UCU - Pensions and Pay Disputes

[Benjamin F]

Aye, how can they call more strikes when they haven't had the data back on how (un)successful that last few weeks' actions were. It looks contemptuous. I'll be the only c*** still out at this rate, Never remind turning up for pickets....

Marking boycott is the only time we have real power. Management don't give a hoot if students education is affected. But if students can't graduate, graduate recruitment is impacted. Needs a clever strategy to manage effectively given the differences in assessment timetables within and between institutions. I have, however, little doubt that the Union leadership is incapable of such creative, tactical thinking.

 

[Pickman's model]

it would be better if ucu co-ordinated at all with unison. that would help both unions in their disputes.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Woof, sounds grim, and certainly diminishing returns

 

[Lord Camomile]

it would be better if ucu co-ordinated at all with unison. that would help both unions in their disputes.

I still don't understand the history and other factors at play on this, but aye, would certainly help, you think.

But, then, I honestly don't have a whole lot of faith in UNISON at a national level.

 

[braindancer]

FFS - I'm essentially the sole earner, we don't have any savings and we're always overdrawn by the end of the month. Losing another week's wages will REALLY fuck us over.

My role isn't student-facing - I'm in a research role at UCL, so my striking doesn't cause any pain to the University - I basically just massively inconvenience myself and to a lesser extent other members of my team.

Will have to think hard about this...

 

[Pickman's model]

I still don't understand the history and other factors at play on this, but aye, would certainly help, you think.

But, then, I honestly don't have a whole lot of faith in UNISON at a national level.

tbh i don't think we'd be in quite the shit we are if the unison (or ucu) leadership had any notion of how to lead. if there was any way to join a fighting union like the rmt i'd be off out of unison like a shot.

 

[hitmouse]

tbh i don't think we'd be in quite the shit we are if the unison (or ucu) leadership had any notion of how to lead. if there was any way to join a fighting union like the rmt i'd be off out of unison like a shot.

I mean, what I've heard from people on the Unison negotiating team is that they want to get the balloting timetable properly synched up with UCU (and indeed Unite, EIS, GMB etc) for the 2022 pay claims. But there's still no guarantee of that, and "we want to try and get the 2022 negotiations in a better place" is not much comfort when it comes to the 2021 round.
If you're in London, is IWGB an option at all?

 

[Lord Camomile]

I mean, what I've heard from people on the Unison negotiating team is that they want to get the balloting timetable properly synched up with UCU (and indeed Unite, EIS, GMB etc) for the 2022 pay claims. But there's still no guarantee of that, and "we want to try and get the 2022 negotiations in a better place" is not much comfort when it comes to the 2021 round.

Would be encouraging if it works out, but the impression I get is that every year they seem to be playing catch-up and don't get plans in gear soon enough before the next round of negotiating starts.

 

[Pickman's model]

I mean, what I've heard from people on the Unison negotiating team is that they want to get the balloting timetable properly synched up with UCU (and indeed Unite, EIS, GMB etc) for the 2022 pay claims. But there's still no guarantee of that, and "we want to try and get the 2022 negotiations in a better place" is not much comfort when it comes to the 2021 round.
If you're in London, is IWGB an option at all?

i've only heard of them organising around cleaners and security guards, generally where they've been outsourced

 

[hitmouse]

i've only heard of them organising around cleaners and security guards, generally where they've been outsourced

You're probably right there. Don't suppose you fancy a sudden change of career?

 

[Pickman's model]

You're probably right there. Don't suppose you fancy a sudden change of career?

gentleman of leisure sounds good to me.

 

[Pickman's model]

I mean, what I've heard from people on the Unison negotiating team is that they want to get the balloting timetable properly synched up with UCU (and indeed Unite, EIS, GMB etc) for the 2022 pay claims. But there's still no guarantee of that, and "we want to try and get the 2022 negotiations in a better place" is not much comfort when it comes to the 2021 round.
If you're in London, is IWGB an option at all?

sadly there's no way i can really describe my job as transport related, except in the movement of information

 

[aqua]

FFS - I'm essentially the sole earner, we don't have any savings and we're always overdrawn by the end of the month. Losing another week's wages will REALLY fuck us over.

My role isn't student-facing - I'm in a research role at UCL, so my striking doesn't cause any pain to the University - I basically just massively inconvenience myself and to a lesser extent other members of my team.

Will have to think hard about this...

This is literally me. I'm not student facing. I'm the sole income in my house. Another week will destroy my household finances. I've been able to cope so far but for another 5 days? I'm going to have to seriously think about this.

 

[BoatieBird]

Me too.
Not student facing, the only impact will be on me and my poor overworked colleagues

 

[strung out]

Sending lots of love and solidarity to all of you. Times like this I realise how lucky I am to work for a university that uses LGPS rather than USS.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

 

[nino_savatte]

At last week's rally, I suggested that we storm and occupy Woburn House. I didn't get any takers.

 

[hitmouse]

Sending lots of love and solidarity to all of you. Times like this I realise how lucky I am to work for a university that uses LGPS rather than USS.

I mean, isn't the difference there that LGPS got rinsed back in 2011, and they're just now fucking over USS to LGPS levels?
Also I think for the next round they're not making any distinction between the pension days and four fights days, so probably won't make any difference in terms of number of strike days?

Am curious what people think the way forward should be - I've heard people suggest marking boycotts would be a good way to cause an impact without being as financially damaging as strike action, except for at the places that are doing big deductions for ASOS anyway?

 

[strung out]

I mean, isn't the difference there that LGPS got rinsed back in 2011, and they're just now fucking over USS to LGPS levels?

I wasn't in LGPS back in 2011, but having been a member of both LGPS and USS since 2014, I was under the impression that LGPS is far better than USS at the moment.

For my salary level, I pay 5.8% of my salary for 1/49 into my pension with LGPS. USS is currently 9.8% for 1/75 and set to get worse.

Death in service and lump sums etc. might make them slightly more even (can't remember all the details of what's included), but they seem miles away from each other.

 

[hitmouse]

I wasn't in LGPS back in 2011, but having been a member of both LGPS and USS since 2014, I was under the impression that LGPS is far better than USS at the moment.

For my salary level, I pay 5.8% of my salary for 1/49 into my pension with LGPS. USS is currently 9.8% for 1/75 and set to get worse.

Death in service and lump sums etc. might make them slightly more even (can't remember all the details of what's included), but they seem miles away from each other.

I don't know what numbers mean! I was kind of going off a vague sense that the USS universities were the posh ones, trying to pin down what I thought the specific differences were I thought maybe USS was still final salary, but turns out that got fucked back in 2011 as well. Beyond vague "I reckons", I swear I've had a conversation with an experienced HE unionist who told me that USS was better at the moment, but after this next round of fuckery goes through it might end up being worse than LGPS, but can't remember any specifics there. In conclusion, I should probably not become a professional pensions adviser.

 

[hitmouse]

Would be interested to know more about this - does anyone know if there are other cases of UCU reps/officers being targeted at the moment? Although this sounds like this is FE so maybe a bit different:

 

[strung out]

I don't know what numbers mean! I was kind of going off a vague sense that the USS universities were the posh ones, trying to pin down what I thought the specific differences were I thought maybe USS was still final salary, but turns out that got fucked back in 2011 as well. Beyond vague "I reckons", I swear I've had a conversation with an experienced HE unionist who told me that USS was better at the moment, but after this next round of fuckery goes through it might end up being worse than LGPS, but can't remember any specifics there. In conclusion, I should probably not become a professional pensions adviser.

Yeah, this person was mistaken. LGPS is definitely superior to USS, and will be even more so if these USS changes go through.

Essentially, LGPS members have less taken from their salary (that's the percentage figure I quoted), but get more in their pension (that's the fractional figure I quoted).

 

[hitmouse]

Crossposting this here cos uni stuff:

 

[hitmouse]

New ballots starting cos the current mandate expires soon:

Ballots for industrial action open today at universities across the UK

UCU today began balloting staff to take further industrial action over cuts to pensions and deteriorating pay and conditions.

www.ucu.org.uk

Unless the average UCU member is far more enthusiastic than the posters here, and I suspect that's probably not the case, I imagine the turnout for this one probably won't be that great. Hopefully they'll at least get a decent mandate for ASOS?

 

[hitmouse]

Results of the Four Fights reballot are out, 36 branches got past the threshold for strike action this time, and 38 for ASOS:

Staff at 36 UK universities back further strike action in ballot over pay and working conditions

Staff at thirty-six UK universities have voted in favour of strike action in a dispute over pay and working conditions which could see higher education hit by further disruption this academic year.

www.ucu.org.uk

I dunno what the way forward is from here, it feels to me like marking boycotts and stuff might be an effective way to cause disruption without making members lose even more money, except for at those places that are doing 100% deductions for ASOS, but dunno how much that would achieve if it's limited to 38 universities anyway?
Meanwhile, the 2022 pay claim negotiations are now starting, or rather not starting, since UCEA's response to the joint pay claim so far seems to be "get fukd lol":

Delays to university pay talks are 'unacceptable' say unions | Article, News | News | UNISON National

The UCEA's decision not to present a pay offer 'sends a message that employers don't understand the urgency of the issue'

www.unison.org.uk

 

[Lord Camomile]

Results of the Four Fights reballot are out, 36 branches got past the threshold for strike action this time, and 38 for ASOS:

Staff at 36 UK universities back further strike action in ballot over pay and working conditions

Staff at thirty-six UK universities have voted in favour of strike action in a dispute over pay and working conditions which could see higher education hit by further disruption this academic year.

www.ucu.org.uk

I dunno what the way forward is from here, it feels to me like marking boycotts and stuff might be an effective way to cause disruption without making members lose even more money, except for at those places that are doing 100% deductions for ASOS, but dunno how much that would achieve if it's limited to 38 universities anyway?

Aye, saw people talking about some of the results as they came in on social media last night. Obviously don't have the full picture, but from the outside it's both impressive but also seems like the strain is really starting to tell.

Particularly if there's going to be more action around this year's claim. Speaking of...

Meanwhile, the 2022 pay claim negotiations are now starting, or rather not starting, since UCEA's response to the joint pay claim so far seems to be "get fukd lol":

Delays to university pay talks are 'unacceptable' say unions | Article, News | News | UNISON National

The UCEA's decision not to present a pay offer 'sends a message that employers don't understand the urgency of the issue'

www.unison.org.uk

Yuuuuuuuuuup. Understandably, rather pissed a lot of people off.

I actually printed off this year's claim and the UCEA 'response' earlier, in some daft belief that I'm going to read it and then summarise for members who had arguably their first taste of union activism on the picket lines over the past month or so.

That said, I'm a little worried that rather than getting even more pissed off, some members will go the other direction and take it as "well, what's the point in strike action if they just respond with nothing?"

 

[Lord Camomile]

This has been throwing me a bit and would like to get to the bottom of it:

The UCEA was presented with the unions’ fully evidenced pay claim at the end of February, and had over a month to consider it and prepare an offer.

Whereas on their website, the UCEA say:

Joint trade unions' claim​

This was sent to UCEA at the end of March 2022

I saw in some union material they said something like "the UCEA has had the headline claims for a month", so had assumed the claims were sent earlier and then the full detail followed at the end of March, but that quote from the UNISON page would suggest it all came at the end of February

 

[hitmouse]

This has been throwing me a bit and would like to get to the bottom of it:


Whereas on their website, the UCEA say:


I saw in some union material they said something like "the UCEA has had the headline claims for a month", so had assumed the claims were sent earlier and then the full detail followed at the end of March, but that quote from the UNISON page would suggest it all came at the end of February

Yeah, I think your first assumption seems like the only way of making sense of it? Although suppose I can't fully rule out UCEA lying/someone absent-mindedly writing the wrong month somewhere?

That said, I'm a little worried that rather than getting even more pissed off, some members will go the other direction and take it as "well, what's the point in strike action if they just respond with nothing?"

Yeah, it is a worry - it's a national dispute but, if we can't confidently rely on winning a national ballot, we're left fighting it as a collection of local disputes, and obviously if we can get enough branches over the line that has a real impact, but if not then you just get a handful of the most militant and best-organised branches going out to fight a national dispute on their own. With the cost of living crisis really starting to bite, and UCEA not seeming very willing to defuse the situation by making a generous offer that'll buy everyone off, I can see more Unison branches getting across the line this time but the worry I've heard, and that it sounds plausible, is that we might end up with Unison members/non-academic staff entering into the fight just as the number of UCU branches that can get over the threshold starts to fall because this last round burnt everyone out?

 

[Lord Camomile]

Yeah, I think your first assumption seems like the only way of making sense of it? Although suppose I can't fully rule out UCEA lying/someone absent-mindedly writing the wrong month somewhere?

Yeah, it is a worry - it's a national dispute but, if we can't confidently rely on winning a national ballot, we're left fighting it as a collection of local disputes, and obviously if we can get enough branches over the line that has a real impact, but if not then you just get a handful of the most militant and best-organised branches going out to fight a national dispute on their own. With the cost of living crisis really starting to bite, and UCEA not seeming very willing to defuse the situation by making a generous offer that'll buy everyone off, I can see more Unison branches getting across the line this time but the worry I've heard, and that it sounds plausible, is that we might end up with Unison members/non-academic staff entering into the fight just as the number of UCU branches that can get over the threshold starts to fall because this last round burnt everyone out?

Aye, likewise, sadly. I mean, UNISON only had 9 branches striking in the first place!

Was pondering the other day, whether it'd make sense to regroup and plan something big, properly co-ordinated between all five unions, for the start of the next academic year. I get the sense that a general feeling is "keep up the pressure/momentum while you can", but aside from member burnout we're about to hit the time of year when action will be largely ineffectual (maybe something like admissions might have an impact?).

 

[Lord Camomile]

It's also taken me far too long to realise that one of the reasons that UCU seem more together and on top of all this than UNISON is because they're a dedicated HE union, whereas UNISON covers loads of different sectors and, frankly, this simply doesn't seem like a huge priority/focus for them.

Certainly not in the same way as UCU, at least.