful operational service will take a very long time, and isn't automatically supplanted by anything else, like consumer kit is.

I would hazard a guess that that depends on how fast the Chinese 'innovate' in this particular field :p
 
Would these have been so cool it would have been worth everyone in a city being deaf?

Fairey_Rotodyne_2.jpg
 
Blue Gemini. USAF not NASA. Never flew in space but would have come back on a paraglider.

paraglider%2006.jpg


3732761358_b13e25c959.jpg


gemini-paraglider.jpg
 
qsra-1426702007392.jpg


Short-Haul Research Aircraft (QSRA), developed by Boeing and NASA Ames in the 1980s, which mounted its engines on top of its wings to convert engine exhaust into lift:

The QSRA operated with about 10% of the length of runway that a typical airliner would use, and could get airborne at a speed of just 80 mph, only about 50% of the takeoff speed of an aircraft of its size. The top-mounted engines also had the pleasant side-effect of making the aircraft 90% quieter than similar transports.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/...ewest-xplane-will-fly-with-18-electric-motors
 
Russians have done a few with over wing engines meant they could operate on very rough strips.

Iirc Honda jet has weird placed engines, and while I can't remember now what they said the reason was, remember I wasn't convinced
 
Russians have done a few with over wing engines meant they could operate on very rough strips.

The An-72 (basically a Boeing C-14 copy) engine placement is to develop lift via the Coanda effect rather than obviate the probability of FOD. It does have good rough strip perfomance though due to its agricultural main gear.
 
I would hazard a guess that that depends on how fast the Chinese 'innovate' in this particular field :p

This.

Drones may cause their operators several issues for offensive purposes, but for defensive? It's really only the USA that has to worry about the psychological scarring of its drone operatiors when projecting force on a country half a world away. All manner of issues (particularly latency) disappear if you think about fairly local, defensive usage.
 
My brother did a S92 charter out of Battersea the other year, you could hear it coming 5miles away

helicopters are inherently noisy

what did for the rotodyne was the fact it used tip jets to power the rotor when operating as a helicopter meaning it was ridiculously painfully loud
 
Back
Top Bottom