Ukraine

[Eastern-Odyssey]

US government operated Radio Svoboda interviewing leader of the UNA-UNSO Yuri Shuhevich:



Plus this report makes interesting reading on the media bullshit coming out. Filmed before the coup when Andrew Beleicki the leader of Patriots of Ukraine was arrested. Despite interviewing someone from Patriots of Ukraine and filming a group of what the US state department is now call heavily armed men in balaclavas, they leave no mention over the groups ideology, but if anything paint them as innocent victims of human rights abuses. The problem is often the Western media get their stories from garbage US channels such as Radio Svoboda. http://www.radiosvoboda.org/content/article/25265385.html

 

[Eastern-Odyssey]

No you didn't. Chomsky makes one point about media filters over and over. It's the one that i just repeated - and he makes it against yours.

Well my original point was "it's impossible for any media source not to fit to some degree into the Herman/Chomsky's propaganda model". The problem is the propaganda model in itself creates biased journalists as journalists have to conform to the policies of the organization.

by the selection of right-thinking personnel and by the editors' and working journalists' internalization of priorities and definitions of newsworthiness that conform to the institution's policy

We believe that what journalists do, what they see as newsworthy, and what they take for granted as premises of their work are frequently well
explained by the incentives, pressures, and constraints incorporated into such a structural analysis

 

[pocketscience]

I hate RT because it's shit. Anyone who doesn't think that it's shit after this, well, i'll never trust anything out of your mouth ever again.

And on that bombshell...

 

[pocketscience]

It appears from the pictures on both sides (RT / BBC, Guardian, CNN, CNN. FOX, VIZ etc) that the referendum had a fairly large turn out. The voters appeared to represent a good portion of working class society in the eastern oblasts. Not just the little green men/ russian fascists as expected.
Although I'm sceptical of the legal integrity and transparency of the referendum, it certainly sends big fuck off message to the kiev government. The clear message to them being that if they do intend to rule these regions from the barrel of a gun, they'll have to deal with the general public once the paramilitaries have been wiped out.
In a way, as flawed as the referendum is, the nature of it has been more civil, democratic and organised than the last days of Maidan, Maidans aftermath and the subsequent interim government.
I hope it brings the kiev government to shed some of it's arrogance & agression. Will be interesting to see how things develop from here.

 

[frogwoman]

Wonder how many anti Russia Ukrainians voted though? I think that the result was pre decided from the start and it was obvious that the organizers weren't going to take no for an answer.

 

[DairyQueen]

My view of RT hasn't declined in the slightest. I'm inviting people to say they trust RT now today. But obv either no one does or they won't say that they do.

But that should be the same with any news agency? I am not sure what you mean by 'trust', they will just be reporting what the rebels/Russians tell them. The BBC have just been reporting what the Ukrainians tell them.

 

[butchersapron]

So no one will say it. OK. By trust i mean tend to believe what they report on the news - the facts of it - as being the case. Doesn't matter though does it, because we'll just get another round of but what about the BBC?

 

[butchersapron]

And on that bombshell...

Wow. I thought some of my posts last night were shit. But fucking hell...

 

[butchersapron]

Seriously - this but what abut the BBC - all this does is line people up within your political imaginary with the state broadcaster of their home country. Ridiculous way to proceed. And by line up i mean approach them as if they a) have a role in producing that state broadcasters interests b) have a role and interest in formulating their line and c) are actively involved in defending both those interests and the line developed to defend or further them.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Strange that. I watched a BBC journalist on Youtube interviewing a young nazi in Kiev who gave a conspiracy theory involving jews and russians. And is that guy not an "utter woofbark":

Were the comments received uncritically and without question? Does he have his own show?

 

[Idris2002]

Is that real Can you imagine if leaders had personal websites in the past? 'Adolf enjoys watercolour painting and playing with his Alsatian Blondie'

You're joking of course, but in the mid-30s Life magazine had a big feature of Adolf at home at Berchtesgarden.

It has now been removed from the internet.

 

[Casually Red]

I posted that last Monday (5th May) - it is now Saturday (10th May). Things have escalated since then, but they still haven't started using bombs or artillery for example, and only one or two helicopter attacks reported afaics. The Kiev government still seems reluctant to go 'all out'.

I don't know how many police there were inside that building, how they were killed or why exactly. There are conflicting reports.

they were using mortars at the weekend

 

[Casually Red]

He did not call Hitler a liberator. He said that Hitler used the *excuse* or *pretext* of being a libertor.

You got this misinformation straight from RT, which is being dishonest in its translation of the speech.

im assuming then the woman pulling the microphone from him and the booing crowds were also digitally altered characters inserted by RT also

 

[butchersapron]

No that happened. As did the rt made up nonsense report of what he'd said. Why didn't you address that post of the post that you're replying to?

 

[Casually Red]

Yes I have.
Have I suggested it was "all staged"?
You can see what issues have raised about CR's claims in my previous posts. No need to repeat everything.

you have most certainly suggested it was staged, by referring to posts youve seen on the internet suggesting it was staged when questioning its authenticity . Why you now deny that is anyones guess but im assuming disingenousness shitness were even a murdered pregnant woman isnt off limits .

BTW I first saw it as a gloating internet meme from the Ukrainian right, quite proud of their handiwork . Its exactly the stuff their hero Bandera actively encouraged.

 

[butchersapron]

Fantastic stuff! Bravo!

 

[Casually Red]

Another 'for example'...

Apparently these guys were stopped today with 100,000 ballots that had already been stamped "YES" for independence of Donetsk (alongside guns etc).

Of course straight away you've got to ask if you actually believe this or think it might be a government / Right Sector / CIA fake to discredit tomorrow's scheduled poll.

I'm keeping an open mind at the moment - either is plausible theory, but I want to see more / better evidence.

who were they stopped by ? who is providing this evidence ? are you posting fascist propaganda on here and not telling us its source ?

 

[butchersapron]

And now he tops the chutzpah of his last post. Astonishing stuff.

 

[classicdish]

who were they stopped by ? who is providing this evidence ?

I don't know.

are you posting fascist propaganda on here and not telling us its source ?

I already said it might be fake. But then again it might be genuine.
Source = youtube.

 

[classicdish]

you have most certainly suggested it was staged, by referring to posts youve seen on the internet suggesting it was staged when questioning its authenticity . Why you now deny that is anyones guess but im assuming disingenousness shitness were even a murdered pregnant woman isnt off limits .

Then quote me.

 

[Mikey77]

No you didn't. Chomsky makes one point about media filters over and over. It's the one that i just repeated - and he makes it against yours.

I said I did. Why make pointless fucking posts?? I heard the man make the point on Youtube. Go and look for his interviews on manufacturing consent.

Well my original point was "it's impossible for any media source not to fit to some degree into the Herman/Chomsky's propaganda model". The problem is the propaganda model in itself creates biased journalists as journalists have to conform to the policies of the organization.

Read it and use your brain butchersapron. The above was the point Chomsky made on Youtube. Journalists who do not follow the editorial line will never make it within media organisations. He did not state in that interview that the ones that do tow the line are "unbiased".

 

[butchersapron]

Ffs - an unbiased journalist (or one as unbiased as its possible to be) cannot get their stuff through the editorial and other interest led filters. Their failure to do so does not then make them biased journalists. It makes them unpublished. Others then can fit in with the filters (often without realising it) and get published. Tell me where i'm wrong when i say that structural filters produce filtered news not biased journalists. That even 'unbiased' journalist' get filtered.

 

[Casually Red]

Wonder how many anti Russia Ukrainians voted though? I think that the result was pre decided from the start and it was obvious that the organizers weren't going to take no for an answer.

lets get this straight, your claiming that the organisers of it somehow mysteriously made all those people turn up in their thousands all over the place against their will ? were they bussed in from Moscow too ?

while previously claiming over a number of pages this was the pretext for an imminent Russian invasion .

its worth noting that the Kharkov region seems to have heeded Putins advice and not had its one, so it doesnt appear anything has been pre decided . You just dont like the way people have voted in obviously massive numbers. A few more of them, plainly unarmed, were shot dead outside the polling booths yesterday for simply trying to vote . Looks like it was Right sector again .

 

[Mikey77]

Ffs - an unbiased journalist (or one as unbiased as its possible to be) cannot get their stuff through the editorial and other interest led filters. Their failure to do so does not then make them biased journalists. It makes them unpublished. Others then can fit in with the filters (often without realising it) and get published. Tell me where i'm wrong when i say that structural filters produce filtered news not biased journalists. That even 'unbiased' journalist' get filtered.

I'm not saying you are wrong or that Chomsky does not have that theory. I said I heard Chomsky explain things differently which would make sense because when you say "often without realising it" it means that the filtering process also rewards those who do realise it. Chomsky must have been focusing on the latter in the interview I seen.

I would then question how often Chomsky believes these unbiased journalists who are unaware their view is not nearly impartial are reporting the news. From my experience of the media, and even things like academic reports, or Wikipedia I believe people are more often than not in a booh-hurrah state of mind and know exactly what they are doing.

I have in the past pressed people who are pretending to be open minded and impartial into the ground and have found they are full of unprincipled hatred, and shit when you corner them in your argument. When a journalist chooses not to focus on people being burned and beaten to death, or civilians being killed by drone strikes I don't believe for a moment that person does so because they were unbiased but were filtered in the right way.

 

[Casually Red]

She's pathetically bad at it though, and everything she says is rebutted. The host has an obvious bias as well. I'd say presenting the illusion of real debate - by allowing someone utterly useless and clueless to come on from the other side - is a far more effective propaganda strategy than only allowing one 'side'.

I don't think there's much to pick between them on this topic to be honest and for most news the BBC is far more reliable (their unwillingness to give conspiracy theorists and antisemites and uncritical platform puts them ahead IMO)

hold on now..her english is perfectly understandable, theres no comparison. The fact is the line she is trying to spin is a complete load of bollocks when the opportunity is there for others to rebut it . Barbara Nuland came a serious cropper in the senate just the other day when trying to do the same thing against people from the US republican party prepared to challenge her narrative . RT certainly didnt stage manage that .

when this stuff is discussed in depth on RT by their journalists they are pointing out its in their interests as a news channel to have heavyweight figures on their shows in order to grill them . They invite them on all the time . All too often they are refusing to come on using the excuse that its Putins mouthpiece simply in order to duck the debate and the more serious grilling theyll get on there than on the likes of the pre programmed BBC. RT invite them to appear and explain themselves, they simply refuse . Thats not RTs fault . They cant physically make them turn up .
The state department at their press conferences regularly refuse to even answer their questions

 

[Casually Red]

Military opening fire on more civilians.

thats paramilitaries by the looks of it preventing people from voting by closing their polling booth and then shooting completely unarmed civilians who werent even rioting. For trying to vote .

but somehow staged by RT, because its not on BBC and their beloved Guardian arent pointing it out .

 

[Kaka Tim]

What do people think is the best coverage of Ukraine amongst the mainstream media?

not for the first time, Channel 4 have been noticeably better than the other UK broadcasters. RT are a bad joke - they have been indulging in hystercial shroudwaving from the start. The western broadcast media - having been cheerleading for the kiev nationalists from the start, have dug a hole for themselves where they now have to ignore or playdown atrocities on the Kiev regime side in order to justify their previous position. How are Al J covering this?

 

[DotCommunist]

the beeb news have the organiser of this vote as a 'pro russian seperatist'. Now that sounds plausible but given how they've been on this situation so far I have to ask- are they talking arse or calling it accurately?

 

[classicdish]

the beeb news have the organiser of this vote as a 'pro russian seperatist'. Now that sounds plausible but given how they've been on this situation so far I have to ask- are they talking arse or calling it accurately?

What is the person's name?

 

[frogwoman]

Al jaz probably the best Kaka Tim