Turkey, ISIS, Kurds and Syria

[butchersapron]

I think this v brief outline sums it up quite nicely - and do pay attention to just what is being referred to as ethnic cleansing:

Northern Syria: Massive ethnic cleansing, humanitarian catastrophe, foreign intervention and betrayal

 

[ManchesterBeth]

also



View attachment 125750

here we go again with fsa as this uniform political entity drivel — which rebel groups exactly?

seems like they were more anti-erdoğan than a supporter of the syrian revolution to begin with. fine. but you never saw these people saying anything when the secular democratic tendancies in fsa forces were gutted and eroded did you? isis isis and isis, (who is winning? assad, who was right all along? the syrian revolutionaries who argued that without the fall of the regime jihadism could not be effectively combated, and the western left ate the orientalist crap all up, look at my heroic public school complex, I'll use out of context analogies and fly to syria because i have to be the saviour of the syrians... And then they wonder why muslims aren't receptive...

This is why i hate twitter.

 

[butchersapron]

This makes the ness connections.

Solidarity with Afrin, al-Ghouta, Idlib Against All Military Attacks

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

Fisk reports from inside Afrin:
Inside Afrin, the true victims of Turkey's invasion of northern Syria are revealed - refugees, babies, women and children

 

[miss direct]

It’s good to see a report from inside. And to think I could get arrested for sharing that news story (I live in turkey and the nationalistic propganda around the Afrin operation is making me sick to my stomach).

 

[butchersapron]

Fisk - the one cheering on the much worse deathly destruction starvation sieges and plain old refugee-making by the regime and its allies in Idlib, in Aleppo, in East Ghouta and numerous other places. That fisk? The two faced (both red from drinking in the best hotels at various regimes expense) hack-pimp cunt.

 

[teqniq]

Yes indeed. The preceding article was full of fawning drivel concerning some Syrian general and now we have this served up for afters.

 

[teqniq]

From yesterday evening.

 

[Mordi]

From yesterday evening.

I'm not alone at getting pissed at idiots filming (let alone livestreaming) on demos/actions. How much fucking worse must it be to have the same kind of stupidity in uniform on the side of the road merrily filming your military operations to be broadcast to everyone.

 

[teqniq]

What? Where does it say anywhere that the person who shot the video is in uniform? In any event here you are somewhat missing the point. Here you have a Nato member being escorted through Idlib province by HTS an organisation who have ties with al-Qaeda.

E2a A lot more info about this on this thread



E2a again Despite Lister's claim of no HTS escort I fail to see how they could move through Idlib province without the assistance/acquiescence of someone be it HTS or someone else.

 

[teqniq]

Further update: worth reading other posts in thread

 

[teqniq]

 

[teqniq]

 

[teqniq]

E2a again Despite Lister's claim of no HTS escort I fail to see how they could move through Idlib province without the assistance/acquiescence of someone be it HTS or someone else.

It's both Idlib and Alleppo province sorry



Also from the same thread, contradicting Lister's claim

 

[teqniq]

Macron issues stark warning to Turkey as incursion against Kurds in Syria deepens

 

[coley]

Macron issues stark warning to Turkey as incursion against Kurds in Syria deepens

Fair enough, but 'Macron'? as opposed the a collective EU response?
NATO and the EU should be giving Turkey the big heave ho, Erdogan repeatedly gave assistance to ISiS....oh fuck it, Erdogans Turkey is a massive Trojan horse in respect of NATOs eastern flank.

 

[kebabking]

Fair enough, but 'Macron'? as opposed the a collective EU response?
NATO and the EU should be giving Turkey the big heave ho, Erdogan repeatedly gave assistance to ISiS....oh fuck it, Erdogans Turkey is a massive Trojan horse in respect of NATOs eastern flank.

Hugely emotionally satisfying, and richly deserved - but what course do you think Turkey will follow when they receive this very public slap in the face?

a) see the error of their ways, recant, thoroughly overhaul their social and political structures and eventually become Sweden with better weather?

b) storm off in a gigantic huff with an enormous grudge, and use their significant political, economic and military strength to not only plough their own furrow without the fig leaf of pretending to be a part of the western club, but to act (even more) against it out of spite?

If you think the Kurds are in trouble now, wait till you see US and UK air cover disappear as ability to fly through Turkish airspace goes and the Turkish Army goes into full 'fuck you' mode...

 

[butchersapron]

If you think the Kurds are in trouble now, wait till you see US and UK air cover disappear as ability to fly through Turkish airspace goes and the Turkish Army goes into full 'fuck you' mode...

Or the desire/need to do so - as is now starting to happen. They're being hung out to dry again - and not because of imperialism but because of the top-down-military led choices made - internally and externally - by the PYD/PKK/YPG. Internally, to not fight with the FSA beyond limited kobani stuff (and vice versa) externally leave yourself relying on US interests to prop you up. I suspect, externally there were few other choices in the immediate post kobani months but after that i'm not so sure.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

i really don't know how the future looks for turkish kurds anymore.


i don't understand why the conservative kurds i meet in the mosques and family friends haven't/aren't more concerned about the akp's courting of turkish ultranationalists. it's dispiriting. I'm not expecting over night political transformations or anything.

 

[butchersapron]

I know this deserves going on the main syria thread but as he was mentioned above...fisk is today claiming - against Hezbollah, the Iranians, the Russians and the regime they now constitute - that there is no Hezbollah or Iranians in Syria - whilst regurgitating the most odious of propaganda that was birthed in the late spring of 2011 when the regime decided to sectarianise the revolution:

I have to say, however, that after a 2,000-mile tour over much of Syria, I have – for the first time in recent months – seen neither a single Hezbollah member or Iranian revolutionary guard. And since Western leaders believe Syria is swamped with Iranians, this is interesting.

 

[kebabking]

i really don't know how the future looks for turkish kurds anymore...

Bleak.

i fear the truth is that had the military and political circumstances in Syria and Iraq produced a much more effective and coherant Kurdish identity and territorial Kurdistan, Turkeys response with have been heavier and quicker. that the greater the success in carving out Kurdistan in Iraq and Syria, the greater the backlash from Turkey, both against Turkish Kurds and against Kurdistan.

hyperbolic perhaps, but from a standpoint of working in a NATO headquarters, Turkey looks to me like Germany in the mid/late 1930's - ridding itself of the last, ragged vestages of 'good behaviour' and going full on strongman and ethno-centric. Turkey is the risen military and economic power in the ME, and it will make and disavow whatever alliances it feels like in order to take its place in the world.

something tactical with Iran, perhaps something more strategic with Russia - with Syria being on the menu rather than at the table.

if i was a Turkish Kurd, i'd be looking hard at my options. with what i fear is coming, going to Iraq with your lifes possessions in a 4X4 might be one of the better options for those classed as the enemy within.

 

[coley]

Hugely emotionally satisfying, and richly deserved - but what course do you think Turkey will follow when they receive this very public slap in the face?

a) see the error of their ways, recant, thoroughly overhaul their social and political structures and eventually become Sweden with better weather?

b) storm off in a gigantic huff with an enormous grudge, and use their significant political, economic and military strength to not only plough their own furrow without the fig leaf of pretending to be a part of the western club, but to act (even more) against it out of spite?

If you think the Kurds are in trouble now, wait till you see US and UK air cover disappear as ability to fly through Turkish airspace goes and the Turkish Army goes into full 'fuck you' mode...

B, obviously, but at least it will remove any semblance of Turkey being a trustworthy member of NATO.

 

[coley]

Bleak.

i fear the truth is that had the military and political circumstances in Syria and Iraq produced a much more effective and coherant Kurdish identity and territorial Kurdistan, Turkeys response with have been heavier and quicker. that the greater the success in carving out Kurdistan in Iraq and Syria, the greater the backlash from Turkey, both against Turkish Kurds and against Kurdistan.

hyperbolic perhaps, but from a standpoint of working in a NATO headquarters, Turkey looks to me like Germany in the mid/late 1930's - ridding itself of the last, ragged vestages of 'good behaviour' and going full on strongman and ethno-centric. Turkey is the risen military and economic power in the ME, and it will make and disavow whatever alliances it feels like in order to take its place in the world.

something tactical with Iran, perhaps something more strategic with Russia - with Syria being on the menu rather than at the table.

if i was a Turkish Kurd, i'd be looking hard at my options. with what i fear is coming, going to Iraq with your lifes possessions in a 4X4 might be one of the better options for those classed as the enemy within.

Thou and I, perhaps? But given the grief that various factions have given the US and us, mebbes Erdogan has bitten off more than he can chew?
It's clearly going to be a war atween the Sunnis and Shiates, time for the West to pack up and fuck off, let Putin sort it out, I.E., let the 'interventionist hate' drift in his direction.

 

[dylanredefined]

I'm not alone at getting pissed at idiots filming (let alone livestreaming) on demos/actions. How much fucking worse must it be to have the same kind of stupidity in uniform on the side of the road merrily filming your military operations to be broadcast to everyone.

Used to be a combat indication ,Someone filming you something bad is about to happen.Now everyone has a camera. The British forces do try and stop our own doing dumb shut with various results.

 

[coley]

Used to be a combat indication ,Someone filming you something bad is about to happen.Now everyone has a camera. The British forces do try and stop our own doing dumb shut with various results.

Fuck me sideways, once a pon a time, if you were getting shot at, or bombed, it meant you would go into 'contact mode' to protect you and your mates and civilians from 'incoming'
Now it seems, is me camera ready? do I have my 'war face' on? are my fellow combatants, videoing me in in the best possible light, both politically and from a media rewarding financial source?
Nivver mind, they can use the steel from the scrapped warships to build the white elephant known as HS 2.

 

[teqniq]

Syrian Kurds say Russia gave Turkey the green light to bomb Efrin after Coalition strikes in Deir Ezzor

 

[not-bono-ever]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-to-kill-scores-of-russian-fighters-in-Syria

not sure what to say on this really, except it is hardly going to help

 

[Libertad]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-to-kill-scores-of-russian-fighters-in-Syria

not sure what to say on this really, except it is hardly going to help

404

 

[not-bono-ever]

Exclusive: U.S. Strikes Killed Scores of Russian Fighters in Syria, Sources Say

not sure what happened there- try this - up to 200 mercs may have been killed last week, many Russians amongst them. many Wounded repatriated back to Russian military hospitals for treatment

 

[miss direct]

if i was a Turkish Kurd, i'd be looking hard at my options. with what i fear is coming, going to Iraq with your lifes possessions in a 4X4 might be one of the better options for those classed as the enemy within.

My partner is a Turkish Kurd (Kurdish Turk?) and we live in Turkey. Could you please elaborate?

We've already agreed that if we are to have a son (unlikely but you never know), he will only get British citizenship so as to avoid compulsary military service.