Warrington Bomb Linked to Red Action - BBC News

[articul8]

Beating the Fascists (book)

 

[bignose1]

it's not that hard to grasp bignose - the observation of the individual(s) involved is a private one - the reference to that observation without naming anyone is the public one

anyway, you've categorically denied having any involvement in any of the attacks on BTF and its authors - so why you getting so hot under the collar? guilty conscience?

likewise, it's unbelievable that you categorise the factual pointing out of those (not that I have done it here mind) who were actually involved in trying to stop the publication of BTF and see its authors in court as grassing or smearing

let's face it - the people involved in supplying names and addresses to Carter Ruck of antifascists so that they could pursue them through the legal system and in court is something much more akin to grassing, wouldn't you agree bignose?

That you categorise the attempts made to defend against those measures as grassing & smearing shows how far you've been warped by this whole thing

Youve outed a plenty over the years...none more so when NR came about. I never said I didnt have any involvement with LP's attempts to defend her partner with what was rightly predicted a witch hunt. Its a pity you cant see that. You also falsely wheel out this Searchlight conspiracy nonsense. Agendas and blah blah. It was simple mate. Only one reason why LP got involved. And deep down you know thats the only reason.

 

[love detective]

I think this post here and the various posts before and after it from the BTF thread (Beating the Fascists - albionism) is worth reading alongside bignose's posts above

as i've repeatedly said on the other thread bignose - I have all the letters from Carter Ruck where you are explicitly referred to as their source

now either they are lying (why would they? why would they involve you?) or you are

and you're all over the place both here and on the BTF thread - you oscillate between saying you had nothing to do with providing information to Carter Ruck, then you claim that if you had done you would have been fully justified in doing so, then you claim that this is not an admittance of doing so, then above you now say you've never denied being involved - can you not just pick one story and stick to it?

 

[TopCat]

Rubbish..trying hard to stop a worthwhile book on AFA/RA would have been a cuntish thing...having reservations about how it was going to slander a good friend and comrade while his kids are still grieving his passing is another. Ive told you...you choose not to believe it is my contact with Searchlight ended in 1994. I have never spoken with anyone connected with the current two factions about BTF/RA/AFA for nearly two decades. Something you just cant handle.

That's an interesting post. Perhaps you could make it on the BTF thread and leave this thread to take it's course.

 

[ViolentPanda]

i really doubt this is true.

All things are possible.

That doesn't, however, mean that all things are very probable.

 

[articul8]

Surely the spooks would have been looking at RA around that time anyway given that Hayes was lifted in March 93?

 

[TopCat]

I watched the programme this morning. Apart from the strangeness of this rather serious subject sharing a space with a visit to a garden centre what struck me was the timing? Why now? Add to that the sloppy nature of the whole thing, mixing up names, the pure speculation, it seemed more like a World In Action smear from the 80's. Someone is flying a kite.

 

[likesfish]

says the ex-soldier. Unlike him, you were paid for your violence.

So he just did it for fun?
You could make an arguement for armed republicanism but the "long war"was a bankrupt military stratergy that made suez look like a masterstroke

But footy hooliganism?? thats just violent headcases with a nasty spot of racism for added bonus

 

[Sprocket.]

Surely the spooks would have been looking at RA around that time anyway given that Hayes was lifted in March 93?

They are never not looking it is only the level of intensity that varies.

 

[TopCat]

So he just did it for fun?
You could make an arguement for armed republicanism but the "long war"was a bankrupt military stratergy that made suez look like a masterstroke

But footy hooliganism?? thats just violent headcases with a nasty spot of racism for added bonus

A soldier acting simply out of political commitment could well be said to have far more integrity than someone who grasps at the kings shilling.

 

[ViolentPanda]

can you say any more on that feller? slightly odd connection between republicanism and headhunter shite esp with the loyalist links of C18/HHs.

To be fair, I knew at least one of them (known to a few Lambeth residents of my generation and older because his dad was a councillor) who had fairly strong republican sympathies. And yeah, it was odd, a skinhead Headhunter with the usual decorative tattooage cheering on the Grand Hotel and Ian Gow's meeting with his car seat.

 

[articul8]

They are never not looking it is only the level of intensity that varies.

and at that point interest would have been at its height?

 

[LiamO]

But footy hooliganism?? thats just violent headcases with a nasty spot of racism for added bonus

That's very simplistic, but you do seem a little simple.

Fighting at football was a way of life for many thousands of young working class boys and men in the 70's and 80's for all kinds of reasons. It was one of the defining cultural and social phenomenona of those decades. To ignore this and reduce it to 'just violent headcases with a nasty spot of racism for added bonus' is to celebrate your ignorance... again.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They are never not looking it is only the level of intensity that varies.

And just because you don't get tugged, doesn't mean they haven't filed away any supposed naughties for possible future use, either.

 

[ViolentPanda]

and at that point interest would have been at its height?

Well, that's the conundrum. Not necessarily. We kind of assume a "spurred into action by evil deeds" scenario that doesn't really fit to how intelligence collection works. Our intelligence services only act when it's beneficial to the state to do so, otherwise they keep on top of a load of shit that they'll deploy as and when needed, sometimes years down the line.
This, however, is more than likely, as TopCat says, kite-flying - trailing a long line in the water with a snippet as bait, and seeing whether they get any bites that'll help them do one of (IMO) two things:
1) Shut down someone specific by holding something long-past over their heads, or
2) allow the security services to "suggest" legislative amendments to curtail a specific (but possibly entirely fictitious) threat that will also serve to allow the security services greater operational freedom per se.

Yup, a little bit CT!

 

[Sprocket.]

And just because you don't get tugged, doesn't mean they haven't filed away any supposed naughties for possible future use, either.

It wasn't me officer. It was . . . (Insert names/photos here)
Stop talking about it, it winds them into a stinging frenzy.

 

[framed]

Not really. I don't think he would appreciate it. Just that he was a sarf London boy who was a product of his time.

I would however say that the notion that all Chelsea's firm (or even most of them) were fash (or even fash symapthisers) is a silly over-simplification. What they did have was a very vocal and visible minority - some of whom were Chelsea fans who were Fash and some who were fash who decided to support Chelsea because the existenxce of the first group gave them a hard-on - and who were often regarded as mugs by other Chelsea hoolies..

And this is relevant to the context of the aforementioned BBC programme in what way?

 

[malatesta32]

What's BTF?

boring thread fuckover!

 

[Casually Red]

Are you jazz?
What possible reason would the uk government have for bombing its own town?
As an excuse for cracking down on the PIRA?
They didn't need one. Can't think of anything that would have been effective that they weren't doing already. Or people were dead against.

immediately after it there was a massive peace movement mobilised in the south of Ireland, very well funded, lots of tv personalities and the like got behind it . British embassy dabs all over it . Big political push against republicanism of any variety . And a right horrible and dodgy bunch of cunts they were .

 

[Casually Red]

But Red Action had NO relations WHATSOEVER with the Provos. Because INLA and the Provos spent a decade or more SHOOTING each other , as absolutely deadly political rivals ! - not co-operating partners on bombing missions !

just for accuracys sake this is completely untrue . The two groups were never shooting at each other, not ever . While there was some rivalry, primarily in Belfast, it never degenerated into a shooting match at any time . And there was plenty of unofficial co operation on the ground from time to time as well back in the INLAs earlier days .

 

[Limerick Red]

. edit. un needed.

 

[Casually Red]

Perhaps the Ayatollah might care to read some of the Red Action articles around the peace process contained in the pamphlet 'The Truce Is Out There', which more accurately represent the views of Red Action on Irish republicanism?

.

oh yeah, I remember reading that stuff on the internet some years back . And while I respect Red Action on many levels as regards their activism I have to say it was probably the biggest load of shite and drivel I have ever read in my life, and stands completely discreditted now as a political position . Either they are totally gullible when it comes to Irish politics or they are incapable of formulating a political analysis thats at odds with the utter shite that comes out of SF headquarters.

If I remember correctly there was also an insitence that anyone who wasnt on board with that shit in Ireland was a British agent . Which was the stock sinn fein line intended to demonise and indeed threaten dissent .
Anyone in working class republican Ireland reading that now would puke . The sooner its revised the better, it only makes them sound like complete idiots when it comes to Irish issues.

 

[TopCat]

oh yeah, I remember reading that stuff on the internet some years back . And while I respect Red Action on many levels as regards their activism I have to say it was probably the biggest load of shite and drivel I have ever read in my life, and stands completely discreditted now as a political position . Either they are totally gullible when it comes to Irish politics or they are incapable of formulating a political analysis thats at odds with the utter shite that comes out of SF headquarters.

If I remember correctly there was also an insitence that anyone who wasnt on board with that shit in Ireland was a British agent . Which was the stock sinn fein line intended to demonise and indeed threaten dissent .
Anyone in working class republican Ireland reading that now would puke . The sooner its revised the better, it only makes them sound like complete idiots when it comes to Irish issues.

A highly contentious post, one that I would disagree with almost entirely. Lets let posters read the actual articles that you try so casually to discredit and make their own minds up.

http://www.redactionarchive.org/2012/03/truce-is-out-there.html

 

[Casually Red]

A highly contentious post, one that I would disagree with almost entirely. Lets let posters read the actual articles that you try so casually to discredit and make their own minds up.

http://www.redactionarchive.org/2012/03/truce-is-out-there.html

by all means let them read it, their position on Ireland is fucking laughable Im afraid.

just linked to one article at random

Joe Reilly argues why this signals continued subversion not sell-out.

its as subversive as backing new labour

 

[framed]

Your approximation of Red Action's position on Ireland in the 1990's is as much a caricature as Ayatollah's recollection of its position in the 1980's.

Can you actually quote any of the articles concerned and those parts that refer to, or imply that anyone who disagreed with the political process was a 'British agent'? I don't think you do 'remember correctly' that aspect. There was certainly reference to a 'securocrat agenda' but it's nonsense to approximate the Red Action position as being basically that of Sinn Fein's. Red Action's was a measured response to the political process, as opposed to much of the left and 'dissident republicans' who had remained silent throughout the war but were falling over themselves to denounce the process. The alterations made to the political process and movement away from its original stated intentions is testament to the machinations, political somersaults and naked careerism of the Shinners, not to any failure(s) by Red Action to analyse events at the time.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I'm only sorry that we weren't wise old soothsayers and fortune tellers like you, or there'd still be a republican movement in Ireland worth speaking of today. Funny how all these clairvoyants have failed to make good on their predictions by building a viable political alternative to SF, innit?

 

[Red Storm]

I'm a little confused about the chicken-box bomb segment in the documentary.

They said that Red Action favoured those types of bombs. What does that mean?

Does anyone have a link or a copy of the article in question? Anyone with a university library log in would be able to find the article online via the Sunday Times Digital Archive.

 

[LiamO]

I'm a little confused about the chicken-box bomb segment in the documentary.
They said that Red Action favoured those types of bombs. What does that mean?

maybe they meant Red Action were beer-bellied, late night kebab and chicken eaters. grain of truth there

 

[Red Storm]

maybe they meant Red Action were beer-bellied, late night kebab and chicken eaters. grain of truth there

I see now. It's actually what happened on the bog in the morning.

 

[LiamO]

Yep. Maybe it's from phone taps?

"I dropped a hell of a chicken bomb this morning" or maybe they misheard 'log' as 'bomb'

 

[bignose1]

I tink dey said a ticking box bomb