Hmmm, I Wonder about the humanity of people who take young children for a long day in Central London, see lots of masked people, lots of whom are getting pissed, associated loud music, and numerous scuffles and think to themselves "Lovely, we'll pitch the pram here then"
Weds 1st April: G20 protests - discussion, reaction and chat
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Hmmm, I Wonder about the humanity of people who take young children for a long day in Central London, see lots of masked people, lots of whom are getting pissed, associated loud music, and numerous scuffles and think to themselves "Lovely, we'll pitch the pram here then"
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Here we go again. That climate camp was not full of pissed up black bloc types no matter how much you want it to have been. Read some of the many eyewitness accounts scattered throughout this thread; the only thing creating a child-unfriendly atmosphere was the horrendous actions of the police.
There weren't 'numerous scuffles' either. Lots and lots of people, urbanites and others, have referred to the climate camp as one of the fluffiest, most peaceful demonstrations they've ever witnessed. You are quite simply talking shit. But I understand why you're talking shit, because if you don't make up bullshit about 'troublemakers' and bottlings and violence then the police suddenly look like a shower of nasty, violent bastards. And I can understand why that realisation would be hard for you to handle and why you're clutching at straws to avoid it.
Oh right. So not going to address the responsibility or otherwise of taking children to an all day political protest with associated and well known hazards then?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
There wasn't any hazard until the police piled in without warning.
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
the button
out on the kocker
Would you list the police among those well-known hazards?
editor
hiraethified
Unlike you, I was at the demo and you're full of shit.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Perhaps they expected they'd be able to take their children home if things went a bit nasty. No chance of that as it turned out, letting them leave would have been dangerous and irresponsible. For some reason.
editor
hiraethified
Indeed:
So what you are saying is that perhaps they had considered the chance that things might get nasty and took them anyways? nice
A small percentage of people wore masks, very few were pissed. Most people were there by 11.30 and the local shops weren't selling alcohol, although you had no access to shops anyway. There were a few sound systems yet non were in any way overly loud, in fact the loudest music i heard was the brass band playing 'show me the way to go home' to some snarling police. As for your first point, for many people it wasn't supposed to be a long day, i was supposed to be meeting some old friends in south london at 3pm for a drink!
There were a few keen to have a confrontation but without the police and their aggression children could have been there in 100% safety.
the button
out on the kocker
Mind you, looking at the G20 climate camp's programme for the day on their website here: -
http://climatecamp.org.uk/g20/events
they were planning a meditation guided by the Network of Engaged Buddhists at 6pm. That could easily have turned into a bloodbath.
http://climatecamp.org.uk/g20/events
they were planning a meditation guided by the Network of Engaged Buddhists at 6pm. That could easily have turned into a bloodbath.
Of course they could have. Cos these events always end peacefully don't they? Personally I would have left the kids with a friend before mounting my political protest, prior to going to the pub, but maybe that's just me.
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
Or maybe they worked out that the Bank of England protest wasnt appropriate for children, but that a fluffy hippified sitdown in the street complete with childrens area and prior police liaison would be and didnt expect riot police to charge in with batons at the ready.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
How about we come at this question from another angle. Let's assume that every parent who brought a child with them to climate camp knew, with 100% certainty, that the event would disentegrate into a bloodbath. Poor show from the parents I'll give you that. But by denying the parents the chance to take their kids home the police were punishing children for the negligence of their parents. Strikes me as twisting the knife a bit to be honest, I mean not only do these kids have parents utterly determined to put them in harm's way at all costs, but the police are denying them their god-goven right to flee and take refuge at the nearest available orphanage under an assumed name.
I mean, you're dammed if you do and 'you don't' isn't an option. A pretty crummy situation for a small child to be put it do you not think?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Well I guess you have greater insight into the possibility of police violence.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I'm willing to bet you don't actually have kids. Nobody who did would put forth the opinion that any who, through no fault of their own, found themselves in a police cordon were fair game.
Through no fault of their own???
Let's see. Mass protest advertised, gone bad numerous times before Mayday, J18 et all, large number of police likely to be there, well known that some people would turn up to kick off, now shall I call a rocket scientist or use some common sense??
Mind you I'll never cease at the stupidity of parents. Nottinghill, I wear hearing protectors cos the noise is so loud... two year olds in prams, no protection what so ever. New Years Eve, "Officer how do I go about pushing my two year old through this mass drunken crowd in his/her pram?.. at 12am in the morning.
Well maybe naivity played a part. I whole-heartedly thought that i would be able to provide some support for the protest and hopefully get to know some people with similar views, following that get on with my day and have a reunion with some old pals.
Before the event i would have been happy taking the kids, having experienced it then no, i wouldn't. I guess i am a naive villager but i honestly didn't know the police could detain you without suspicion of an offence having been commited. I have since read up on past events i.e the May Day protest years ago. I would have been devestated to have had children with me and trying to explain why they couldn't have a drink or go to the toilet.
the button
out on the kocker
From the bit I've put in bold, it looks like the answer to my question earlier on in the thread (post 1806) is "Yes."
Hopefully they could of had a drink because you would have had the sense to bring ample supplies with you.. Or not like numerous others who pitch up with nothing for a days protest
In central London i usually expect to be able to purchase luxuries such as water. I wasn't there for a days protest.
Cos shops in the financial district were always likely to stay open in such circumstances weren't they
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Cos shops in the financial district were always likely to stay open in such circumstances weren't they
The climate change people organised food and gave clear instructions about provisions on their website.
Good which means the "We were kept without food and water for ages" argument is a bit of a red sympathy vote herring...
Cos shops in the financial district were always likely to stay open in such circumstances weren't they
They did stay open, there were many shops open once i escaped, the only thing they weren't selling was alcohol and i understand that. I take it you weren't even in the vicinity? The poor chap that died came from a local newsagents, there was a sainsbury's arond the corner trading as normal!
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Their prior organisation was thwarted though, wasn't it? Because nobody could get in with any more supplies.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
There's a Tesco in Bishopsgate, and an M&S in Liverpool St stn to name just two.
Which is a bit of a mute point I suppose since climate camp fed and watered everyone and the portable toilets that people can be seen being evicted from on the video would have helped too. I'm glad that the gitmo type conditions that are alluded too weren't as bad as all that
I really don't understand your point? the portable toilets were outside of the 'kettle', police advised me to find a spot out of their sight to urinate, if they could see me it was an £80 fine.
Not sure what you mean with your comments about the climate camp either? There were thousands of people, Jesus would have struggled, pretty sure he was given water to turn into wine.
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