I just mailed them pointing out a few things I'd seen, asking them to raise the general issues of numbers and tactics, and to consider what it would do to police-community relations in London if they behaved like this on a regular basis.
Weds 1st April: G20 protests - discussion, reaction and chat
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I just mailed them pointing out a few things I'd seen, asking them to raise the general issues of numbers and tactics, and to consider what it would do to police-community relations in London if they behaved like this on a regular basis.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Was there anything the organisers of yesterdays protests could have done to make the life of the police easier?
I mean really, after the Oxford Circus debacle you arrange to protest in the narrowest, most easily controlled part of the entire city . . . not only that, but you start from 4 different points to do it!
WTF.
I mean really, after the Oxford Circus debacle you arrange to protest in the narrowest, most easily controlled part of the entire city . . . not only that, but you start from 4 different points to do it!
WTF.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Publishing the routes in advance does seem a trifle daft. If it was down to me it's be a case of 'meet in London at noon' at a location to be drawn out of a hat twenty minutes before showtime.
Struwwelpeter
Earthling
In Queen Victoria Street there were missiles thrown (yesterday the BBC website said "launched" FFS) after the kettling and pushing had been started by the police. They included beer cans - one person told me they were full but I didn't see any full ones. Most of the missiles were empty plastic water bottles and apple cores.
I cannot speak for what occurred elsewhere, but at QVS and Queen Street, there is no doubt that the police started the situation. I was not in the demo, but watching from my office. I even work with the police sometimes, so I have no axe to grind.
Whilst I doubt that those who learn about this through the main stream media will change their minds, a lot of city office workers have been enlightened to police behaviour. I was in a coffee bar this morning where everyone was talking about the bad behaviour of the police. That included suits, the barrista and some building labourers.
So, I think that there is hope that the cover up will be stopped. I shall be writing to my MP and London Assembly member asking for an enquiry. It probably won't do any good, but every (NV) means must be used to get this out in the open.
I cannot speak for what occurred elsewhere, but at QVS and Queen Street, there is no doubt that the police started the situation. I was not in the demo, but watching from my office. I even work with the police sometimes, so I have no axe to grind.
Whilst I doubt that those who learn about this through the main stream media will change their minds, a lot of city office workers have been enlightened to police behaviour. I was in a coffee bar this morning where everyone was talking about the bad behaviour of the police. That included suits, the barrista and some building labourers.
So, I think that there is hope that the cover up will be stopped. I shall be writing to my MP and London Assembly member asking for an enquiry. It probably won't do any good, but every (NV) means must be used to get this out in the open.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
AFAIK you must inform plod in advance or the whole demo is illeagal, in which case they can just steam in and....oh poo.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
isn't that only within a mile radius of the Houses of Parilament tho?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Init, if they're not going to play fair then why should we? If any kind of protest, lawful or otherwise, results in people getting their heads caved in then the sensible thing to do is opt for the unlwaful option and cause as much trouble for the plod as possible.
I don't see why you should be obliged to inform anyone of a protest anyway, a right with conditions attatched, and which can be denied on a whim, is not a right.
The first witness accounts have emerged of the final moments of the protester who died in the City last night at the end of a day of violent G20 protests.
The man, who is believed to have been in his 30s, but has not been named, collapsed in St Michael's Alley close to the junction of Birchin Lane and Cornhill at 7.30pm.
A tribute march to the dead man is taking place in the City this lunchtime. Its organisers are also using the event to highlight what they term "the enormous police repression that happened against protesters outside the Bank, the Climate Exchange and elsewhere in the City of London" yesterday.
Jasper Jackson, 23, from London, who photographed the man's collapse, said he had been standing in front of a line of police dog handlers minutes before he fell over. "The picture I have of him is of him stumbling in front of the protesters and in front of the police dogs looking dazed," he said. "He had a glazed look on his face. Then it was drawn to my attention that somebody shouted to the police with a loud hailer that there was a casualty and said, 'Can we get a medic?' "
Jackson said the man was then surrounded by police officers who were pelted with at least one missile.
"There were a couple of people throwing bottles in that general direction," said Jackson. "But they were told to stop doing that by the crowd. In fact, some people in the crowd threatened to kill them if they did anything to disrupt the treatment."
According to other witnesses present, lines of riot police had been sweeping down the street just before the man fell in an attempt to move protesters away from the bank. Sporadic scuffles broke out, with police using their batons intermittently. There is no suggestion that the man's death was caused by anything other than natural causes.
Another witness, Fran Legg, said she and a friend had rushed to help the man after they realised he was not well. "People were calling out: 'Please, we need medics over here'," said the 20-year-old student, from Tavistock, in Devon. "Someone called an ambulance." Her friend put the man in the recovery position and noticed he had blood on his face and was losing consciousness.
Legg said protesters were calling for people to move back and give the man space as eight police officers arrived. By the time the ambulance reached the scene 10 minutes later, the man was very white and could hardly breath.
Elias Stoakes, 25, also a student at Queen Mary, from Exeter in Devon, said: "There were a lot of people around him trying to help him and asking for medics.
"One or maybe two plastic bottles were thrown, but it was by people further back in the crowd who did not know what was going on. There definitely wasn't a rain of bottles.
"There were lots of us gathered around him telling people to give him space. The idea that protesters did not care is completely false."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/g20-summit-protester-death
The man, who is believed to have been in his 30s, but has not been named, collapsed in St Michael's Alley close to the junction of Birchin Lane and Cornhill at 7.30pm.
A tribute march to the dead man is taking place in the City this lunchtime. Its organisers are also using the event to highlight what they term "the enormous police repression that happened against protesters outside the Bank, the Climate Exchange and elsewhere in the City of London" yesterday.
Jasper Jackson, 23, from London, who photographed the man's collapse, said he had been standing in front of a line of police dog handlers minutes before he fell over. "The picture I have of him is of him stumbling in front of the protesters and in front of the police dogs looking dazed," he said. "He had a glazed look on his face. Then it was drawn to my attention that somebody shouted to the police with a loud hailer that there was a casualty and said, 'Can we get a medic?' "
Jackson said the man was then surrounded by police officers who were pelted with at least one missile.
"There were a couple of people throwing bottles in that general direction," said Jackson. "But they were told to stop doing that by the crowd. In fact, some people in the crowd threatened to kill them if they did anything to disrupt the treatment."
According to other witnesses present, lines of riot police had been sweeping down the street just before the man fell in an attempt to move protesters away from the bank. Sporadic scuffles broke out, with police using their batons intermittently. There is no suggestion that the man's death was caused by anything other than natural causes.
Another witness, Fran Legg, said she and a friend had rushed to help the man after they realised he was not well. "People were calling out: 'Please, we need medics over here'," said the 20-year-old student, from Tavistock, in Devon. "Someone called an ambulance." Her friend put the man in the recovery position and noticed he had blood on his face and was losing consciousness.
Legg said protesters were calling for people to move back and give the man space as eight police officers arrived. By the time the ambulance reached the scene 10 minutes later, the man was very white and could hardly breath.
Elias Stoakes, 25, also a student at Queen Mary, from Exeter in Devon, said: "There were a lot of people around him trying to help him and asking for medics.
"One or maybe two plastic bottles were thrown, but it was by people further back in the crowd who did not know what was going on. There definitely wasn't a rain of bottles.
"There were lots of us gathered around him telling people to give him space. The idea that protesters did not care is completely false."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/g20-summit-protester-death
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
this now being the case that a demo can be illegal if not given prior consent to police and could result in people being baton charged and kicked in and a legal protest will guarentee this is a possiblity then perhaps now is the time to start the process of peaceable non co-operation from the inception of these demos...
don't tell them dick, just do it and then let the chips fall where they may
continuing to give prewarnign to them isn't working...
hell if they are going to criminalise you anyways might as well be on your terms...
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
The 1km of HoC is for any demonstration. A demonstration can be an individual person.
If you want a protest march you must give filth the details in advance.
Oddly the HoC law does not clarify what a demonstration is. The dictionary definition is along the lines of 'voicing an opinion', which would mean that MPs break the law every time they mouth their empty platitudes on St. Stephen's Green.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Funny comment on the Guardian:
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
CJB/CJA meant that any group of 5 or more people gathering at any time where music charchterised by partial or wholley comprised of repeative beats or where there is a possiblity of such music being played will be deemed illegal unless prior consent is gained from the local authorities and the police.
it's been illegal to gather in groups of more than 5 since this site started (indeed the very history of this site and it's essence was to protest about that very legislation)
they can and have used this to break up raves and house parties but also it's used to justify any oppression of any group in times of need...
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Looking at the various newspaper comment pages it seems that it's now an accepted fact that medics treating the guy who died were 'pelted' with missiles. In some cases people have taken this to mean that without these alleged bottlings the medics would have been able to resucitate the man and everything would have been rosy. This would seem to me to be a difficult conlusion to come to based on only the most sketchy and partisan information but there you go.
It's De Menezes' heavy coat and rucksack all over again
It's De Menezes' heavy coat and rucksack all over again
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
When the Chinese are shocked by our policing methods you know something ain't right
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
i was thnking it's the police saying he was asking for it outcome of the demenezes case all over againLooking at the various newspaper comment pages it seems that it's now an accepted fact that medics treating the guy who died were 'pelted' with missiles. In some cases people have taken this to mean that without these alleged bottlings the medics would have been able to resucitate the man and everything would have been rosy. This would seem to me to be a difficult conlusion to come to based on only the most sketchy and partisan information but there you go.
It's De Menezes' heavy coat and rucksack all over again
wait we'll read the police have raided his house and shot his partner in the arm too but don't worry cos they 'found' child porn in the house and the man was a soap dodger who had done drugs in the past and had a 10 year age gap to a girl his junior and all other sorts of the usual charchter assignation/mitigation bullshit the met and the mejah do after these event's....
or is that only the asian suspects they do this to now...
some more pics - including towards the end when the filth stared attacking sit down protests outside the climate camp at about 10pm
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Press Association reporting on Rampart raid: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5joFTaXB4B0Me05s8-ez5EgiK-uSw
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
Meanwhile, police have raided two squats in east London to arrest people they believe may be linked to violence at Wednesday's G20 protests. Officers in riot gear detained around 60 people at one squat in Earl Street near Liverpool Street Station, the BBC's Dominic Hurst reported.
He said a crowd of about 30 demonstrators chanted "shame on you" at police, but the situation remained peaceful. Scotland Yard said a total of 80 were arrested in the operation, which also included a raid on property in Rampart Street, Aldgate.
Police also confirmed that the circumstances behind the death of a man who was involved in the protests has been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).
from beeb
He said a crowd of about 30 demonstrators chanted "shame on you" at police, but the situation remained peaceful. Scotland Yard said a total of 80 were arrested in the operation, which also included a raid on property in Rampart Street, Aldgate.
Police also confirmed that the circumstances behind the death of a man who was involved in the protests has been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).
from beeb
Why was the BBC pushing the "protesters attack police helping dying man" line as the final part of their bulletin last night? He read out a police and ambulance service statement on air and then repeated the claim that police were attacked while trying to save this man - when this claim came from the statements themselves.
It was, as cesare said, a crappy way to end the BBC's day of reporting when the material running at the demos was more balanced.
It was, as cesare said, a crappy way to end the BBC's day of reporting when the material running at the demos was more balanced.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
iirc, the numbers have since been reduced to 2. so in theory but legally, if you and a mate wander down the street, you could be s.60'd. free country, you're having a laugh.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I can't get that one. What's 14 down?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I've just submitted an email to BBC's Have Your Say with links to the Indy site with the video: https://london.indymedia.org.uk/videos/993
and the Climate Change site with the photos: http://www.climatecamp.org.uk//node/552
I wonder if it'll get past the vetting.
and the Climate Change site with the photos: http://www.climatecamp.org.uk//node/552
I wonder if it'll get past the vetting.
At last, a sensible anti-kettling story in the Guardian:
Did police containment cause more trouble than it prevented?
The controversial 'kettling' tactics employed at yesterday's London demonstrations left many peaceful demonstrators trapped, as Duncan Campbell explains
"For more than seven hours yesterday, police prevented people from leaving the area of the London G20 demonstrations near the Bank of England.
Protesters who had wanted to demonstrate against the British banking system and capitalism in general, but who had also wanted to protest about climate change or the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan elsewhere in the capital, were hemmed in.
Officers forming a wall of fluorescent yellow told those who wanted to leave the area and were puzzled that they could not: "Don't ask us, ask the gaffer."
The area became a public lavatory as people unable to move away used the entrances to Bank underground station as a urinal.
In nearby Bishopsgate, at the Climate Change camp, the same policy of containmment was used until later into the night and this morning.
This is a strategy called the "kettle", which sees protesters herded into an area and kept there for hours. Its stated aim is to contain a protest in a small area so it does not spread.
It was justified by the former assistant commissioner (special operations) at the Met, Andy Hayman, in an article in the Times earlier this week.
"Tactics to herd the crowd into a pen ... have been criticised before, yet the police will not want groups spilintering away from the crowd," he wrote.
The containment was backed up at the Bank, first with mounted police and then with police dogs.
As people were eventually allowed to leave at around 8pm, they were funnelled out down a narrow exit with a police officer grabbing them by the arm as though they were under arrest, again regardless of age or demeanour.
One officer, asked why people were not allowed to leave under their own steam, replied: "They might fall over."
People were then asked for their name and address and required to have a photograph taken. They are not obliged to do so under the law, but those who refused were put back in the pen.
The aim of the day's protests had been "to participate in a carnival party at the Bank of England, support all events demonstrating against G20 and overthrow capitalism".
The first objective was, to a great degree, achieved. There was street theatre and music, dancing and rolling of joints.
The Duke of Wellington, mounted on his horse, was able to fulfill what one imagines was a lifetime's ambition and carry an anarchist flag.
There were protesters in police uniforms and blue lipstick wearing "vigilance committee" badges.
The second aim was not possible for many people because they were not allowed to leave to join other protests. The downfall of capitalism may have to wait, although it seems to be doing a perfectly reasonable job of self-destruction.
As for more obvious signs of destruction, the Royal Bank of Scotland had its windows smashed. Why no one had thought to board up a building with the RBS sign on it, as many other outfits had been boarded up, is unclear.
As for the violent clashes that led to cracked heads and limbs, how much was inevitable and how much avoidable?
Certainly, the police had to put up with much abuse and missiles, although these were mainly plastic bottles and sprayed beer and cider.
Some demonstrators were certainly bent on aggro but, then again, so were some of the officers on Queen Victoria Street.
For hours, demonstrators had been trying to leave – to go home, to pick up their children, to watch the England v Ukraine match on television were some of the reasons given to police as people, some in tears, asked to be allowed to go but were forbidden from doing so.
The chants accompanying the last two violent clashes with police, when bottles were thrown, were: "Let us out!"
Nearly eight years ago, on May Day 2001, a similar "kettle" operation was imposed in Oxford Circus for around seven hours.
This led to a lengthy civil action, brought against the commissioner of the Met by one of those detained.
In January this year, the law lords finally upheld the right of the police in this case to carry out such containment.
The upshot of the ruling and the police's application of their "kettle" formula is that people thinking about embarking on demonstrations in the future may have to decide whether they want to be effectively locked up for eight hours without food or water and, when leaving, to be photographed and identified."
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/g20-protests-police-kettling
Did police containment cause more trouble than it prevented?
The controversial 'kettling' tactics employed at yesterday's London demonstrations left many peaceful demonstrators trapped, as Duncan Campbell explains
"For more than seven hours yesterday, police prevented people from leaving the area of the London G20 demonstrations near the Bank of England.
Protesters who had wanted to demonstrate against the British banking system and capitalism in general, but who had also wanted to protest about climate change or the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan elsewhere in the capital, were hemmed in.
Officers forming a wall of fluorescent yellow told those who wanted to leave the area and were puzzled that they could not: "Don't ask us, ask the gaffer."
The area became a public lavatory as people unable to move away used the entrances to Bank underground station as a urinal.
In nearby Bishopsgate, at the Climate Change camp, the same policy of containmment was used until later into the night and this morning.
This is a strategy called the "kettle", which sees protesters herded into an area and kept there for hours. Its stated aim is to contain a protest in a small area so it does not spread.
It was justified by the former assistant commissioner (special operations) at the Met, Andy Hayman, in an article in the Times earlier this week.
"Tactics to herd the crowd into a pen ... have been criticised before, yet the police will not want groups spilintering away from the crowd," he wrote.
The containment was backed up at the Bank, first with mounted police and then with police dogs.
As people were eventually allowed to leave at around 8pm, they were funnelled out down a narrow exit with a police officer grabbing them by the arm as though they were under arrest, again regardless of age or demeanour.
One officer, asked why people were not allowed to leave under their own steam, replied: "They might fall over."
People were then asked for their name and address and required to have a photograph taken. They are not obliged to do so under the law, but those who refused were put back in the pen.
The aim of the day's protests had been "to participate in a carnival party at the Bank of England, support all events demonstrating against G20 and overthrow capitalism".
The first objective was, to a great degree, achieved. There was street theatre and music, dancing and rolling of joints.
The Duke of Wellington, mounted on his horse, was able to fulfill what one imagines was a lifetime's ambition and carry an anarchist flag.
There were protesters in police uniforms and blue lipstick wearing "vigilance committee" badges.
The second aim was not possible for many people because they were not allowed to leave to join other protests. The downfall of capitalism may have to wait, although it seems to be doing a perfectly reasonable job of self-destruction.
As for more obvious signs of destruction, the Royal Bank of Scotland had its windows smashed. Why no one had thought to board up a building with the RBS sign on it, as many other outfits had been boarded up, is unclear.
As for the violent clashes that led to cracked heads and limbs, how much was inevitable and how much avoidable?
Certainly, the police had to put up with much abuse and missiles, although these were mainly plastic bottles and sprayed beer and cider.
Some demonstrators were certainly bent on aggro but, then again, so were some of the officers on Queen Victoria Street.
For hours, demonstrators had been trying to leave – to go home, to pick up their children, to watch the England v Ukraine match on television were some of the reasons given to police as people, some in tears, asked to be allowed to go but were forbidden from doing so.
The chants accompanying the last two violent clashes with police, when bottles were thrown, were: "Let us out!"
Nearly eight years ago, on May Day 2001, a similar "kettle" operation was imposed in Oxford Circus for around seven hours.
This led to a lengthy civil action, brought against the commissioner of the Met by one of those detained.
In January this year, the law lords finally upheld the right of the police in this case to carry out such containment.
The upshot of the ruling and the police's application of their "kettle" formula is that people thinking about embarking on demonstrations in the future may have to decide whether they want to be effectively locked up for eight hours without food or water and, when leaving, to be photographed and identified."
Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/02/g20-protests-police-kettling
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Fucking right there is.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Yep.
There's a lot more people there now than earlier. I wonder if STFC can nip out with his camera again?
And it's a proper story, not a blog, too. Hello Duncan - good luck getting it in tomorrow's paper and don't let the subs mess with it!
E2A: and tell the picture desk that's a silly weedy image. Police three deep is what it's about.
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