Universal Credit/Benefits system

[Jackobi]

Petcha You should be receiving the same amount of ESA & UC as you were when receiving UC only. You can receive both but your overall entitlement won't increase or decrease unless you are placed in the support group after your medical assessment in which case it will increase.

 

[Calamity1971]

I'm not sure if it's entitled.to or one of the other calculators that also has a section for wage deductions etc. Might be worth a look/run through.

I'm under the impression you can work and they just remove money accordingly until you reach a threshold that stops you qualifying for UC. Not entirely sure tho.

A friend of mine took a months work. Can't remember how much they deduct* but it ended up that he'd worked the whole month for about 200 quid. Plus the dwp inform local housing you're working ,which means that money stops and you have the ball ache of setting it up again.
When he challenged the amount of deductions he was told that it's all about a feeling of well being , being back in work. *I think they take 60p in the pound back? Will ring him later and check.
Not worth it imho.

 

[wtfftw]

A friend of mine took a months work. Can't remember how much they deduct* but it ended up that he'd worked the whole month for about 200 quid. Plus the dwp inform local housing you're working ,which means that money stops and you have the ball ache of setting it up again.
When he challenged the amount of deductions he was told that it's all about a feeling of well being , being back in work. *I think they take 60p in the pound back? Will ring him later and check.
Not worth it imho.

Yeah. I think it's only worth it really if it might lead to something more or if you're going stir crazy.
You can concurrently inform local housing but for me for eg it would only affect council tax reduction so I'd tell them at the same time and hope it doesn't fuck it all up. I don't think any UC areas administer the housing component separately.

 

[Calamity1971]

Yeah. I think it's only worth it really if it might lead to something more or if you're going stir crazy.
You can concurrently inform local housing but for me for eg it would only affect council tax reduction so I'd tell them at the same time and hope it doesn't fuck it all up. I don't think any UC areas administer the housing component separately.

Oops, I meant council tax .

 

[Petcha]

Petcha You should be receiving the same amount of ESA & UC as you were when receiving UC only. You can receive both but your overall entitlement won't increase or decrease unless you are placed in the support group after your medical assessment in which case it will increase.

Thanks. So it was basically pointless applying for ESA? Should have just stuck with my UC? They're not doing medical assessments at the moment btw. But I've got a really badly broken ankle and docs notes to prove it.

Sorry to labour all the acronyms here but I've also got a claim in for PIP. They've got my passport. I'm living in fear that's going to reduce my payment even further, bizarrely.

 

[Fedayn]

Thanks Fedayn. Do you work in the UC system?

If so, may I ask another question? I've been getting UC, but recently applied for ESA, which was approved and I will receive my first payment this week. This seems to have drastically reduced my UC amount though, to the point where it was actually really fucking stupid to apply for ESA. How does that work?

I thought they were separate things - ie, I'd get both?

For my sins in a previous life, of which there must have been many, yes I do, have done for over 5 years. Was income support new claims before that, which I really liked for many reasons.

Well, you can have both at the same time. However not all off both at the same time. If as you have, a dual claim, ie new style ESA and UC your standard allowance, plus why housing payment, child element, any premiums, or additional entitlemwnt, will be made up of your monthly ESA entitlement and then topped up to your entitlement with UC.

 

[Petcha]

For my sins in a previous life, of which there must have been many... Yes I do, have done for over 5 years. Was income support new claims before they, which I really liked for many reasons.

Well, you can have both at the same time. However not all off both at the same time. If as you have, a dual claim, ie new style ESA and UC your standard allowance, plus why housing payment, child element, any premiums, or additional entitlemwnt, will be made up of your monthly ESA entitlement and then topped up to your entitlement with UC.

Thanks Forgive my ignorance, but what was the point of applying for ESA? I assumed I'd get a bit more in total considering I'm effectively disabled. I'm a bit worse off by having both. Can I cancel my ESA and go back to just UC?

I've got my regular update call with my 'work coach' tomorrow who seems quite nice but if there's any tips you could offer... I only found out today that I'm getting less than I would with just standard UC.

I thought the whole point of UC was to roll everything into one.

 

[Fedayn]

Thanks Forgive my ignorance, but what was the point of applying for ESA? I assumed I'd get a bit more in total considering I'm effectively disabled. I'm a bit worse off by having both. Can I cancel my ESA and go back to just UC?

I've got my regular update call with my 'work coach' tomorrow who seems quite nice but if there's any tips you could offer... I only found out today that I'm getting less than I would with just standard UC.

I thought the whole point of UC was to roll everything into one.

I am not sure of ESA regs, like Greek to me. In many ways there is less grief attacked to claiming it as a benefit.
One thing you need to ask, if you have any disability benefits is if you should be looked at for Limited Capability for Work A bit of a faff but if entitled you can get at least another £150 a month. The interviews currently, UC ones, are pretty easy. More a case of the work xoa h asking you what we can do to help etc etc. What they may start talking about is beginning to look for work, if you are in that group of claimants. I don't know the details of your claim, you do, ask questions about your entitlement, are there any extra entitlements you could be entitled to. Ask the questions.

 

[Petcha]

I am not sure of ESA regs, like Greek to me. In many ways there is less grief attacked to claiming it as a benefit.
One thing you need to ask, if you have any disability benefits is if you should be looked at for Limited Capability for Work A bit of a faff but if entitled you can get at least another £150 a month. The interviews currently, UC ones, are pretty easy. More a case of the work xoa h asking you what we can do to help etc etc. What they may start talking about is beginning to look for work, if you are in that group of claimants. I don't know the details of your claim, you do, ask questions about your entitlement, are there any extra entitlements you could be entitled to. Ask the questions.

Thanks. I'll ask tomorrow about the limited capability for work thing. What I've found is that none of the respective representatives I call know anything about what the other ones do. The guy I spoke to at UC told me to apply for ESA and now I'm fucked. When I called them I got the 'we don't deal with that, sorry. Have you tried calling Citizens Advice'.

I've got a totally twisted sense of humour so I can almost see the funny side of this shit. And I now understand why/how people get so fucked off with this system. If the people you're talking to don't understand how the fuck it works then how are we supposed to? And god, imagine if english wasn't your first language or you weren't particularly tech literate. It's an absolute total shambles.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Yeah. I think it's only worth it really if it might lead to something more or if you're going stir crazy.
You can concurrently inform local housing but for me for eg it would only affect council tax reduction so I'd tell them at the same time and hope it doesn't fuck it all up. I don't think any UC areas administer the housing component separately.

my council tax reduction has now vanished from 4th of May for this year because of my SEISS payment, so I'm going to have to put in a new claim for that. :/

 

[scifisam]

Thanks Forgive my ignorance, but what was the point of applying for ESA? I assumed I'd get a bit more in total considering I'm effectively disabled. I'm a bit worse off by having both. Can I cancel my ESA and go back to just UC?

I've got my regular update call with my 'work coach' tomorrow who seems quite nice but if there's any tips you could offer... I only found out today that I'm getting less than I would with just standard UC.

I thought the whole point of UC was to roll everything into one.

You wouldn't usually get ESA for a temporary disability like a broken ankle, so I'm a bit confused.

ESA is an unemployment benefit, so if you get it then your universal credit will be reduced by the amount of ESA you get. It shouldn't work out less, though.

PIP is the one that you get separately to universal credit or ESA and has nothing to do with your income. But again it's based on permanent disability, not temporary.

 

[Petcha]

You wouldn't usually get ESA for a temporary disability like a broken ankle, so I'm a bit confused.

ESA is an unemployment benefit, so if you get it then your universal credit will be reduced by the amount of ESA you get. It shouldn't work out less, though.

PIP is the one that you get separately to universal credit or ESA and has nothing to do with your income. But again it's based on permanent disability, not temporary.

Ok, thanks, that makes sense. Seems like I've been led down the garden path a bit. So, you think I should stick to just UC and PIP and lose the ESA (if that's possible now?)

And it's a very very serious ankle break. The worst possible, the estimate is a couple of years. Believe me I'd love to work, but I can't be on my feet for more than a couple of hours, tops.

 

[scifisam]

Ok, thanks, that makes sense. Seems like I've been led down the garden path a bit. So, you think I should stick to just UC and PIP and lose the ESA (if that's possible now?)

And it's a very very serious ankle break. The worst possible, the estimate is a couple of years. Believe me I'd love to work, but I can't be on my feet for more than a couple of hours, tops.

It's worth following it up to find out why you're getting less with ESA and UC than with just UC, because you shouldn't be. Otherwise there's not much harm in letting the ESA claim continue. You'll eventually be asked in for a work capability assessment, but that's going to be delayed for a long time. It might make your universal credit claim easier once the govt starts requiring people to fill in job search forms again.

Applying for PIP is never a bad idea, but TBH I'd be absolutely amazed if you got it. You definitely won't if you can be on your feet for a couple of hours because that implies that you can still do things like bathing yourself, cooking your own meals, etc. It's about personal care needs and mobility, not whether or not you can work, which is why you can get it even if you can work (for example, David Blunkett got PIP). You might get the mobility component (probably not, but who knows) so go ahead with the application if you can face the length of the form.

 

[Petcha]

It's worth following it up to find out why you're getting less with ESA and UC than with just UC, because you shouldn't be. Otherwise there's not much harm in letting the ESA claim continue. You'll eventually be asked in for a work capability assessment, but that's going to be delayed for a long time. It might make your universal credit claim easier once the govt starts requiring people to fill in job search forms again.

Applying for PIP is never a bad idea, but TBH I'd be absolutely amazed if you got it. You definitely won't if you can be on your feet for a couple of hours because that implies that you can still do things like bathing yourself, cooking your own meals, etc. It's about personal care needs and mobility, not whether or not you can work, which is why you can get it even if you can work (for example, David Blunkett got PIP). You might get the mobility component (probably not, but who knows) so go ahead with the application if you can face the length of the form.

Thank you so much. You've explained more there than the call centre people have managed!

I thought claiming PIP might be pushing it. But let's see. When I claimed UC the guy basically told me 'we're not even checking anything right now'. So you never know, PIP might be the same.

 

[josef1878 2.0]

It's worth following it up to find out why you're getting less with ESA and UC than with just UC, because you shouldn't be. Otherwise there's not much harm in letting the ESA claim continue. You'll eventually be asked in for a work capability assessment, but that's going to be delayed for a long time. It might make your universal credit claim easier once the govt starts requiring people to fill in job search forms again.

UC was given a £1000 per year temporary boost at the beginning of the lockdown. ESA and JSA were not.
I think it was for 12 months initially.

 

[josef1878 2.0]

Dunno how I managed that but the last 4 lines of the post I quoted above were added by me

 

[William of Walworth]

Petcha : It looks like you've been given some very useful advice on this thread already, but as well as Citizens Advice, where phone queues can be never-ending , it might (?) be worth finding out if there are any dedicated welfare rights/benefits advice units in your area.

Sometimes, units of that kind are a department of, or at least part-funded by, the local authority.

My partner (festivaldeb) has been an advisor for two different local councils here in South Wales for many years (she also had a spell at Citizens Advice)..

I've often met her welfare rights colleagues both in Wales and elsewhere, and they tend to pride themselves on giving good, independent advice.

They also do things like help to organise appeals against bad/iffy DWP decisions, etc.

Anyone having issues with benefits-related stuff could do a lot worse than find out about resource centres and advice units near where they live.

 

[Petcha]

Petcha : It looks like you've been given some very useful advice on this thread already, but as well as Citizens Advice, where phone queues can be never-ending , it might (?) be worth finding out if there are any dedicated welfare rights/benefits advice units in your area.

Sometimes, units of that kind are a department of, or at least part-funded by, the local authority.

My partner (festivaldeb) has been an advisor for two different local councils here in South Wales for many years (she also had a spell at Citizens Advice)..

I've often met her welfare rights colleagues both in Wales and elsewhere, and they tend to pride themselves on giving good, independent advice.

They also do things like help to organise appeals against bad/iffy DWP decisions, etc.

Anyone having issues with benefits-related stuff could do a lot worse than find out about resource centres and advice units near where they live.

Cool, thanks William. Good advice. I'm in South London, I'll have a dig around and see about these other orgs. My experience of Citizens Advice has been a bit hit and miss. Sometimes you get someone who knows everything inside out and other times you get someone who you rapidly realise you actually about the system than they do!

 

[scifisam]

Yeah, ESA wasn't given a boost, but the amount of ESA should be deducted from the current Universal credit payment, so the boost in the UC amount won't make any difference - or shouldn't.

Here's a link and the pertinent part:

You can get New Style ESA on its own or at the same time as Universal Credit. If you apply for and are awarded both benefits, the New Style ESA you are paid will reduce your Universal Credit payment by the same amount.

For those who don't click on the link, new style ESA is based on national insurance contributions. A lot of people who've worked are eligible for it (it's what I'm on). It used to be called contributions based ESA.

New Style ESA is the only ESA benefit you can get at the same time as universal credit, so that's the only one that's relevant. Otherwise ESA is rolled into universal credit. When looking up information about ESA it's very important to check what you're reading is about new style ESA, because the rules are completely different.

New-style ESA has two other major advantages - you can get it regardless of your partner's income, and the savings threshold is much higher, £16k. That might not apply to you now but who knows in the future.

That link probably also explains why you can get New Style ESA, Petcha - these are new rules related to Covid:

You can apply for New Style ESA if you’re unable to claim Statutory Sick Pay and one of the following applies:

• you or your child think you have coronavirus or you’re recovering from it
• you or your child are self-isolating because you came into contact with someone who might have coronavirus
• you have been told to stay at home for at least 12 weeks by the NHS because you’re at high risk of severe illness

So it's become much easier to get it - at least temporarily.

I'm not sure that will apply to PIP, but it definitely means that things have changed and it's even more worth applying than I otherwise thought.

 

[Calamity1971]

I've got my regular update call with my 'work coach' tomorrow who seems quite nice

Ime they all do till you have a face to face.
I used to leave them places like a wreck, always that threat of a sanction hanging in the air.
Anyway, hope you get sorted and have a better experience with them than me.

 

[Calamity1971]

Petcha : It looks like you've been given some very useful advice on this thread already, but as well as Citizens Advice, where phone queues can be never-ending , it might (?) be worth finding out if there are any dedicated welfare rights/benefits advice units in your area.

Sometimes, units of that kind are a department of, or at least part-funded by, the local authority.

My partner (festivaldeb) has been an advisor for two different local councils here in South Wales for many years (she also had a spell at Citizens Advice)..

I've often met her welfare rights colleagues both in Wales and elsewhere, and they tend to pride themselves on giving good, independent advice.

They also do things like help to organise appeals against bad/iffy DWP decisions, etc.

Anyone having issues with benefits-related stuff could do a lot worse than find out about resource centres and advice units near where they live.

Deffo this. I found a brilliant place that was mostly ex union and Tory haters. They got a decision overturned for me years ago, even accompanying me to the appointment.

 

[scifisam]

Ime they all do till you have a face to face.
I used to leave them places like a wreck, always that threat of a sanction hanging in the air.
Anyway, hope you get sorted and have a better experience with them than me.

I've always found them fine, but my disability is fairly obvious.

 

[Calamity1971]

A friend has just told me Petcha that there is a group on FB called fuca ( fighting universal credit atrocities) and there are really good benefit advisers on there.

 

[MrSki]

When I signed on to UC in March I was the primary carer for my brother. I had to go for an interview & told them my circumstances. My brother died at the end of April & I reported it on the site the same day but my payments still include an element for being a carer. Do I need to worry that they will want this back? I have double checked on the site & it is registered that I recorded this when it happened.
Any thought would be appreciated. PS I have not had any contact from them but do check their site daily.

 

[Calamity1971]

I've always found them fine, but my disability is fairly obvious.

Going in there with mh problems is a different matter. It's a long and miserable story for another time . Nice to hear that you don't get grief. It's getting worse from what I hear from friends.

 

[Petcha]

A friend has just told me Petcha that there is a group on FB called fuca ( fighting universal credit atrocities) and there are really good benefit advisers on there.

Thanks. And I hope the way I'm pronouncing that is correct (they could definitely fit an extra 'k' and 's' in there though.

 

[Calamity1971]

When I signed on to UC in March I was the primary care for my brother. I had to go for an interview & told them my circumstances. My brother died at the end of April & I reported it on the site the same day but my payments still include an element for being a carer. Do I need to worry that they will want this back? I have double checked on the site & it is registered that I recorded this when it happened.
Any thought would be appreciated. PS I have not had any contact from them but do check their site daily.

I'm guessing they'll want it back even though it's their fuck up.

 

[Petcha]

When I signed on to UC in March I was the primary care for my brother. I had to go for an interview & told them my circumstances. My brother died at the end of April & I reported it on the site the same day but my payments still include an element for being a carer. Do I need to worry that they will want this back? I have double checked on the site & it is registered that I recorded this when it happened.
Any thought would be appreciated. PS I have not had any contact from them but do check their site daily.

I'm so sorry to hear that, that's incredibly bad and makes my problems seem a little shite. It sounds like between Fedayn and William of Walworth you've got two very informed people.

From my limited knowledge of this so far, they seem to have abandoned all checks and are running on fumes so you might be ok.

 

[scifisam]

Going in there with mh problems is a different matter. It's a long and miserable story for another time . Nice to hear that you don't get grief. It's getting worse from what I hear from friends.

Yeah, I was thinking that, but didn't want to make assumptions about the reason for your claim.

I was surprised by how friendly they were to my daughter, who's autistic, and was eligible for UC for a little while, but I think that sadly she's fairly obvious too. I used to take her along because she couldn't get there by herself and then sit aside until they called me over to answer questions she simply wasn't understanding. Left completely on her own her difficulties might have been obvious but she also just wouldn't have been able to answer the questions even if the advisor was willing to nudge her along.

 

[Petcha]

Yeah, I was thinking that, but didn't want to make assumptions about the reason for your claim.

I was surprised by how friendly they were to my daughter, who's autistic, and was eligible for UC for a little while, but I think that sadly she's fairly obvious too. I used to take her along because she couldn't get there by herself and then sit aside until they called me over to answer questions she simply wasn't understanding. Left completely on her own her difficulties might have been obvious but she also just wouldn't have been able to answer the questions even if the advisor was willing to nudge her along.

Do you think that's partly coz you got lucky with the advisor? My experience has been so random so far. Some seem to give a fuck, some, er.... not so much.