VAR and the Premier League

[hash tag]

Imagine if each team or manager had say 2 or 3 appeals per match

 

[Badgers]

What to do with this 'shit'?

Temporarily remove it from the game until the fail can be ironed out?
Hope it improves with practice over time?
Make it more like rugby?
Throw it out the window?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

What to do with this 'shit'?

Temporarily remove it from the game until the fail can be ironed out?
Hope it improves with practice over time?
Make it more like rugby?
Throw it out the window?

Personally - and this obviously isn't going to happen - I'd just bin it.

Partly this is the stuff I mentioned above about it delays and it being unrealistic to always have 'correct' decisions about subjective decisions. Also though thinking about it I don't actually give a shit if wrong decisions are made. Whenever I've seen this debate there's always some idiot who comes along and says 'it's vital that decisions are correct due to the amount of money riding on games these days'. And to me if some big investor loses a load of money on a dodgy ref call (and these people are fucked off) then good - fuck em.

 

[The39thStep]

What to do with this 'shit'?

Temporarily remove it from the game until the fail can be ironed out?
Hope it improves with practice over time?
Make it more like rugby?
Throw it out the window?

Watched the Europa League last night and everyone seemed to do ok without it

 

[The39thStep]

'clear and obvious' so clear and obvious that it took VAR 3 mins 40 seconds to decide that a Sheff Utd player's big toe was offside in the build up to a goal.

 

[brixtonblade]

In a different phase

 

[belboid]

'clear and obvious' so clear and obvious that it took VAR 3 mins 40 seconds to decide that a Sheff Utd player's big toe was offside in the build up to a goal.

Clear and obvious isn’t the rule for offside or handball. The rule for them is simply ‘did it happen?’ Doesn’t matter if its a toe or if it’s two yards, it’s offside.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Clear and obvious isn’t the rule for offside or handball. The rule for them is simply ‘did it happen?’ Doesn’t matter if its a toe or if it’s two yards, it’s offside.

That may be the case, but the pictures shown for the Sheff Utd "goal" aren't definitive. The pics shown are the frame of tv coverage selected by a human as the moment the ball leaves the passer's foot. The frame before and the frame after will show different body positions for both the attacker and the last defender; as was the case with Son's "goal" vs Leicester and Firmino vs Villa, VAR is giving a definitive answer where the evidence is anything but.

 

[friedaweed]

It's shite and it's ruining the game for the punters. Week in week out it's all we're talking about. VAR out now.

 

[belboid]

That may be the case, but the pictures shown for the Sheff Utd "goal" aren't definitive. The pics shown are the frame of tv coverage selected by a human as the moment the ball leaves the passer's foot. The frame before and the frame after will show different body positions for both the attacker and the last defender; as was the case with Son's "goal" vs Leicester and Firmino vs Villa, VAR is giving a definitive answer where the evidence is anything but.

How should the offside rule be changed then? Cos that’s what you’re talking about. Any alternative to following the law to the letter using the most accurate technology available.

just needs to be loads quicker. Like they manage in the champions league.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

How should the offside rule be changed then? Cos that’s what you’re talking about. Any alternative to following the law to the letter using the most accurate technology available.

just needs to be loads quicker. Like they manage in the champions league.

Umpire's call. Have the linesman make a decision, check it. If within a predetermined margin of error (which all 3 examples I gave very much are), no evidence to overturn that decision so it stands. That way clear and obvious errors get corrected (Like Arsenal's goal recently which was originally going to be chalked off until it was shown the forward was 2 yards onside), but we don't have this bollocks about a toe 1 inch offside, or an armpit.

 

[The39thStep]

Seems to me that VAR is running football not football running VAR.I wouldnt necessarily change the offside rules , although what ever happened to the advantage for the attacking player has completely confused me, However in the light of Belboids correction that offside is not in the clear and obvious criteria then I'd consider it being moved there or put the decision to use VAR in the hands of the three match officials not some other referee in the a studio. The other thing I dont understand is why in some other countries its the referee that looks at the screen and in others they are not allowed. Anyway its moving the game into a situation where we spend more time looking at replays of lines drawn on screens and arguing about that than we do the game itself.

 

[elbows]

Actually using the pitchside monitors sounds like the next step they will now take:

VAR: Referees' chief Mike Riley to tell officials to use pitchside TV monitors

 

[The39thStep]

Actually using the pitchside monitors sounds like the next step they will now take:

VAR: Referees' chief Mike Riley to tell officials to use pitchside TV monitors

I'm confused about who is calling the shots here . Is it PGMOL, is it the EPL or is there a forum that unites them and the clubs? Who made the decision not to allow referees to use monitors in the first place?

 

[elbows]

I havent studied the structures, so I can only give the oversimplified answer Riley.

 

[Badgers]

 

[elbows]

Actually using the pitchside monitors sounds like the next step they will now take:

VAR: Referees' chief Mike Riley to tell officials to use pitchside TV monitors

The emphasis coming out of the meeting doesnt seem to be anything like what that earlier report suggested it would be.

VAR: Mike Riley tells Premier League club 'improvement is required'

Riley spoke for just under two hours at what was described as a fractious four-and-a-half-hour meeting before it was decided no substantive changes would be made this season for fear it would affect the integrity of the competition.

"There is not going to be any significant change this season," West Ham co-chairman David Gold said after the meeting.

Criticism of VAR have included the lack of communication with fans and referees not using pitchside monitors.

In response, the Premier League has said there will be increased information made available to fans at the stadium and the TV audience to explain in more detail what is being checked.

It also reemphasised that pitchside monitors would be "reserved for unseen incidents or when information from the VAR is outside the expectation range of the referee".

"Ensuring the pace and tempo of Premier League football remains an important focus for clubs," the league added.

 

[planetgeli]

Throw it out the window?

This.

You couldn’t have invented a better way to destroy the game for the fan if you’d put it out to a committee run by anti-football people.

It’s not getting ridiculous. It’s been ridiculous, absurd for too long now. The game is largely about the elation when a goal goes in. That elation has disappeared, up the arse of VAR.

Get. Rid. Now.

 

[editor]

Comments re: Wolves disallowed goal vs Liverpool VAR gives Liverpool goal, disallows Wolves goal -

Offside rules says, 'if in doubt, give it to the attacker' There is no way a human eye would have spotted that. If we have to draw perpendicular lines to rule out legitimate goals, it is better we let robots referee matches.

A little bit annoyed at the Wolves goal being disallowed. Great use of VAR for Mane's goal, but then followed by a ridiculous decision. How the Wolves player got any advantage with his toe being offside I'll never know. Show be 1-1.

 

[two sheds]

Half the problem is that you get this stupidly long sometimes several-minute pause in which everyone has to wait for some random seeming decision.

I really don't know why they didn't adopt the rugby replay format - everyone sees what's going on, everyone quickly gets to see what the result is.

 

[Badgers]

 

[editor]

View attachment 194431

It's just ridiculous when it gets down to multiple screen angles and mathematics to decide if a player's elbow is 1cm offside.

 

[friedaweed]

Comments re: Wolves disallowed goal vs Liverpool VAR gives Liverpool goal, disallows Wolves goal -

I think the Wolves goal should have stood as should ours. So the whole thing's fucked.

 

[friedaweed]

Half the problem is that you get this stupidly long sometimes several-minute pause in which everyone has to wait for some random seeming decision.

I really don't know why they didn't adopt the rugby replay format - everyone sees what's going on, everyone quickly gets to see what the result is.

At Anfield it's so awful because we don't have a big screen so the game either stops and no one can see why or it gets pulled back and no one knows why. As a spectator at the ground it's a fucking terrible part of the experience now. Even at grounds where there is a screen the off side decisions look like a joke.

 

[two sheds]

Yep is insane - it's been working perfectly at rugby games for (I think) years, it's actually an interesting, enjoyable feature to see exactly what happened. I don't think they do this thing with horizontal lines for checking whether a pass was forward for example, that's left to the judgement of the referee/video referee? Only if it's clearly forward that play's stopped.

The goal-line VAR with footie on the other hand is superb - no questions about whether it's right or not, you can just see it.

Eta it's no better if you have a big screen is it? They just say 'Decision pending' or some such crap and it's a black art that comes up with the result.

 

[The39thStep]

1. Scrap it -best solution but unlikley due to vested interests not least PGMOL's
2. Take offside out of VAR (MLS do this)
3. Put offside into the clear and obvious error category
4. Allow referees to use screen monitors to review rather than Stockley Park

 

[two sheds]

5. Show the incident on big screen as the VAR ref watches for everyone to see and make their own decision.

 

[Voley]

1. Scrap it -best solution but unlikley due to vested interests not least PGMOL's
2. Take offside out of VAR (MLS do this)
3. Put offside into the clear and obvious error category
4. Allow referees to use screen monitors to review rather than Stockley Park

2,3 & 4 of that would do for me. I'm not against it in principle (VAR would've sorted Lampard's England goal, for example) but the execution is a shambles right now.

 

[The39thStep]

5. Show the incident on big screen as the VAR ref watches for everyone to see and make their own decision.

Good idea however a small caution. So far at home watching on a big screen I've spat out drinks knocked over drinks, plates, nearly kicked the dog, turned the tv off and on, posted on social media my exasperation and sworn profusely. Theres normally only me, sometimes a couple of mates. What would 40000 at a game do?

 

[two sheds]

Hopefully same as 40000 at a rugby game would do - look at the screen and think 'yeh fair enough he handled that' or 'he kicked him in the air there'.

Although admittedly you get into the interpretation of the rules as a separate issue - I quite liked the requirement for 'intent' in handling in the penalty box that now seems to have changed.