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Ukip - why are they gaining support?

I assume that everyone would agree that UKIP are a right wing nationalist party?

So does it follow that everyone who votes for them is either misinformed or a racist?

Personally I don't see why we should not be part of Europe... I would rather be labelled a European than a Brit.
 
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krtek a houby said:
Nah, sorry. Anyone who gives that party the benefit of the doubt deserves pointing out.
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That post didn't even mention "giving them the benefit of the doubt" whatever that means. BA simply pointed out that the possibility of UKIP taking the highest share the euro elections is a new story, and that only cowardly fools like taffboy want the news to hide this fact.
 
butchersapron said:
I, at least, would want to report on UKIP. Your want to ostrich it and think that your viewers and readers deserve nothing less. Than not talking about that thing that's happening.
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Seeing as you're so big on evidence and digging things out, how about a game of "find the post where I said UKIP shouldnt be reported on".

It's a question of proportion, as is the case in a lot of journalistic issues. it's not outlandish to say that the ceaseless attention in the press is out of proportion.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Seeing as you're so big on evidence and digging things out, how about a game of "find the post where I said UKIP shouldnt be reported on".

It's a question of proportion, as is the case in a lot of journalistic issues. it's not outlandish to say that the ceaseless attention in the press is out of proportion.
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I don't have to - your whole thing is that they shouldn't be because they're fanning flames that bareley exist. The place is burning down around you.

Ok, so 15%+ of politics reporting should be UKIP based - that's quite an increase, but you know, your rules...
 
Obnoxiousness said:
I assume that everyone would agree that UKIP are a right wing nationalist party?

So does it follow that everyone who votes for them is either misinformed or a racist?
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Yes, it may be that...and mis-guided might be appropriate as well; though I ought to declare a personal 'interest'......I'd imagine that I'm not alone on here in having parents who, despite my best (subtle?) efforts, have decided to support UKIP.

Amongst a growing body of journalism exploring the phenomena of UKIP support, Behr's recent NS piece based on Cliftonville in Kent had some interesting quotes...

Resentment here is about something more profound than fear of jobs being taken by outsiders or distaste at the sound of alien consonants in the bus queue. It expresses a feeling that all the important decisions are being made elsewhere; that someone in the capital has decided what kind of town this should be and that dissent is ignored or, worse, belittled as the mark of backward provinciality.
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“People feel they’ve lost something.........They may not be able to pinpoint what it is, but they don’t think they’re getting it back.”
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"....it (UKIP) feeds on and fuels pessimism, especially among her older constituents. They have worked hard throughout their lives and find as they reach retirement that they are worse off than they expected to be. They cannot go on holiday or provide treats for their grandchildren. They struggle to heat their homes in winter. These indignities provoke shame and rage. Financial precariousness that was exposed by the Great Recession combines with longer-standing feelings of cultural disorientation to produce a dread of abandonment. Politics in Westminster is judged to be for the benefit of someone else – migrants, welfare recipients, bankers, Brussels bureaucrats.

This is how Farage has been able to position himself as the anti-politician threatening to storm the wicked bastion.
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In the case of my parents I would also add in the raw emotion of betrayal; they have, for the most part, voted deferentially as rural, working class tories...and have (finally) seemed to realise that it has got them nowhere...their level of vitriol for Cameron has been consistent since he gained the leadership of the party.
 
brogdale said:
In the case of my parents I would also add in the raw emotion of betrayal; they have, for the most part, voted deferentially as rural, working class tories...and have (finally) seemed to realise that it has got them nowhere...their level of vitriol for Cameron has been consistent since he gained the leadership of the party.
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As pointed out further up the thread, this is a pretty common phenomenon (with traditional working-class Tory and Labour voters) and mirrors the growth of support for the Tea Party in the US.

Chomsky and Owen Jones could be talking about the same party/faction with branches in different countries almost:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...r-from-owen-jones-to-ukip-voters-9061968.html

Like you – or three-quarters of you – I wouldn't choose the European Union as one of the key issues facing the country, even though I agree the British people should be given a vote on our membership. You think Westminster has become the preserve of career politicians, which is why I agree Parliament desperately need more working-class MPs, rooted in their communities, who understand the everyday concerns of voters.
But our agreement goes so much further than that. A generation ago, our energy suppliers were flogged off to profiteers, some foreign, some British, but all rich and making money out of hard-pressed consumers. No wonder nearly 8 out of 10 of you want energy brought into public ownership – a figure even higher than other voters. You're right: it's time we stop the Big Six holding us to ransom, leaving millions lying awake at night wondering how they can pay the bills, and elderly people shivering in their homes.
It's the same story with our railways, too. You're justifiably angry that the taxpayer is forking out three times more subsidies to our rip-off, inefficient railways, filling the bank accounts of the rail barons while millions are priced out of travelling. So nearly three-quarters of you are right to back bringing rail back into public ownership – again, a higher number than other British voters.
This Government is handing our NHS, one of our country's most valued institutions, to tax-avoiding private health companies who are driven by profit, not the needs of patients. I'm not letting the last Labour government off the hook, before you ask, with their Private Finance Initiative which has left so many of our hospitals saddled with debts. So, like 84 per cent of you, I believe the NHS should be “nationalised and run in the public sector”.
We're spending billions of taxpayers' money subsidising poverty wage-paying bosses, and most people living in poverty in Britain in 2014 have to get up each morning to work. So when two-thirds of you back “a substantial increase” in the minimum wage, I'm with you all the way: it would save money, boost demand in the economy, make work pay, and help stop bosses undercutting wages with cheaper labour, wherever it comes from.
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http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/12...obama-and-the-future-of-progressive-politics/

There are studies of the attitudes of people who call themselves anti-government. You know, “Get the government off my back,” the Tea Party. It turns out they’re pretty much social democrats. They want increased spending on health, on education, on aid for families with dependent children, but of course not “welfare,” because “welfare” was demonized by Reagan’s racism.
They say, “Don’t get involved with the world, but do it sometimes.” It’s a very strange collection.
You remember this guy who stood up at a town hall meeting somewhere and said something like, “Don’t fiddle with my Medicare.” Though the government people laughed, it’s not a joke.
If you look at studies of opinion, it turns out that, by and large, the more people get from the government, the less they think they get, and the more they’re opposed to government. It’s pretty steady. There are some deeply conservative, rural counties in California, which are radically libertarian, which are practically funded by the government.
Those people just don’t seem to understand what’s happening in the world. And, in fact, this anti-government feeling itself is pretty interesting. It’s a kind of pathology in the United States, which reflects a lack of functioning democracy.
Take, say, taxes. Everybody’s against taxes. In a functioning democracy you’d be in favor of them. April 15th would be a day of celebration. You’re getting together to fund the programs that you decided on.
Here it’s a day of mourning. Some alien entity is pouncing on us to take away our hard-earned money, meaning we don’t have a democracy that way.
Ron Paul plays a very strange roll. Whatever his personal goals are, or whatever his understanding is, I have no idea. But if you look at his policies, first of all, they’re pretty vicious. And also, I think they lead to a kind of corporate tyranny. He might not want that or think it, but I think that’s what it means.
The anti-redistributive policies say everybody’s on their own. If you’re a disabled widow across town and your husband didn’t happen to make enough money, you starve.
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Support for social democratic policies is almost as high with UKIP voters as Labour voters

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...british-political-compass-authoritarian-right

This pattern is broadly replicated. "The government should have the power to control energy prices": 83% Ukip, 86% Lab, 60% Con; "The government should have the power to control private sector rents": 50% Ukip, 56% Lab, 32% Con; "The energy companies should be run in the public sector": 73% Ukip, 79% Labour, 52% Con. YouGov warns that people "should be careful about reading too much into a sub-sample", but notwithstanding that caveat they can be "confident in saying that Ukip voters do seem to be more supportive of price controls and nationalisation than their rightwing image might suggest".
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Which is why we get the 'wall of Labour millionaires' and now the xenophobic posters which attempt to exploit legitimate class grievances
 
I wonder how much of that is an age thing, with an older generation (more represented in the UKIP figures) schooled and appreciative of the 'common good'.

Even my ex-girlfriend's very tory octogenarian grandparents were generous believers in society of some kind, for example meticulous sorters of recycling, because they believed it was to make things better (contradicting those who patronisingly claimed stuff like was 'confusing for the old'). It's in contrast to a younger generation raised on suspicion of outsiders, of a belief that society is stuffed with 'takers' at the bottom, and that it's not worth supporting society because piss-takers will take advantage (perhaps right, but they should be looking upwards for those piss-takers, not down).
 
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