Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[treelover]

Now Ukip is gunning for Labour, what's Ed Miliband going to do about it?

It's a misconception that Ukip draws from the right: its biggest support is from Labour's traditional – and disaffected – base

Bolstered by finishing in the top three in six parliamentary byelections that have been held in Labour-controlled seats since 2011, members talk of exploiting the failings of a "liberal metropolitan intelligentsia, which is uncomfortable among working-class voters, failing to defend their interests, and finds their concerns distasteful".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/30/ukip-gunning-labour-ed-miliband

Note the above quoted paragraph, what a lot of people on here have echoed, it could apply to WILOTL as well, future isn't looking good

 

[treelover]

The claim that Ukip is drawing only from the right is one of the big misconceptions in British politics. Our analysis in a forthcoming book on the party reveals that its voters are much more likely to be low-income, financially insecure and working class. They look like old Labour, and since 2010 the Ukip surge has been strongest among these low-skilled, older and blue-collar workers, the exact groups that Labour is struggling with the most. Since its low point in 2009, we find that Labour has made double-digit advances in its vote share among women, the under-35s and graduates, all groups that avoid Ukip. In contrast, Labour has barely grown among men and those with no qualifications, and the party has actually lost ground among pensioners. Among these groups, the Ukip vote has surged by an average of nine percentage points.

This is the same demographic who are voting for euro-nationalist parties across the EU, just what can be done? Middle class People's Assemblies and inward looking new left parties don't seem to be the answer, the IWCA for all its faults seemed to be one path that was worth exploring.

 

[butchersapron]

Certainly makes the first few pages of this thread interesting re-reading - i wonder if the posters challenging me then are still clinging to their "fat old tories" analysis?

 

[treelover]

didn't you author a piece on Red Pepper about the rise of these parties across the EU?

 

[butchersapron]

didn't you author a piece on Red Pepper about the rise of these parties across the EU?

Nah, i did a piece on the BNP which made similar -if more political - points though. Incidentally a german version of the grillo party has just been formed in Germany, after the success of of other new anti-eu parties over there. And Grillo has this week made the demand for an in/out referendum on the eu his key rallying point..

 

[gosub]

This will give them a boost, Benefits for European migrants

Link 1
Link 2

Not sure who the face palm is aimed at.

Given HMG is likely to lose then most likely response is an end to UK's universal benefits to bring us into line with the rest of EUrope

 

[treelover]

Time to move away from this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/31/all-quiet-far-left-front?commentpage=1

 

[gosub]

Whats with UKIP's silence on the Woolwich events?

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffee...arty-just-look-at-their-response-to-woolwich/

 

[ayatollah]

This is the same demographic who are voting for euro-nationalist parties across the EU, just what can be done? Middle class People's Assemblies and inward looking new left parties don't seem to be the answer, the IWCA for all its faults seemed to be one path that was worth exploring.

And ,pray, what do you see as the key "path worth exploring" in the utterly failed IWCA project's "strategy" as being, treelover ? Come on ... spell it out clearly in the cold light of day for us . "Outflanking" the BNP or UKIP's appeal to those sections of the white working class falling for the anti migrant hysteria and Islamophobia built up by the capitalist press by ....... what .? Making concessions to that very same racism and Islamophobia, by adopting slippery political positions which whilst dressing themselves up in the fine language of "anti identity politics" and "listening to the working class", then ends up making demands for immigration controls and campaigns against local councils giving perfectly legitimate grants to ethnic minority projects ? Lovely. Very progressive and radical. Really identifies the real causes of poverty, joblessness, housing shortages, the failing NHS, the world economic crisis, doesn't it ? Oh...... no...... it doesn't does it .. its exactly the same diversionery scapegoating which anti semitism served to divide the working class in the 1930's. And exactly the sort of lumpen racist but pseudo radical "anti capitalism" on which fascist "Strasserism" was based.

This is exactly the logic which led PASOK (and of course New Democracy) in Greece to get really stuck into participating enthusiastically in all the anti immigrant hysteria - hoping to "outflank" the Far Right. Worked brilliantly didn't it ! As Greece, and everywhere else, clearly shows, you can't fight racism by making concessions to it. Concessions only build the racist bonfire higher. Concede today on " EU migrant workers being a problem" , and the Far Right just ups the score- to embrace racist hostility to everyone but Whites.

 

[butchersapron]

Such fear. Just tell the working class they have no interests but yours. Yours. You really are a political idiot. And if anyone disagrees with you, then they are a fascist. Not a jokey fascist, a real fascist. Men like you are no help in times like this.

 

[1%er]

Not sure who the face palm is aimed at.

Given HMG is likely to lose then most likely response is an end to UK's universal benefits to bring us into line with the rest of EUrope

Yes I think you are right, I made that point in a different thread Changing from a means tested benefit to a contribution system would save them millions for sure.

 

[treelover]

http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/the-working-class-movement-wcm/


Ian Bone is positing a new grouping

 

[gosub]

Yes I think you are right, I made that point in a different thread Changing from a means tested benefit to a contribution system would save them millions for sure.

Looks like Labour wants to inverse the EU mainstream..... The more you contribute the less you are intitled to, or how to build justification for tax avoidance

 

[The39thStep]

Interesting article that confirms that the far right see labour territory as profitable as Tory shires. This is exactly what the BNP were able to do.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/30/ukip-gunning-labour-ed-miliband?CMP=twt_gu

 

[Quartz]

Interesting article that confirms that the far right see labour territory as profitable as Tory shires.

Except, of course, the authors make the point that UKIP aren't the far right.

 

[malatesta32]

Nah, i did a piece on the BNP which made similar -if more political - points though. Incidentally a german version of the grillo party has just been formed in Germany, after the success of of other new anti-eu parties over there. And Grillo has this week made the demand for an in/out referendum on the eu his key rallying point..

you got a link for that butchers?

 

[The39thStep]

Except, of course, the authors make the point that UKIP aren't the far right.

They make the point that they aren't the BNP. Have a look at the UKIP economic policies , they are far to the right of the BNP.

 

[butchersapron]

you got a link for that butchers?

Which bit?

 

[butchersapron]

Except, of course, the authors make the point that UKIP aren't the far right.

No they don't - they make the point that they are not the 'toxic far right' and list reasons why, and the potential ramifications of this. Can't you ever read anything properly. The whole point of the article is the attempt at a populist far right move into areas that are seen (rightly or wrongly) as the natural constituency of the left, or at at least not this sort of far-right.

 

[brogdale]

They make the point that they aren't the BNP. Have a look at the UKIP economic policies , they are far to the right of the BNP.

Quite. But then so were/are Labour.

FWIW (with many caveats etc.)...as at 2010. Might be interesting to see movement since then?

 

[The39thStep]

Quite. But then so were/are Labour.

FWIW (with many caveats etc.)...as at 2010. Might be interesting to see movement since then?

is that really of any use?

 

[Quartz]

They make the point that they aren't the BNP. Have a look at the UKIP economic policies , they are far to the right of the BNP.

Per the article:

It's a misconception that Ukip draws from the right

Have a look at the UKIP economic policies, they are far to the right of the BNP.

Really? I've just been reading their taxation policies which are a bit of a mess but some of them seem a good start. A flat tax with a high allowance - £13K per person - and you can use your partner's allowance, so a family doesn't pay tax until they earn over £26K. That will be a big boost to the poor. I just wish they added children into the equation. As I said in another thread, the Left should change their chant from, "Tax the rich" to "Don't tax the poor." I'll admit I don't quite understand their tax on corporate value, but it seems to get around the problem of the likes of Amazon paying so little tax. Of course, they can promise what they will as they're not going to get elected. Their policies are internally inconsistent - the very next page indicates an allowance of £11.5K, and a flat tax of 31% rather than the 25% mentioned on the first page. Some of their policies are very naive: 'Working hours should be agreed between employers and employees; wages and salaries will tend to adjust to provide adequate compensation.' Yeah right: workers need protection. Their economic policies tend to the Libertarian rather than the Right.

 

[butchersapron]

Did you read past the sub-headline? The sub-headline that confuses the research (that the bloody article is about for gods sake) that shows that UKIP draw from a class or social basis that is traditionally labour with them being politically labour.

 

[Quartz]

is that really of any use?

I think so, but only as an indicator. I think that if you were to exclude immigration issues, UKIP would score very differently along the Libertarian axis.

OTOH so many of their policies are subject to Nigel's whim...

 

[brogdale]

is that really of any use?

Tricky one, that.
I suppose as poster I'm the wrong person to ask, but if you think otherwise feel free to you say why?

 

[The39thStep]

Because it is totally vague, be better off if you put political parties against birth signs

 

[treelover]

Paul B Says:
28 May 2013 at 11:37 am
UKIPs next party political broadcast highlights exclusively their leadership discussing/canvassing white working class voters in London. According to the film maker – ironically the wife of a Labour MP – their message, as referenced in the IWCA article, is finding an echo. The latest polls ndicate that this is the case.

posted elsewhere

anyone know who this is?

 

[butchersapron]

Who the film maker is? Austin Mitchell's wife. This is isn't an endorsement by her she is contractually required to make them for all parties.

 

[Dogsauce]

Who the film maker is? Austin Mitchell's wife. This is isn't an endorsement by her she is contractually required to make them for all parties.

Even parties with no sitting MPs? Does that apply to any party then?

 

[butchersapron]

Even parties with no sitting MPs? Does that apply to any party then?

This will be an mep thing I think. And only for official ppbs most likely. Did read an explanation in the link I posted up about this a few weeks back, but can't find right now .