Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[treelover]

Leaving a breakfast event hosted at No.11 for alumni of Magdalen College, Oxford

We are all in this together.

 

[frogwoman]

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/05/16/men-less-likely-identify-sexism/

This is very very interesting regarding support of various parties and sexism, I suggest that people read the whole thing

 

[frogwoman]

http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/axn9p3h3s0/YG-Archive-140512-Sexism.pdf

butchersapron will find this interesting - UKIP voters actually less likely than voters of any other party to have not done any of the items listed as sexist on the list

 

[SpineyNorman]

I'm sure that when you tell her that she is stupid and moralistic for being terrified, and a clever man on the internet says the rise in support for UKIP is just like the Paris Commune she'll feel a lot better

You're a fucking idiot. Nobody said it was just like the Paris Commune. That's a fantasy all of your own.

Why do you think I brought that up Andy you smug know nothing cunt?

 

[brogdale]

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage
Follow
Met @beppe_grillo for lunch today. Huge personality. Great fun to be with.

7:19 PM - 28 May 2014

Reminds me of...

 

[treelover]

Ukip's success lies in talking to workers – but not about class. We can do better
If you remove class identity, the 'them and us' of bosses and workers becomes 'insiders and outsiders', about race and immigration

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/29/ukip-workers-class-identity-race-immigration

Article by Ewa Jasiewicz, journo now, but used to be a Unite Community organiser

 

[butchersapron]

That's a good piece - well the first half, the 2nd wanders off a bit. And i'm always suspicious of the class as identity stuff - but as a start point for recognising where we actually are - and it's not 1933) then it's welcome. This is the stuff that needs to be built on that will drive a wedge between those people she talks about and those who actually run UKIP and would benefit from its growing influence - and without focusing or obsessing on UKIP or centering your political activity and efforts around them.

 

[quiquaquo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...lised-and-licensed-Nigel-Farage-has-said.html

The Ukip leader has said it is party policy for hand guns to be legalised and licensed in the UK despite being banned in the UK for the last 18 years.

Mr Farage said the current ban on the guns, which were made illegal following the school shooting at Dunblane in 1996, was “ludicrous.”


Where will it end?

 

[Dogsauce]

That article's from January.

 

[butchersapron]

A policy that will just be ditched - no votes in it but potential for loon-pinnage.

 

[butchersapron]

The stickability of the UKIP vote - with figures and charts and everything.

 

[Quartz]

Mr Farage said the current ban on the guns, which were made illegal following the school shooting at Dunblane in 1996, was “ludicrous.”

Actually, Farage is correct. The reaction to Dunblane was a political reaction to public opinion:

The Cullen Inquiry into the massacre recommended that the government introduce tighter controls on handgun ownership[11] and consider whether an outright ban on private ownership would be in the public interest in the alternative (though club ownership would be maintained).[12] The report also recommended changes in school security[13] and vetting of people working with children under 18.[14] The Home Affairs Select Committee agreed with the need for restrictions on gun ownership but stated that a handgun ban was not appropriate.

A small group, known as the Gun Control Network was founded in the aftermath of the shootings and was supported by some parents of victims at Dunblane and of the Hungerford Massacre.[15] Bereaved families and their friends also initiated a campaign to ban private gun ownership, named the Snowdrop Petition (because March is snowdrop time in Scotland), which gained 705,000 signatures in support and was supported by some newspapers, including the Sunday Mail, a Scottish newspaper whose own petition to ban handguns had raised 428,279 signatures within five weeks of the massacre.

In response to this public debate, the then-current Conservative government introduced a ban on all cartridge ammunition handguns with the exception of .22 calibre single-shot weapons in England, Scotland and Wales. Following the 1997 General Election, the Labour government of Tony Blair introduced the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997, banning the remaining .22 cartridge handguns in England, Scotland and Wales, and leaving only muzzle-loading and historic handguns legal, as well as certain sporting handguns (e.g. "Long-Arms") that fall outside the Home Office Definition of a "handgun" due to their dimensions.

 

[DairyQueen]

That's a good piece - well the first half, the 2nd wanders off a bit. And i'm always suspicious of the class as identity stuff - but as a start point for recognising where we actually are - and it's not 1933) then it's welcome. This is the stuff that needs to be built on that will drive a wedge between those people she talks about and those who actually run UKIP and would benefit from it's growing influence - and without focusing or obsessing on UKIP or centering your political activity and efforts around them.

This stuff will never be built on. We get is this shite from right-wing social democrats when their parties take a beating; no tangible policy, just the "remember the good old days" mantra. The idea that class politics will become relevant with the demise of UKIP is a joke, the Guardian should stop pretending it is a left-wing paper, it inevitably does more damage to the cause. The more Labour and other social democrats start using the rhetoric of the left, the worse it will be for the parties of the poor. They think communists ruin the reputation of left-wing politics, that is not true. Left-wing politics is undermined by the parade of self-centred cunts that use the rhetoric in order to be elected as neoliberals.

 

[steeplejack]

Sked: Nigel Farage "too dim" to debate political ideas: elite complacency has caused EU crisis

 

[The39thStep]

last years but I missed this.
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/taking-on-the-fruitcakes-how-can-we-stop-ukip/ or how can we come up with something that means that we dont take them on but look pure.

Good to see the 'what we need is a UKIP of the left' ( I fondly remember the 'what we need is a BNP of the left' campaign) getting some attention.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Sked: Nigel Farage "too dim" to debate political ideas: elite complacency has caused EU crisis

Seems a reasonable article.

Farage's inability to handle facts seems rather evident to me.

 

[butchersapron]

Nothing like a grudge eh sked? Now who was it brought the BNP into UKIP mark one? Could you remind us alan?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not at all, if you look at the figures. And it's only fatuous if you don't understand the point of the comparison, which was intended to counter an idea I think is horribly flawed and misguided - namely that the rise of right-nationalists in the UK and elsewhere might be something to be cheered.

I've looked at the figures, and I still find your comparison fatuous. Have you looked at the voting stats for the Nazis you've compared UKIP to? The demographic spread is different, the geographic spread is only partially similar, and the motivation - well, if you want to get into that, we can, but you'll be handed your arse on a platter.

As for cheering, you've now converted a narrow premise that a resurgent right might do SOME good to mainstream politics, or (preferably, in my opinion) destroy mainstream politics, to "cheering the rise of ... nationalists". Well done.

 

[frogwoman]

The Nazis were nothing like ukip ffs.

Where are the paramilitary forces behind ukip? Where is the obsession with violence and the palingenetic mythology? Where is the irredentism?

 

[SpineyNorman]

The Nazis were nothing like ukip ffs.

Where are the paramilitary forces behind ukip? Where is the obsession with violence and the palingenetic mythology? Where is the irredentism?

And where's the antisemitism? I don't see any evidence that there's any more of it in UKIP than the Tory party. Or the Green Party for that matter.

 

[frogwoman]

And where's the antisemitism? I don't see any evidence that there's any more of it in UKIP than the Tory party. Or the Green Party for that matter.

There's certainly no racial antisemitism and for example attempts to prove that people are biologically inferior - Farage also doesn't speak about other races as being a 'bacillus' and so on.

The Nazis and even the majority of far right parties in Europe are way beyond anything ukip have done. Can you compare them to something like Golden Dawn for example? Of course not

 

[frogwoman]

: Promotion of Greek-Macedonian dictionary - long v…:

Have UKIP done anything like this whatsoever?

 

[alfajobrob]

I always refer to myself as an immigrant here. Ex-pat has all sorts of dodgy connotations to me.

Racist fuck.

 

[alfajobrob]

You might get mistaken for a cockney.

Regionalist twat.

 

[alfajobrob]

Might be joking.

 

[butchersapron]

Might be joking.

This is exactly why UKIP are winning the argument. I think. Probably.

 

[Favelado]

¡ups! deleted post - wrong thread.

 

[brogdale]

Wow.

Cameron just shat himself.

The poll, by ComRes suggests that 86 per cent of people who voted for Nigel Farage’s party will do so again next year.

 

[brogdale]

Actual poll findings are slightly less impressive...

The survey found that 37 per cent of Ukip voters said that they were “certain” to support the party at the general election. Another 49 per cent said that they were “likely” to do so, while 14 per cent said that they would probably back another party.

But that 14% 'leakage' is very low compared to some expectations from commentators...the UKIP 'stickability' appears, if anything, to be rising. That will worry CCHQ.

 

[treelover]

EU elections: Farage shakes it all about
May 27, 2014

Dave Kellaway examines the results of the European Union elections and the impact of the far right UKIP on the traditional parties
One of the electronic gizmos on the BBC election coverage was particularly impressive. It showed voting support by the different light intensity of the party colour on a big map of Britain. Change from the last Euro elections could also be demonstrated. That was when the impact of the UKIP breakthrough really came home to you. Apart from the some urban areas and Labour strongholds like London, Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle the purple tide was rising everywhere. At the same time you could enjoy the fading of the Lib Dem light, which incidentally helped the Greens win another seat in the South West, one of the few bright spots of the evening.

http://leftunity.org/eu-elections-farage-shakes-it-all-about/

I've responded to Dave Kellaway's article on the Left Unity website at http://leftunity.org/eu-elections-farage-shakes-it-all-about/ (awaiting moderation) as follows:

Dave, Like Tom Walker in a separate article on the LU website, you consi...derably exaggerate the threat of UKIP in working class areas, particularly in cities, where UKIP got virtually got no council seats anywhere in the country, as pointed out in Tom Clark’s blog: http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/local-election-results-2014-aav.html. The blog entry also explains the particularly difficult local circumstances that have caused a lot of racism in Rotherham. UKIP came close in Middleton, where Lee Rigby came from, but their failure to win that seat is more remarkable than UKIP’s minor successes in the odd fairly large town.

https://www.facebook.com/socialiststephen?hc_location=stream

New article from L/Unity member on UKIP with a robust response from another member.

note, no value judgement on either contribution.