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USA vs Wales

Raheem said:
Strange place to pick holes, but afaict the two named people involved in this are a journalists and a Welsh football official, so the idea of them boycotting might be moot.
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Why moot? They're fueling the circus.
 
strung out said:
Because not everyone wants to give up their job to make a political point.

Because sometimes it might be good to have journalists in bad places covering events.

Because some people might prefer to make a small protest in person than not go and have nobody protesting there at all.
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I'm unconvinced.

Are basic human rights just "a political point"?

Do you think having journalists there is a net benefit in this instance?

Not going would be the protest. And arguably a more powerful one than wearing a rainbow hat whilst taking part in the sportswashing spectacle.
 
Athos said:
I'm unconvinced.

Are basic human rights just "a political point"?

Do you think having journalists there is a net benefit in this instance?

Not going would be the protest. And arguably a more powerful one than wearing a rainbow hat whilst taking part in the sportswashing spectacle.
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So what proactive things are you doing to protest against the World Cup taking place in Qatar?
 
editor said:
So what proactive things are you doing to protest against the World Cup taking place in Qatar?
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I'm not going.

And I'm discouraging others from doing so.

I've also written to my club, the FA, and FIFA, as well as my MP, government ministers, and a number of newspapers.

I had hoped to attend the demonstration outside the Qatar Embsay, but currently have covid.

You?

ETA: I'd forgotten, but I've also done some campaigning in my workplace/union to highlight the issue.
 
Athos said:
I'm not going.

And I'm discouraging others from doing so.

I've also written to my club, the FA, and FIFA, as well as my MP, government ministers, and a number of newspapers.

I had hoped to attend the demonstration outside the Qatar Embsay, but currently have covid.

You?

ETA: I'd forgotten, but I've also done some campaigning in my workplace/union to highlight the issue.
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But you never were going to go, were you?

And what effective means have you employed to actively discourage anyone who wanted to go?
 
editor said:
But you never were going to go, were you?

And what effective means have you employed to actively discourage anyone who wanted to go?
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I was never going to go to Qatar (or Russia). But I might well have gone had it been somewhere else.

I've campaigned to persuade others not to go, by drawing attention to the issues in a number of ways, including speaking to fellow fans (directly and indirectly).

You?
 
The issue is the treatment of the people who are there, rather than their behaviour in going. There were, realistically, never going to be no people there.
 
Athos said:
I was never going to go to Qatar (or Russia). But I might well have gone had it been somewhere else.

I've campaigned to persuade others not to go, by drawing attention to the issues in a number of ways, including speaking to fellow fans (directly and indirectly).

You?
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Well, it's not me getting on my high horse criticising the actions of journalists and supporters, but apart from providing a forum where people can freely express their criticism of Qatar, FIFA and, indeed, working journalists who are covering the event, I've also decided not to promote it in any way on Brixton Buzz (we've traditionally given a lot of coverage to the WC*).

I'm not so arrogant to assume that I've had any influence on stopping people who were going to go anyway, though.

*Actually, I referenced it an article about Dulwich Hamlet, but that was really just my way of saying they they were wrong to screen the games at the club.
 
editor said:
Well, it's not me getting on my high horse criticising the actions of journalists and supporters, but apart from providing a forum where people can freely express their criticism of Qatar, FIFA and, indeed, working journalists who are covering the event, I've also decided not to promote it in any way on Brixton Buzz (we've traditionally given a lot of coverage to the WC).

I'm not so arrogant to assume that I've had any influence on stopping people who were going to go anyway, though.
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Are journalists and supporters beyond criticism, then?

Did you "get on your high horse" to criticise, say, those who broke the cultural boycott of apartheid South Africa?

Thank you for not censoring criticism of Qatar on your boards, and for not promoting their sportswashing. (That sounds sarcastic, but it's not; I think you've done the right thing.)
 
Athos said:
Are journalists and supporters beyond criticism, then?
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Practically, tens of thousands of fans were always going to travel to the tournament, so how the fuck are we going to know what happens to them if there's no journalists there to report on what they see?
 
Raheem said:
OK. So to what extent would you say the fact that they might be cunts is the headline issue?
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I haven't called then cunts. I've questioned whether, if they really care about human rights, they'd have been better boycotting the event, rather than wearing rainbow hats. That is a headline issue.
 
editor said:
Practically, tens of thousands of fans were always going to travel to the tournament, so how the fuck are we going to know what happens to them if there's no journalists there to report on what they see?
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That thousands of people were "always going to" do something shitty doesn't make it any less shitty.

We'd have found out by those people putting it on social media. Like where most of the reports have actually come from.

I don't buy the idea that a significant proportion of the press are there reluctantly, for the greater good of reporting human rights issues. Most of them are like the fans that chose to attend; they care more about football than human rights (though some might have the excuse that they'd lose their job if they refused).

Of course, people are free to do what they like, but they can hardly be surprised if people criticise their hypocritical gestures.
 
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Is every game thread going to turn into a similar argument? Does anyone think everybody doesn't know about how shitty the situation is but it's maybe a TINY bit more nuanced than if you're part of the problem then you 100% cannot be part of the solution?

Argue like fuck in the 'Drawing the line' thread but like it or not the football is happening and I'd rather like to watch it without being berated.
 
Steel Icarus said:
Is every game thread going to turn into a similar argument? Does anyone think everybody doesn't know about how shitty the situation is but it's maybe a TINY bit more nuanced than if you're part of the problem then you 100% cannot be part of the solution?

Argue like fuck in the 'Drawing the line' thread but like it or not the football is happening and I'd rather like to watch it without being berated.
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For the record, it was editor who raised the issue of rainbow hats on this thread.

And nobody is berating you. Not least of all because watching it on TV is a bit different from going there; like you say, there's nuance.
 
Tbf there have been times in the qualifying matches that Wales has looked better without him, but if you haven't got Allen's movement and you're playing as well drilled a defence, you need Moore as a talisman up front. I thought it was one of Moore's best showings in a Wales shirt.

Onwards and upwards. Not losing is a hell of a lot more important than not winning. (Bale would have scored but for that late foul against him though, eh? :mad:)
 
Athos said:
For the record, it was editor who raised the issue of rainbow hats on this thread.

And nobody is berating you. Not least of all because watching it on TV is a bit different from going there; like you say, there's nuance.
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And it's you that's fucking gone on and n and on about it, hypocritically moralising away and condemning supporters while doing absolutely fuck all to change anything yourself.

Enough already.
 
editor said:
And it's you that's fucking gone on and n and on about it, hypocritically moralising away and condemning supporters while doing absolutely fuck all to change anything yourself.

Enough already.
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I've not gone on about it, other than in response to you and others.

There's no hypocrisy in my position.

And I've told you what I've done to try to change it.

As for "moralising", I don't think taking a moral stand is a bad thing
 
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Kieffer Moore used to play for us in non-league and Cooper moved him on as he didn't fancy him :D
 
Athos said:
I've not gone on about it, other than in response to you and others.

There's no hypocrisy in my position.

And I've told you what I've done to try to change it.

As for "moralising", I don't think taking a moral stand is a bad thing
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Immovable grumpy object is hit by unstoppable grumpy force. Net result, two grumpy people feel more cross.
 
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