Ukraine

[Casually Red]

I agree. I don't think it fits any reasonable definition of term. If it had been something done to Ukrainians only, then the label might work, but as it was, it was at best "murder by bureaucracy" of elements of the Soviet Union's peoples. Managerialist callousness didn't and doesn't just manifest in capitalist economies. there will always be beancounters who think about the beans as beans, not as people.

britain wiped out almost half our population by removing the food supply . Does that jsutify us wiping out protestants, hating protestants, being Natos invasion force, neo nazis, white priders...does it fuck. Its scum. WE lost millions too .

your a fucking embarassment. A disgrace pontificating about leftism and justifying this fascist shit..imf, nato, putsch and neo nazis

and you the pontificating little wankstain crowing about piss stained curs over a quenelle from some footballer, someone jiggling their elbow

fuck off you joke

take yourself off to fuck you sanctimionioius little prick

 

[Casually Red]

My great-grandma, who lost over half her family to the famine (and then the rest to the Nazis and their Ukrainian fascist helpers a decade later), called it for what it was - callous, uncaring realpolitik.

mine was hired out, as a slave ......look up hiring fairs . Most of her family starved to death...they had to literally sell her to keep a few of them alive..they had to choose who lived and who died . Does that mean I get to join neo nazi organisations.. ? Nothing justifies these neo nazi cunts. Absolutely nothing and certainly not your hardly disgguised ethnic hatred for russians.

you and 2 other wankstains pontificating about leftism superior to all and sundry...jesus christ.

 

[Casually Red]

feed your army, motherfuckers !!!

 

[seventh bullet]

Casually Google doesn't defend governments that starve people.

 

[Rimbaud]

Casually Red might be way too partisan in this, but in all honesty this thread would really suck if it was just everybody condemning Russia. I don't agree with him entirely but I find it useful that he is giving the other side of the story.

 

[Casually Red]

Casually Red might be way too partisan in this, but in all honesty this thread would really suck if it was just everybody condemning Russia. I don't agree with him entirely but I find it useful that he is giving the other side of the story.

all due respect, but partisanship aside . Im not on the side cheering on juntas, NATO, Banderites, IMF austerity, nazis and the CIA . Im supporting communists, miners,steelworkers, teachers etc.
And any single one of those geebags....VP..BA or DB...pipes up and says weres their support for nazis. Just ask them wheres their codemnation...non existant anywhere

this is the shit being taught to schoolkids now
hang the russians....theres a few on here perfectly fine with the sentiment

 

[seventh bullet]

'Show ignored content,' lol.

 

[Casually Red]

Singing a different song...internationale...

 

[sunny jim]

These are taken from the Right Sectors facebook page

 

[sunny jim]

 

[sunny jim]

 

[sunny jim]

I think people should reserve their enmity for these people rather than the people of eastern Ukraine who are fighting against them. Just a thought.

 

[TopCat]

Casually Red might be way too partisan in this, but in all honesty this thread would really suck if it was just everybody condemning Russia. I don't agree with him entirely but I find it useful that he is giving the other side of the story.

I am waving a fuck off hammer and sickle over this.

 

[Fuchs66]

I think people should reserve their enmity for these people rather than the people of eastern Ukraine who are fighting against them. Just a thought.

Or how about realising it's not a black and white, good guys - bad guys situation and that there are elements on both sides that deserve this enmity.

 

[sunny jim]

Or how about realising it's not a black and white, good guys - bad guys situation and that there are elements on both sides that deserve this enmity.

Funny how you dont seem to criticise the neo nazis of the new regime, why is that?

edit : If you're criticism was equal for both sides I could take your point but it never is.

 

[Fuchs66]

Funny how you dont seem to criticise the neo nazis of the new regime, why is that?

edit : If you're criticism was equal for both sides I could take your point but it never is.

I sort of assumed that with such a short and simple post there would be no room for misunderstanding, I guess I underestimated some people's need to deliberately misinterpret.

I'll give you a clue the key words are "both sides".

 

[sunny jim]

I sort of assumed that with such a short and simple post there would be no room for misunderstanding, I guess I underestimated some people's need to deliberately misinterpret.

I'll give you a clue the key words are "both sides".

Cut the crap and show me where you have criticised the new regime in Kiev.

 

[Fuchs66]

Cut the crap and show me where you have criticised the new regime in Kiev.

Show me where I have directly supported them?
Since when do we have to give a thoroughly balanced view on every single topic so that nobody feels left out?
I speak from my experiences in Russia, I have no experience or contact with Ukrainian neo-Nazi groups (neither I suppose have you) therefore I have no way of personally assessing their strength, goals or influence in this situation and I certainly don't trust the media on either side.

 

[sunny jim]

Bullshit! While neo nazis have taken ministerial positions in the new regime in Kiev all your posts have been about how bad Russia is. Not fucking once have you even mildly criticised out and out fascists, who were put into government by a CIA backed coup. Its always 'big, bad Russia' not 'shit, fascists have, for the first time since WW2, gained power in a European country'. And then you make out you're being fair and there's two sides to the story - get to fuck, you apologist for nazism twat.

 

[Fuchs66]

Bullshit! While neo nazis have taken ministerial positions in the new regime in Kiev all your posts have been about how bad Russia is. Not fucking once have you even mildly criticised out and out fascists, who were put into government by a CIA backed coup. Its always 'big, bad Russia' not 'shit, fascists have, for the first time since WW2, gained power in a European country'. And then you make out you're being fair and there's two sides to the story - get to fuck, you apologist for nazism twat.

Neither have I supported the Kiev regime!

Where have I said I've been fair, I'm speaking from experience which by it's nature is bound to be subjective.
And to be honest where is the rule that states I have to be fair and where is your post of a Ukrainian neo-Nazi stroking a kitten to introduce some balance to your posts?

 

[DownwardDog]

Has anyone ordered their Invasion of Crimea silver commemorative coin yet?

At 1kg of Ag it could be used to club a fascist in extremis.

 

[sunny jim]

Neither have I supported the Kiev regime!

Where have I said I've been fair, I'm speaking from experience which by it's nature is bound to be subjective.
And to be honest where is the rule that states I have to be fair and where is your post of a Ukrainian neo-Nazi stroking a kitten to introduce some balance to your posts?

So you admit you're not being fair. You don't seem to think neo nazism deserves any criticism. Right, got you now.

 

[Fuchs66]

So you admit you're not being fair. You don't seem to think neo nazism deserves any criticism. Right, got you now.

Again a deliberate misinterpretation, neo-nazism always deserves criticism regardless of whether it is German, Ukrainian, British or Russian, but to reduce this conflict to that one issue is IMO an over-simplification of the current situation.

 

[butchersapron]

Imagine jim prodding you in the chest with a gun in eastern ukraine or in lviv demanding things of you and others like above.

 

[sunny jim]

Again a deliberate misinterpretation, neo-nazism always deserves criticism regardless of whether it is German, Ukrainian, British or Russian, but to reduce this conflict to that one issue is IMO an over-simplification of the current situation.

Neo nazism, along with IMF austerity and a CIA backed coup, is what this crisis is about. Not once have mentioned that, let alone criticised it. So, pretty similar to tacit support for those three factors.

 

[sunny jim]

Imagine jim prodding you in the chest with a gun in eastern ukraine or in lviv demanding things of you and others like above.

What does that obscure nonsense even mean?

 

[Rimbaud]

Imagine jim prodding you in the chest with a gun in eastern ukraine or in lviv demanding things of you and others like above.

Or on Maidan Square a couple months ago...

How exactly are the rebels in Donetsk behaving differently from people during any other uprising ever? Or are all armed rebellions fascist now?

 

[butchersapron]

Can anyone find anything to back up/undermine the claims of the head of the Independent Trade Union of Miners of Ukraine in Krivii Rig (or the union - i've found stuff that claims its the largest and most important union) about how thye miners are organising, what they're doing and why that appeared here (or on the bloke himself):

In Luhansk, 35 miles from the Russian border, more than 1,000 took to the streets to protest the provocations April 13. Sizable rallies also took place in Odessa and Zaporizhia. More than 1,000 rallied in Kharkiv April 12. And hundreds of miners and others rallied in the city square of the eastern mining city of Krivii Rig.

“We’ve been in contact with miners in Luhansk, Donetsk and other cities,” Yuriy Petrovych, president of the city-wide Independent Trade Union of Miners of Ukraine in Krivii Rig, told the Militant April 9. “Miners know that if Russia seizes some of our cities, there will be no work in the mines within a month. We know what’s at stake and we are determined to fight to keep a united Ukraine. That’s what our comrades in all the eastern cities are organizing to do.”

“We are organized to prevent Russian forces or their supporters from taking any government buildings here,” Petrovych said. “Earlier today we heard there was a possible attack at the city square and we mobilized our self-defense groups to go down. No one showed up. People know we are prepared here.

 

[butchersapron]

Or on Maidan Square a couple months ago...

How exactly are the rebels in Donetsk behaving differently from people during any other uprising ever? Or are all armed rebellions fascist now?

Why do you think that i said lviv - why did i include the ideological base of the ukranian far-right?

Where did i call the people in dontetsk fascists? The fact is, that is the logic of people like jim - but with a little twist - all the ones he doesn't like are fascist - and purely fascist.

 

[Fuchs66]

Neo nazism, along with IMF austerity and a CIA backed coup, is what this crisis is about. Not once have mentioned that, let alone criticised it. So, pretty similar to tacit support for those three factors.

Because I have seen little proof for this (and please don't start a link marathon to RT or similar media)

1. Yes there is much resistance to the IMF's austerity measures but this has been triggered by years of mis-management and bad governance so the amount of blame to be put on the present occupants of government buildings is somewhat limited.
2. Neo-nazism and connections with the above occupants is a worrying factor and should not be ignored or accepted however the scale of this is hard to assess when working through the propaganda from both sides as I stated above
3. CIA connection again hard to assess due to lack of information in open media, to state the level of interference (while no doubt it is there) with the conviction that some do is pure speculation.