Ukraine

[SpineyNorman]

hold on now..her english is perfectly understandable, theres no comparison. The fact is the line she is trying to spin is a complete load of bollocks when the opportunity is there for others to rebut it . Barbara Nuland came a serious cropper in the senate just the other day when trying to do the same thing against people from the US republican party prepared to challenge her narrative . RT certainly didnt stage manage that .

when this stuff is discussed in depth on RT by their journalists they are pointing out its in their interests as a news channel to have heavyweight figures on their shows in order to grill them . They invite them on all the time . All too often they are refusing to come on using the excuse that its Putins mouthpiece simply in order to duck the debate and the more serious grilling theyll get on there than on the likes of the pre programmed BBC. RT invite them to appear and explain themselves, they simply refuse . Thats not RTs fault . They cant physically make them turn up .
The state department at their press conferences regularly refuse to even answer their questions

Wow. Move along people, nothing to see here. No bias in RT.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Here's the thing, I can understand the interests, and those who represent them in Ukraine, that Russia are advancing. For better or worse, they have extensive historical and economic ties to the region, which are more-or-less embodied with some oligarchs. When I read an RT report, I can understand the context.

What interests are NATO and specifically the British advancing through their media outlets exactly? Those of the 'people of Ukraine'? We are bankrolling a hodge-podge of out-and-out National Front-style fascists, right-wing hawkish oligarchs (we (the public) do not really know who they are exactly, just that they aren't Putin's boys and girls), and crypto-fascist (possibly fascist) representatives of a middle-class that wants to get tied into Europe and a military alliance.

When I read a report in the west, and particularly the BBC, I have no context. It looks like a mixture of rehashed anti-Putin propaganda or the innane ramblings of a public school boy visiting the east of Ukraine for the first time.

The over-arching context is the same, whether you're talking about RT or the BBC - support of power through promotion of the the status quo the state wishes to come about. We should view ALL "mainstream" media as doing this, regardless of whether the content looks like it is written by an informed party, or by a public schoolboy.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well my original point was "it's impossible for any media source not to fit to some degree into the Herman/Chomsky's propaganda model". The problem is the propaganda model in itself creates biased journalists as journalists have to conform to the policies of the organization.

I think you're kind of putting the cart before the horse, saying "it's impossible", given that the propaganda model exists outside of the media it influences, and therefore can't "create biased journalists" per se. It can only exist in an environment where those media accept the predicates of the propaganda model pre-existant to the creation of actual propaganda.
In other words, you have to have already drunk some of the Kool-Aid, prior to engaging in journalism as a career. You need to already have accepted "the system" in order to engage with it. That isn't a product of the propaganda model, it's a product of capitalist ideology.

 

[butchersapron]

APPEAL OF THE KRYVIY RIH BASIN MINERS TO THE WORKERS OF EUROPE

The attention of the world community is currently focussed on the confrontation between pro-government and anti-government forces in Ukraine. This confrontation is becoming all the more tenacious and bloody. All the more it is being turned into an interethnic confrontation that is stoking up a hysterical mutual hatred between workers of different nationalities.

What remains beyond people’s attention at this moment is the sharpening social and economic situation, and not only in the regions where the fighting is taking place. The rapid devaluation of the hryvnia (Ukrainian currency), the steep rise in prices of consumer goods, transport and basic services, as well as the cutbacks in production in many enterprises – all this has led to a sharp fall in workers’ real wages. By our estimates there has been a 30-50% fall in real wages.

There is a mounting labour dispute in the enterprises of EVRAZ plc, whose headquarters are in London. Today (11 May 2014) the miners marched through the streets of Kryvyy Rih to the administration of the EVRAZ Sukha Balka plc and showered its office with loose change as a sign of protest against the fictitious “wage increase” for April. The Independent Union of Miners of Ukraine calls upon the British public to picket the offices of EVRAZ plc and the offices of other Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs’ corporations in London and other cities in Europe. If we don’t force them to come round the chances of preserving peace in Ukraine will be elusive.

At the same time we are demanding that the authorities officially recognise the miners’ self defense and the arming of miners’ brigades. Organised workers and workers’ self defense are precisely that stabilising factor which can effectively prevent the escalation of violence in Ukraine. In those places where organised workers are controlling the situation mass actions never turn into mass killings. The workers defended the Maidan in kryviy Rih. The workers did not allow any violence when they took under their control the situation in the city of Krasnodon during the recent general strike there.

We call upon the workers of Britain for solidarity. In particular we will be grateful for any information and humanitarian support, but the biggest need we feel right now is for personal protective clothing for members of the self defense brigades (body armour and the like) and mobile radio communications equipment.

 

[DairyQueen]

Interesting organisation - KPVU. KPVU do actually look like they are addressing genuine social concerns, and hopefully are not just be stooges of Kyiv.

http://www.kvpu.org.ua/en/news/6/3051/appeal-to-international-trade-unions

However instead of providing solidarity support to working people of Ukraine in their struggle against the military intervention in Crimea, the Federation of Independent Trade Unions of Russia (FNPR) indulges in Kremlin regime by organizing numerous anti-Ukrainian meetings in favor of the annexation of Crimea to Russia (http://www.fnpr.ru/n/241/9135.html), which stimulates the invader’s aggressive actions.

That link has some photos... this is the translated version of the Russian Trade Union statement on Crimea... looks like their angle is that unification with Russian parts Ukraine is an act of solidarity and supporting Putin personally. Not sure if this schism is present in Ukraine itself. The paragraphs have not worked in the translated version.

March 18 trade union organizations in many regions of the Russian Federation took part in marches and rallies in support of the Crimea to Russia .Vladimir held a march and rally totaling over 14,000 people. Column, which included heads of the region and the city, deputies of different levels, representatives of trade union organizations , labor groups , municipalities, NGOs , political parties , students , veterans, marched from the Golden Gate to the Cathedral Square . The main slogan of the action " Together Forever ! Putin is right ! " carried the heads of regional organizations trade unions .Mark one of the most significant events in recent history in the main square of Yaroslavl were about three thousand people. Rally became that rare event when united in their feelings and evaluations were not only representatives of public organizations , but also political forces. Everyone supported the results of the Crimean referendum. On the square waving flags hundreds gathered chanting: " Crimea, we are with you ", " Together Forever ," " Crimea , with the return ," " One country - one people " .In Pskov, a rally organized by the Pskov regional council of trade unions , local branches of "All-Russia People's Front - For Russia " political party "United Russia" , the Communist Party, the Liberal Democratic Party , as well as a number of public organizations in the region . Over 5000 people have supported the event , came to the rally , holding banners : "For Pskov Crimea became a mother ," " Victory will be ours ," " Together we are strong ", " Sevastopol - we are with you ."In Belgorod rally was held under the slogan " We believe Putin ", " Crimea , with the return ", " We're the Crimea ", "For the Crimea! For peace , "" While we are united - we are invincible . " On-site at the memorial complex " Diorama " Battle of Kursk " gathered about 5000 Belgorod . Led a rally of Belgorod regional trade union chairman , deputy of the regional Duma Nikolai Shatalov . A speech in support of the Crimean made head of the regional branch of the party " Labour Union " Olga Gvozdeva .Five thousand Saratov came to the meeting with a view to express their solidarity with the people of Crimea. The action was attended by representatives of the Federation and the trade union organizations of the Saratov region headed by Mikhail Tkachenko. Participants of the meeting were unanimous in saying that they are witnessing a truly historic event : native Russian territory - the Crimean peninsula again becomes Russian .In Saransk popular gathering place "We are together forever! ", Organized by the Federation of Trade Unions of the Republic of Mordovia . In solidarity with the Ukrainian people in the Soviet area gathered 11,000 people. Opening the event, chairman of the Federation of Trade Unions of the Republic of Mordovia Anatoly Soldatov said: " We support the results of the referendum residents of Crimea and Sevastopol , cast your vote for reunification with Russia . Fraternal peoples together again! We pledge the full support of the agreement signed in the Kremlin and the adoption of the Crimea and Sevastopol to the Russian state . "In Nalchik, trade union activists of Kabardino-Balkaria and members of the regional branch of the Russian political party " Labour Union " took part in the rally "Forever Together" , spoke in support of the entry of the Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol city in the Russian Federation.In Kurgan folk gathering place " Kurgan for the fraternal people! ". On the area of the regional center gathered those who care about the situation in brotherly Ukraine: representatives of the Federation of Trade Unions of the Kurgan region , the regional branch of the party " Labour Union ", the Youth Council of the Regional Federation of Trade Unions , the ordinary members of trade unions , political parties, youth , veterans' organizations and ordinary citizens . The main slogans of the rally : "Crimea , with the return ," " No to fascism in Ukraine ", " One nation - one state " and many others .Union leaders and activists attended a rally in support of the referendum in the Crimea in the center of Chelyabinsk - at Revolution Square . There were more than five thousand people : representatives of the executive and legislative branches, regional branches of political parties, public organizations , volunteer movements , students, pensioners, residents of the city and the region, came to the regional center in order to participate in the rally.In Tyumen rally was attended by over a thousand people. With a festive mood, patriotic slogans and posters Tyumentsev enthusiastically welcomed the speech of the organizers and participants of the rally , which included representatives TMOOP "Tyumen Oblsovprofa " and trade unions .In Tomsk popular gathering "For the brotherly people of Ukraine" , organized by the Federation of trade unions of Tomsk region , Tomsk regional department of Russian public organization of veterans of war and labor , the Armed Forces and law enforcement agencies , as well as a regional organization Tomsk Russian public organization " Russian Union of Afghan Veterans " . According to the chairman of the FPO TO P. Brekotnina , who led the rally on the square in front of the Siberian Physico -Technical Institute has gathered about 6000 people.In Chita meeting was held jointly by the Trans-Baikal regional public organization of veterans of war and labor , the Armed Forces and law enforcement agencies and the regional office in the Trans-Baikal Territory ONF . Only action was attended by more than five thousand people.Ordzhonikidze Square on one of the central squares of the city of Yakutsk , a rally was held , which was attended by trade unionists and representatives of labor collectives of the Republic of Sakha ( Yakutia).Khabarovsk Krai unions participated in the People's Assembly "For the brotherly people of Ukraine » . For several hours, the main square of Khabarovsk has evolved into a true center of patriotism and unity. "Crimea , Khabarovsk Krai with you ", " Crimea - the world ", " Russia and Ukraine - one family ", " Our grandfathers defended one country ", " Sevastopol Crimea Russia " - slogans , banners and posters its support to the brotherly people expressed about 10,000 Khabarovsk .Fully reports on meetings , see " News affiliates ."

 

[Casually Red]

Wow. Move along people, nothing to see here. No bias in RT.

nobody has remotely said theres no bias, your being a disingenuous little shit now making up your own strawman .

 

[Casually Red]

The BBC and RT aren't comparable. The BBC World Service like RT? Don't think so. RT may show some interesting things now and then but it's buried beneath a less than subtle editorial bias. I'm sure Fox News also unearth some interesting facts now and then but the same applies...

did Abby Martin unreservedly condemn the Crimean reunification on air in very harsh terms ? Yes or no .
Did she state unequivocally during that denunciation of Russias actions that nobody interferes in her editorial analysis and never has ? yes or no
Has she been sacked yet ? yes or no.
Has she been assassinated yet ? yes or no .
Is there any remotely comparable balance on the BBC as regards Ukraine ? Yes or no ?

Did anyone on Fox news condemn what happened in Iraq ? theres no comparison .

Liz Wahl who carried out her neo con arranged resignation stunt on air claimed as justification for her pre arranged stunt RT had directly interfered with her interview of US politician Ron Paul and heavily editted it .
Ron Paul flatly contradicted her and said hed watched the interview in full and was quite satisfied it was an accurate depiction of everything hed said.

Do you agree that actually happened ? Do I have to link to it again ?


The fact is that even RTs most strident critic who emerged from the inside could not point to a single credible instance of her editorial line ever being interfered with in the slightest . She demonstrably lied about the claim it was interfered with, and the person she interviewed made it abundantly clear she lied .

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2014/03/ron-paul-disputes-former-rt-anchors.html

Do you think Larry King, very pro US, condemns Edward Snowden as a traitor on RT, is also being told what to say by the Kremlin ? Yes or no .

Peter Tatchell is without dount a strident critic of Vladimir Putin . Hes also a regular contributor to RT commentary . Would you agree hes treated very fairly and respectfully during this interview and permitted say everything he wants to say ? Are you seriously suggesting his treatment on RT is even remotely comparable to what goes on on the likes of Fox news . Or that any of the western media services give this type of balance when it comes to the likes of Ukraine ?



RT is far from perfect , theres certainly some rubbish on it, some of its contributors have a definite bias as well, but on the whole its a damn sight more balanced than the western news services. And had she any actual proof of editorial interference Im quite sure Liz Wahl would have come out with it . She didnt, because in her case there simply wasnt any so she lied.


Are neo nazis in SS helmets pelting molotov cocktails by the hundreds peace pro democracy activists..as the BBC repeatedly described them ? Yes or no .

 

[DairyQueen]

C'mon, while I like (find it interesting) hearing the Russian state's perspective particularly since it is tailored to the western audience, it is still as bad as the rest of them. I just don't like it being singled out.

 

[SpineyNorman]

nobody has remotely said theres no bias, your being a disingenuous little shit now making up your own strawman .

Your constant and uncritical repetition of everything they say and your defensiveness at any kind of criticism directed towards RT suggests otherwise but if that's not the case I apologise.

If I'm wrong I suppose you must have problems with, and criticisms of, RT. What are they?

Also, while I don't deny being a shit I do take exception to being called little.

 

[Casually Red]

I have seen people claiming that in fact 150 people were burnt to death in Odessa (apparently in the basement) and then their remains 'disappeared'.
Today an RT stringer (ie someone who a lot of people believe) is claiming 100 people were shot in Mariupol yesterday.

The truth is already bad enough without indulging a load of invented bullshit, which means I want to see actual decent evidence, believable witnesses, coherent analysis - not a load of horseshit.

I think that was the same RT stringer in Mariupol who ended up shot in the stomach himself . Not a very good example to pick to undermine the claims of casualties

http://rt.com/news/157976-mariupol-rt-stringer-wounded/

the junta themselves boast they killed over 20 there .For every one person killed a ratio of approximately 4 injured seems perfectly believable , particularly during a military offensive deliberately staged on a day when most of the town was out on the streets celebrating Victory day .

Theyre not just using Aks, theyre using 14.5 mm heavy machine guns and automatic cannon mounted on their APCs in built up areas on a day when the town was out on the streets celebrating . Massive rounds that will go right through a wall like its butter , that will travel for well over a mile, fired in built up areas packed with civilians.They were also firing RPG7 rockets . Theyre shooting unarmed people dead out of hand, shooting people in the legs with Kalshnikovs as a means of crowd control . Bullets were ricocheting everywhere . It was going on for the best part of a day . They also deliberately shot that RT stringer in the stomach at close range .

With 20 shot dead in a crowded town centre with that level of indiscriminate and heavy calibre gunfire along with small arms fire on crowded streets another 70 or so wounded is perfectly believable and exactly what one would expect .

And its exactly what they set out to do when those forces specifically chose a day when they knew the streets would be packed to launch a military offensive .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ariupol-as-Putin-marks-victory-in-Crimea.html

 

[Casually Red]

Your constant and uncritical repetition of everything they say and your defensiveness at any kind of criticism directed towards RT suggests otherwise but if that's not the case I apologise.

If I'm wrong I suppose you must have problems with, and criticisms of, RT. What are they?

Also, while I don't deny being a shit I do take exception to being called little.

balls, i reference everything from the Daily Telegraph to the BBC , none of which causes the remotest bit of consternation when addressing a Brit audience because their innate Russophobia simply doesnt get triggered. I use RT references to show stuff none of the rest of them are showing , because the western coverage is absolutely shit, utterly atrocious. It simply doesnt show it.

Ive criticised RT myself . What I have done though is highlight the lack of substance to some particular criticism . see my reply to coolfonz

 

[Casually Red]

C'mon, while I like (find it interesting) hearing the Russian state's perspective particularly since it is tailored to the western audience, it is still as bad as the rest of them. I just don't like it being singled out.

no offence but im personally unaware of Peter Tatchell being employed to give the Russian states perspective . Sure theres bias and propaganda there but theres a hell of a lot more going on than that . The western media just goes with one narrative and then a few quibbles over details . You can actually get a variety of diametrically opposed narratives on RT if youre patient enough . Unlike the western media they arent afraid to let a diametrically opposed view on . If they dont let it on they have no way of challenging it .
And thats supposed to be their job in the west afterall, challenging those views and putting an alternative accross . Sometimes they get one good enough to wipe the floor with them . They simply cant have a go at those individuals and narratives if they dont let them on in the first place . But the western media mostly dont even bother . They just have an echo chamber and let a bumbling idiot stumble into it the odd time .

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

I think you're kind of putting the cart before the horse, saying "it's impossible", given that the propaganda model exists outside of the media it influences, and therefore can't "create biased journalists" per se. It can only exist in an environment where those media accept the predicates of the propaganda model pre-existant to the creation of actual propaganda.
In other words, you have to have already drunk some of the Kool-Aid, prior to engaging in journalism as a career. You need to already have accepted "the system" in order to engage with it. That isn't a product of the propaganda model, it's a product of capitalist ideology.

I don't quite get what you mean by the "propaganda model exists outside of the media it influences" as the propaganda model views the media as a business model, or in Herman's words a "guided market system," which makes it parallel to the media it influences. And I never said that the propaganda model created biased journalists, but instead makes journalist conform to a certain editorial standard of the media organization. Now it's true that the propaganda model focuses on mainstream media in a capitalist system, so capitalism play apart. However, when I say "it's impossible" I'm making a reference to "sourcing" one of Chomskies five filters, which independent and privately funded media organizations struggle the most with, as not only is it impossible for them to employ foreign correspondents, but they also source their news from mainstream media, news agencies and official government statements. The only way to insure that media organization don't full into the trap of the propaganda model is by insuring media organization are completely independent from both government and corporate interests something only crowd funded media has achieved, but they still often fail on sourcing trap through their poor level of funding, or just shoddy quality of journalism.

 

[Casually Red]

Y

Also, while I don't deny being a shit I do take exception to being called little.

im simply not prepared to call you a massive shit . Its abusive to the point of uncalled for .
Ill just withdraw the little and the shit and insert cheeky scamp instead.

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

no offence but im personally unaware of Peter Tatchell being employed to give the Russian states perspective . Sure theres bias and propaganda there but theres a hell of a lot more going on than that . The western media just goes with one narrative and then a few quibbles over details . You can actually get a variety of diametrically opposed narratives on RT if youre patient enough . Unlike the western media they arent afraid to let a diametrically opposed view on . If they dont let it on they have no way of challenging it .
And thats supposed to be their job in the west afterall, challenging those views and putting an alternative accross . Sometimes they get one good enough to wipe the floor with them . They simply cant have a go at those individuals and narratives if they dont let them on in the first place . But the western media mostly dont even bother . They just have an echo chamber and let a bumbling idiot stumble into it the odd time .

What do you think of these report from RT of blackwater in Ukraine? I can't find the original German articles to trace the original source. Nonetheless, being Eric Prince is still hiding out in the United Arab Emirates and the last time I checked building them a private army, it seems probably due to Qatari and United Arab Emirates vested interest in Ukraine. Especially being they seem to want to take from Russia as Europe's key energy suppliers.

 

[Casually Red]

What do you think of these report from RT of blackwater in Ukraine? I can't find the original German articles to trace the original source. Nonetheless, being Eric Prince is still hiding out in the United Arab Emirates and the last time I checked building them a private army, it seems probably due to Qatari and United Arab Emirates vested interest in Ukraine. Especially being they seem to want to take from Russia as Europe's key energy suppliers.

id need to see the original german articles first before I make up my mind...i think they mentioned one of them was from Der Bild quoting unnamed german intelligence sources.
But just offhand I dont think its all that astounding . We know for sure the junta cant trust a lot of its own forces due to everything from unwillingness to shoot , double agents and outright defection, its been reduced to such desperation its even brought back conscription so plainly theyve a trained manpower shortage. Its much too reliant on these militias by the looks of things who may well be willing to shoot but not that tactically and technically proficient . So bringing in mercs is the logical solution to all those problems . And the likes of Barbara Nuland and McCain would be only too willing to send them .
And as the point of the Kiev exercise is to secure US interests then again its the logical answer to Kievs massive failure thus far to secure US interests . Basically theyd surprise me more if they didnt send them in than if they did. I dont see any reason why it wouldnt happen and plenty of reasons why it would. It seems the logical answer to Kiev and the US state departments problems.

 

[Casually Red]

theres the junta fucked now

Banda Bassotti are backing the anti fascist resistance

yeeeoowww

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

id need to see the original german articles first before I make up my mind...i think they mentioned one of them was from Der Bild quoting unnamed german intelligence sources.
But just offhand I dont think its all that astounding . We know for sure the junta cant trust a lot of its own forces due to everything from unwillingness to shoot , double agents and outright defection, its been reduced to such desperation its even brought back conscription so plainly theyve a trained manpower shortage. Its much too reliant on these militias by the looks of things who may well be willing to shoot but not that tactically and technically proficient . So bringing in mercs is the logical solution to all those problems . And the likes of Barbara Nuland and McCain would be only too willing to send them .
And as the point of the Kiev exercise is to secure US interests then again its the logical answer to Kievs massive failure thus far to secure US interests . Basically theyd surprise me more if they didnt send them in than if they did. I dont see any reason why it wouldnt happen and plenty of reasons why it would. It seems the logical answer to Kiev and the US state departments problems.

Yes I'm kind of the same, I'm reluctant to give credit to any reports of Blackwater as normally it's the first name that pops up in all right wing conspiracy forums. However, taking into account current events, the reluctance to use the Ukrainian army and reports of Chechan militants anything is possible. One thing I find interesting is all of the media keeps mentioning the "Ukrainian national guard" rather then the Ukrainian army, it would seem taking into account what I read on pages of Right Sector officers "Ukrainian national guard" is nothing more than a PR term created for right sector militant wing.

 

[Casually Red]

Yes I'm kind of the same, I'm reluctant to give credit to any reports of Blackwater as normally it's the first name that pops up in all right wing conspiracy forums. However, taking into account current events, the reluctance to use the Ukrainian army and reports of Chechan militants anything is possible. One thing I find interesting is all of the media keeps mentioning the "Ukrainian national guard" rather then the Ukrainian army, it would seem taking into account what I read on pages of Right Sector officers "Ukrainian national guard" is nothing more than a PR term created for right sector militant wing.

ive been highlighting this from shortly after the junta was installed, posting pics and videos of their training and spelling out their job would be suppressing the civilian population in the east. The National Guard seems to be little more than Right Sector and their followers being given a gun and a badge by the state and sent eastwards as an instrument of mass repression and terror.

Theres been a few on here almost insisting it didnt exist because the junta werent putting Yaroshes name and title on their official website , and claiming even that they werent fascists, heaping the ridicule on when it was mentioned . I basically consider such types as fash apologists at this point due not just to the wilfullness but the blatant cynicism of those denials when it was plain what was going on and what would inevitably happen next.

And when it was being set up the only english language media I could find any information on it was RT. Which resulted in the usual yah boo RT lies russophobia thats rampant in Britain accross the political spectrum. But its clear now this is whos carrying out the bulk of the shootings and repression in eastern ukraine , theres no hiding it any more and thats the only reason the western media media are sometimes identifying them. The little black men are too ubiquitous and killing too many people in broad daylight to ignore completely .
I dont find it all surprising for example the Right Sector National Guard decided to commit a massacre in Mariupol the very day the locals were celebrating victory over fascism , if i were a fascist such displays would irk me too.

The National Guard have been formed simply because the regular military cant be trusted to carry out the mass terror the junta requires to enforce its writ and they knew it. And the fascists are the men for that job. As are the fascist football ultras who carried out the Odessa massacre. Its brownshirtism whether in or out of uniform. Its impossible to know whether that fat fascist pig shooting at the people in that burning building was wearing his right sector hat or his National guard hat on the day in question. And ultimately it makes no difference as its the same hat on behalf of the same junta doing the same job .


I also think Blackwater now refer to themselves as Acadamie these days...or something like that .

 

[pocketscience]

Here's a Spiegel article from sunday running the claim. They say the story originally comes from Bild am Sonntag, which as you probably know is a pile of shit and on a par with NotW.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausla...emi-kaempfen-gegen-separatisten-a-968745.html
Eta: The claim doesn't seem to have much substance tbf

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

Sorry guys really graphic video (so no kiddies), but kind has to be embedded, as everyone will bypass it if I just add the link.

Anyway not to sure if this is real, or not, but most certainly looks real.

A pro-Russia activist, hung by right sector members, around his neck hangs a sign "Московљане на гиљотину!“ Moscovites to the Guillotine.

What I find shocking about the video is not only does it bring back memories of the Mayor of Chop that was beaten up and tied to a tree, but also the guy is in Blue uniform with a Ukrainian badge on his arm which looks like a police officer.

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

 

[classicdish]

I think that was the same RT stringer in Mariupol who ended up shot in the stomach himself

No someone else.

For every one person killed a ratio of approximately 4 injured seems perfectly believable

He didn't say injured. He claimed there were over 100 killed. He claimed he got this from a doctor, but was unable to provide any other details whatsoever. Other journalists who had been round hospitals and morgues had a far lower figure and were asking him to back up what he claimed. Instead he started making personal attacks on them. Afaict he hasn't bothered going to any hospitals or morgues, hasn't tried locating any family or friends of the dead. A a couple of days later he sticks up some vox pops he did in the street where one guy repeats this claim of 100 dead, but again doesn't provide any details about where and when this supposedly happened. His latest story is that loads of dead bodies were incinerated in the police station and/or have been taken away and 'dumped in the woods' - again from some unnamed 'source'.

It is clear that people died in Mariupol. My objection is to people simply inventing numbers or quoting rumours as if they are true without any kind of verification or investigation.

 

[frogwoman]

Shit 7 ukrainian soldiers killed according to the ukrainian army

 

[yield]

Shit 7 ukrainian soldiers killed according to the ukrainian army

Reuters. Tue May 13, 2014

Six Ukrainian soldiers were killed and eight wounded in an ambush by pro-Russian separatists near the eastern Ukrainian town of Kramatorsk, the Defense ministry said.

It said an armored column had come under fire as it approached a bridge. Two were killed when an armored car was hit and four others in an ensuing gunfight, a ministry statement said.

 

[DairyQueen]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/13/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/

Looks like the ambush was retribution?

A car carrying the "Luhansk people's governor" Valeriy Bolotov was fired on Tuesday in the Luhansk region, said Vasiliy Nikitin, a spokesman for the self-declared "Luhansk People's Republic."

Bolotov suffered a gunshot injury, but Nikitin said it was "light" and not life threatening. It is not known who was behind the shooting.

 

[frogwoman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27392074

Saw this earlier - the mayor thing I mean. And I just read something else saying another soldier has since died.

The article I posted has some reports of Ukrainians leaving Donetsk. Are there any reports of Russians fleeing from there or other parts of Ukraine, I'm sure its happened but I haven't seen any.

 

[DairyQueen]

classicdish - The Odessa thing is pretty dodgy. The numbers could be pretty high.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/odessa-who-is-to-blame-for-46-odessa-deaths-346817.html

They are now reporting 46 deaths (it was less before). All of those identified were from Odessa. Kyiv Post is very pro-European and pro-west, and they even write (although this sounds like an excuse to put get rid off less obedient officials in Odessa as opposed to a genuine attempt at uncovering the facts)...

“What for me was the worst thing was that the firing came from behind the police line, from behind their shields,” Minyayev said. “They couldn’t have not seen it. It’s proof to me that they didn’t just let it happen, they supported it.”

Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Oleh Makhnitskiy agrees.
“We can speak of not just (police) inactivity, but of collaboration,” Makhnitskiy told Channel 5 on May 6.
Two criminal investigations of the Odessa events have been opened – one 0f the police actions and the other of the violent riots. Meanwhile, a range of Odessa top officials have been fired and replaced, including the chief of regional police and the governor of Odessa Oblast.

The Russians put the figure much higher... and are reporting this...

The acting head of Ukraine's Security Service (SBU), Valentin Nalyvaichenko, has confirmed the presence of "some substance" in the Odessa Trade Unions House that caused a fire in the building during May 2 clashes between Right Sector militia and federalization supporters.

 

[pocketscience]

Some gunmen trying to stop people voting at a polling station on sunday opened fire and shot civilians:

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It was just up the road from where that ambush took place too.

 

[pocketscience]

classicdish

The acting head of Ukraine's Security Service (SBU), Valentin Nalyvaichenko, has confirmed the presence of "some substance" in the Odessa Trade Unions House that caused a fire in the building during May 2 clashes between Right Sector militia and federalization supporters.

Make of this what you will but there were definitely a lot of anti federalist people inside the TU building.
See the following video. At 1:50 there's a fire started in the stairwell with only anti federalist in the vicinity:

 

[SpineyNorman]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/13/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/

Looks like the ambush was retribution?

Depressing but not surprising - given how they've been carrying on it was only a matter of time.