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Universal Credit/Benefits system

Petcha said:
I'm so sorry to hear that, that's incredibly bad and makes my problems seem a little shite. It sounds like between Fedayn and William of Walworth you've got two very informed people.

From my limited knowledge of this so far, they seem to have abandoned all checks and are running on fumes so you might be ok.
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Cheers :), but you flatter me :oops: ..... almost everything I find out is from my expert partner, but I'm only up with the basics myself.

Fedayn and scifisam really do put up knowledgeable posts though :cool:
 
MrSki said:
When I signed on to UC in March I was the primary carer for my brother. I had to go for an interview & told them my circumstances. My brother died at the end of April & I reported it on the site the same day but my payments still include an element for being a carer. Do I need to worry that they will want this back? I have double checked on the site & it is registered that I recorded this when it happened.
Any thought would be appreciated. PS I have not had any contact from them but do check their site daily.
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They'll want it back (and for once that's fair enough) but will take it back slowly when they eventually get round to updating your account. If they decide on a repayment amount that's too high, you can appeal it.

Also I am repaying an overpayment that wasn't my fault and at the moment repayments have been suspended (since this week), so you might get lucky and at least not have to pay it back right now, or possibly ever. Make sure you take screenshots of the fact that you reported the change in circumstances, and save them to your email account or somewhere you won't lose them. You really haven't done anything wrong, but it's good to have proof of that.

Also, sorry to hear about your brother. More shit to deal with on top of a bereavement. :(
 
scifisam said:
They'll want it back (and for once that's fair enough) but will take it back slowly when they eventually get round to updating your account. If they decide on a repayment amount that's too high, you can appeal it.

Also I am repaying an overpayment that wasn't my fault and at the moment repayments have been suspended (since this week), so you might get lucky and at least not have to pay it back right now, or possibly ever. Make sure you take screenshots of the fact that you reported the change in circumstances, and save them to your email account or somewhere you won't lose them. You really haven't done anything wrong, but it's good to have proof of that.

Also, sorry to hear about your brother. More shit to deal with on top of a bereavement. :(
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Thanks for the advice. Will do.
 
Petcha said:
Do you think that's partly coz you got lucky with the advisor? My experience has been so random so far. Some seem to give a fuck, some, er.... not so much.
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She had several different advisors, at three different jobcentres over a six month period (they kept changing the location, which was one of the reasons I had to go with her), though all in the same general area. A couple of them were actually really lovely. But she's very young, and this is in person, too - on the phone her difficulties are somewhat less obvious.

Having someone with you because you can't manage without them must make a huge difference also. I mean, it's not like I can go to work with her, so it made it obvious that she needs help. And most of the people we talked to were around my age so probably parents or aunts/uncles too.

FWIW I do think she'll be able to work at some point - she has some skills - but it won't be easy and there's a huge number of jobs she really can't do.
 
scifisam said:
She had several different advisors, at three different jobcentres over a six month period (they kept changing the location, which was one of the reasons I had to go with her), though all in the same general area. A couple of them were actually really lovely. But she's very young, and this is in person, too - on the phone her difficulties are somewhat less obvious.

Having someone with you because you can't manage without them must make a huge difference also. I mean, it's not like I can go to work with her, so it made it obvious that she needs help. And most of the people we talked to were around my age so probably parents or aunts/uncles too.

FWIW I do think she'll be able to work at some point - she has some skills - but it won't be easy and there's a huge number of jobs she really can't do.
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I've sat in pubs listening to totally fit people proudly explaining to me how they play the benefit system. While your daughter's going through that. I'm learning quickly there's so many loopholes that if you played your cards right you could probably jump through. There's dickheads on either side. I see it now. Never been in the 'system' before but I see it. For your daughter's case. I am so sorry. I used to work for Mencap and I used to work with people with learning difficulties. Even though I wasn't an actual advisor, just an adminish person. But it used to break my heart thinking about what would happen once they leave the caring confines of our offices into the 'real' world. I cannot imagine how hard it must be for a parent.
 
scifisam said:
She had several different advisors, at three different jobcentres over a six month period (they kept changing the location, which was one of the reasons I had to go with her), though all in the same general area. A couple of them were actually really lovely. But she's very young, and this is in person, too - on the phone her difficulties are somewhat less obvious.

Having someone with you because you can't manage without them must make a huge difference also. I mean, it's not like I can go to work with her, so it made it obvious that she needs help. And most of the people we talked to were around my age so probably parents or aunts/uncles too.

FWIW I do think she'll be able to work at some point - she has some skills - but it won't be easy and there's a huge number of jobs she really can't do.
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I've spent some of my unwanted free time doing some volunteer work with these guys - https://twitter.com/HighTreesCDT

Just helping on some stuff. But they seem really lovely and if she wants to upskill a bit they've got some excellent free courses. Sorry, derail.
 
Petcha said:
I've spent some of my unwanted free time doing some volunteer work with these guys - https://twitter.com/HighTreesCDT

Just helping on some stuff. But they seem really lovely and if she wants to upskill a bit they've got some excellent free courses. Sorry, derail.
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She's on a degree course and got good A levels - like I said, she has skills, so she will be able to work, at least if she's self-employed, which is what most of her prospective industry is anyway. The current economy is obviously not so great for that, but theoretically she can do some stuff. I have to support her a lot in that but not in terms of the actual course because after the first year it went beyond a level I could understand. It will take her longer to do the work but she will be able to do it, with me helping her to organise - which is something I'm terrible at too.

Sometimes we work well together; I can't write by hand, and she can't understand forms; together we manage them. She can't ask for directions and understand them, I can't walk well, so she pushes me somewhere and we both get there. :)

At her age a lot of people do shop work or bar jobs or work in call centres, often while studying, and those are the jobs she really can't do. They require more skills than some people think, though possibly covid might make people respect them a little more.

Bit of a derail, anyway - sorry, YouSir.
 
MrSki said:
When I signed on to UC in March I was the primary carer for my brother. I had to go for an interview & told them my circumstances. My brother died at the end of April & I reported it on the site the same day but my payments still include an element for being a carer. Do I need to worry that they will want this back? I have double checked on the site & it is registered that I recorded this when it happened.
Any thought would be appreciated. PS I have not had any contact from them but do check their site daily.
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Carers Premiun will be applicable for 8 weeks after the date that your Brother passed.
Sorry for your sad news, I hope you're keeping ok.
 
Petcha said:
Thanks. I'll ask tomorrow about the limited capability for work thing. What I've found is that none of the respective representatives I call know anything about what the other ones do. The guy I spoke to at UC told me to apply for ESA and now I'm fucked. When I called them I got the 'we don't deal with that, sorry. Have you tried calling Citizens Advice'.

I've got a totally twisted sense of humour so I can almost see the funny side of this shit. And I now understand why/how people get so fucked off with this system. If the people you're talking to don't understand how the fuck it works then how are we supposed to? And god, imagine if english wasn't your first language or you weren't particularly tech literate. It's an absolute total shambles.
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I think someone fairly high up in DWP must have read a lot of Kafka. It certainly appears that way...
 
Warning, rant approaching .....

Petcha said:
I've sat in pubs listening to totally fit people proudly explaining to me how they play the benefit system. While your daughter's going through that. I'm learning quickly there's so many loopholes that if you played your cards right you could probably jump through. There's dickheads on either side. I see it now. Never been in the 'system' before but I see it. For your daughter's case. I am so sorry. I used to work for Mencap and I used to work with people with learning difficulties. Even though I wasn't an actual advisor, just an adminish person. But it used to break my heart thinking about what would happen once they leave the caring confines of our offices into the 'real' world. I cannot imagine how hard it must be for a parent.
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They're either complete fucking idiots for being so open about it, or (vastly more likely IMO) rampant liars :hmm:

In the real world that those people (how many?? :hmm: ) are not in, it's ultra-difficult to 'play the system' like that -- given the very large number of sick people who have to jump through all sorts of bureaucratic hoops to get that to which they're fully entitled.

The high-percentage proportion of people who appeal against negative DWP decisions re sick benefits, and successfully appeal** (but with huge amounts of hassle to get their case reviewed properly) should be seriously revealing to anyone tempted to think it's a piece of piss to swing the lead.

**Sorry, no immediate access to figures on this, but facts and figures are available ......

The 'piece of piss to blag benefits' thing is full-on and provably utter bollocks, widely believed by the sort of twazzock who wants to believe S*n/Mail/Tory propaganda ......

</rant over :mad: >
 
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William of Walworth said:
Warning, rant approaching .....


They're either complete fucking idiots for being so open about it, or (vastly more likely IMO) rampant liars :hmm:

In the real world that those people (how many?? :hmm: ) are not in, it's ultra-difficult to 'play the system' like that -- given the very large number of sick people who have to jump through all sorts of bureaucratic hoops to get that to which they're fully entititled.

The high-percentage proportion of people who appeal against negative DWP decisions re sick benefits, and successfully appeal** (but with huge amounts of hassle to get their case reviewed properly) should be seriously revealing to anyone tempted to think it's a piece of piss to swing the lead.

**Sorry, no immediate access to figures on this, but facts and figures are available ......

The 'piece of piss to blag benefits' thing is full-on and provably utter bollocks, widely believed by the sort of twazzock who wants to believe S*n/Mail/Tory propaganda ......

</rant over :mad: >
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That's a quality rant though. But unfortunately I think there are those who genuinely know the loopholes. One guy I remember had a brother in law who is a GP and just keeps renewing his sick note. Yes, fucking disgusting but I'm not the sort to shop anyone.
 
Petcha said:
That's a quality rant though. But unfortunately I think there are those who genuinely know the loopholes. One guy I remember had a brother in law who is a GP and just keeps renewing his sick note. Yes, fucking disgusting but I'm not the sort to shop anyone.
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A sicknote from the GP doesn't cut it tho. You need one at the start but then there's medical assessments. I wish they'd just take my GPs word for it.
 
wtfftw said:
A sicknote from the GP doesn't cut it tho. You need one at the start but then there's medical assessments. I wish they'd just take my GPs word for it.
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I'm all new to this and my own injury coincided with the advent of lockdown and therefore no assessments as yet. How often do assessments usually take place and what's actually involved? Who assesses you?
 
MrSki said:
When I signed on to UC in March I was the primary carer for my brother. I had to go for an interview & told them my circumstances. My brother died at the end of April & I reported it on the site the same day but my payments still include an element for being a carer. Do I need to worry that they will want this back? I have double checked on the site & it is registered that I recorded this when it happened.
Any thought would be appreciated. PS I have not had any contact from them but do check their site daily.
Click to expand...
sorry to hear about your brother.
bearing in mind the 8 week post award which has been mentionned above, if it goes on further than that period I would suggest you flag it to them via your journal so that they cannot "fine" you for not noticing it on top of asking for a repayment.
 
Petcha said:
That's a quality rant though. But unfortunately I think there are those who genuinely know the loopholes. One guy I remember had a brother in law who is a GP and just keeps renewing his sick note. Yes, fucking disgusting but I'm not the sort to shop anyone.
Click to expand...

I've met people like that and usually they're talking about their brother-in-law or someone, not themselves. There was one guy I met who boasted that he had a completely free SUV on motability, to keep forever (not leased), and he didn't even have to pay for petrol. That is not the way it works. His car was in for servicing that day, naturally. Various things made me pretty sure he wasn't actually on any disability benefits at all, but somehow thought he'd be more impressive as a cheat than as a broke bloke living off his sister.

Like wtfftw says, a sick note is not enough and hasn't been for a long time. It might be temporarily now, but that's new, and won't last.

I have never ever in my life heard anyone boast about the ways they themselves cheat the system. If they're cheating the system, they won't boast because they're scared about being caught.

And many people on disability benefits are afraid to even admit they are on them because someone will say "but you seem fine to me," and being falsely reported as committing fraud is a terrifying thought.
 
Question that I suspect I know the answer to but worth checking:

I'm currently lodging long term in a friend's house and contributing rent, but there's nothing formal in place.

UC have come back to me asking for stuff like commercial tenancy agreement, etc, but we don't have any of that.

Assume I'm not able to claim unless I can provide that?
 
The Octagon said:
Question that I suspect I know the answer to but worth checking:

I'm currently lodging long term in a friend's house and contributing rent, but there's nothing formal in place.

UC have come back to me asking for stuff like commercial tenancy agreement, etc, but we don't have any of that.

Assume I'm not able to claim unless I can provide that?
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You can ask your friend to write a letter confirming you pay them x amount per week/month or whatever the frequency is, and UC should accept that.
 
The Octagon said:
Question that I suspect I know the answer to but worth checking:

I'm currently lodging long term in a friend's house and contributing rent, but there's nothing formal in place.

UC have come back to me asking for stuff like commercial tenancy agreement, etc, but we don't have any of that.

Assume I'm not able to claim unless I can provide that?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you'll definitely need a formal agreement rather than just your word, but you can get tenancy agreements at the post office, WH Smith's and so on (Googling showed me sites that also offer free ones to download but I'm not sure I'd trust the paper they're not printed on).

It's all online at the moment so you can enter in whatever details you have, but you'll need an agreement anyway, to protect you both.
 
scifisam said:
Yeah, you'll definitely need a formal agreement rather than just your word, but you can get tenancy agreements at the post office, WH Smith's and so on (Googling showed me sites that also offer free ones to download but I'm not sure I'd trust the paper they're not printed on).

It's all online at the moment so you can enter in whatever details you have, but you'll need an agreement anyway, to protect you both.
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Ah, thought so :(

Would formalising it risk dropping the family I live with in the shit for anything? Not declaring rent as income or anything like that?
 
The Octagon said:
Ah, thought so :(

Would formalising it risk dropping the family I live with in the shit for anything? Not declaring rent as income or anything like that?
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Yes and no. They might be more affected if you make a UC claim from their address and you're not down as a lodger. If they're also on universal credit, and you're down as a lodger, then their universal credit won't be affected. If, instead, you're not counted as a lodger but as a member of the household and you're an adult non-dependant, you could be expected to pay the whole rent.

If they own the place then they should be fine declaring it, because rent-a-room income is tax-free up to £7,500pa.

If they're on housing benefit (as a social tenant) they could be in trouble with their landlord - though probably not that big, as long as they let their landlord know now - and their housing benefit will be reduced.

TBH it's not that formalising it will create problems, but you making a claim from their address potentially could. Formalising the tenancy will decrease the problems, not increase them.
 
The Octagon said:
Question that I suspect I know the answer to but worth checking:

I'm currently lodging long term in a friend's house and contributing rent, but there's nothing formal in place.

UC have come back to me asking for stuff like commercial tenancy agreement, etc, but we don't have any of that.

Assume I'm not able to claim unless I can provide that?
Click to expand...

When I checked they wanted to see a rent book (not sure if that was enough though - but a long time ago).
 
You are a lodger not a tenant The Octagon, so the agreement you need is one for a lodger.

I have one I downloaded from the internet for my lodgers, I can send you a copy if you like.
 
Just a heads up. I logged on to UC yesterday for the fist time in a few weeks and I had a notification on 1st June to say that they are now expecting people to stick to their commitments again. So maybe if you havent been on for a while log on and see what's expected.

Edit: Coincidentally just had a phone call from local JC and they are not insisting you look for work, and won't be sanctioned if you don't look for work.
 
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cyril_smear said:
Just a heads up. I logged on to UC yesterday for the fist time in a few weeks and I had a notification on 1st June to say that they are now expecting people to stick to their commitments again. So maybe if you havent been on for a while log on and see what's expected.

Edit: Coincidentally just had a phone call from local JC and they are not insisting you look for work, and won't be sanctioned if you don't look for work.
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Same here. No need to log job searches or anything.

The bloke I spoke to asked me to upload my CV so they have it if any jobs come up (ha ha ha ha) that would suit me.

I am registered as a lodger too. Told them on the first call it was an 'informal arrangement' without paperwork etc. They said that was fine and none was needed. This may change over the coming days/weeks/months of course :hmm:
 
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