Fuck's sake you're in deep. It's like you're reading a script, I could virtually write your posts for you. It's really fucking boring now. Do we have to do pages of this, or can you take it to a thread that isn't about discussing transphobic violence?
Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%
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Fuck's sake you're in deep. It's like you're reading a script, I could virtually write your posts for you. It's really fucking boring now. Do we have to do pages of this, or can you take it to a thread that isn't about discussing transphobic violence?
I wrote out a whole post and then deleted it because it's not about me and I don't want to sidetrack the thread, but honestly I can think of loads of examples of times just from today where how I acted or was treated was dictated by my perceived sex. Biological sex? Not so much.
And I've lost count of how many people have had their bodies all over mine doing jiu jitsu, seen me getting changed countless times before and after, and still had no idea I'm trans until I told them. Medical professionals have seen me shirtless and not recognised my mastectomy scars for what they are. And I'm pretty sure most women would be uncomfortable sharing single sex spaces like changing rooms with me and giving it BuT mY bIoLoGiCaL sEx would make fuck-all difference to most of them.
And I've lost count of how many people have had their bodies all over mine doing jiu jitsu, seen me getting changed countless times before and after, and still had no idea I'm trans until I told them. Medical professionals have seen me shirtless and not recognised my mastectomy scars for what they are. And I'm pretty sure most women would be uncomfortable sharing single sex spaces like changing rooms with me and giving it BuT mY bIoLoGiCaL sEx would make fuck-all difference to most of them.
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
Hey there, you've been reminded kindly several times what this thread is about. It's about recorded hate crimes towards trans people being on the rise. And it's a trend that continues in recent figures, even though reported homophobic crimes have taken a slight 1% dip.
Perhaps the increase in reports is because of media wars stoked by transphobic authors, whose tropes people like you repeat as though your having an original thought.
Or it might be because hate crimes are still new to being measured, there's increased reporting, police awareness and a higher conviction rate for transphobic hate crimes. So I'm interested in the interplay of those factors. How much weight do we give to each?
What I'm not interested in is your muddled view of trans people. Your opinion isn't just irrelevant, it's really poorly informed, and repeats many old tropes that I don't have the energy to dismantle, and neither will I on a thread like this. But I can with some certainty predict two things - you read the wrong media, and you don't actually have any trans friends.
There's a continuum of hate crime. At one end, you've got trans teenagers getting stabbed to death in a park, or set alight at their own birthday party, or kicked to death down an alleyway.
At the other end I'm afraid to tell you, is you.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Trans people have often been living 'stealth' going back 50 years, which is why there were outed by the press, trans people were subject to court cases or violence because a partner or spouse 'found out'... Trans models: From decades of rejection to centre stage
Medical and surgical outcomes have been exceptionally good and improving for years, especially for younger transitioners, whilst of course not without risks like any major surgeries (and I genuinely feel sorry for those detransitioners who regret for whatever reason including poor surgical outcome - but the majority dissapear back into their lives happily post transition/surgery.)
The only thing that is harming medical and surgical outcomes, and successful transitions, is the constant backlash and bigotry in society, and lack of access to effective public healthcare and attacks on it (only the richest will afford going to the US or Thailand).
Its like, despite, all the evidence and progress to the contrary, some people are now so deep down the rabbit hole that any arguments from years ago are being desperately rehashed. So, it comes back to the question of whether it is 'fear' ultimately driving this and clinching to some 'biological essentialism'?
Medical and surgical outcomes have been exceptionally good and improving for years, especially for younger transitioners, whilst of course not without risks like any major surgeries (and I genuinely feel sorry for those detransitioners who regret for whatever reason including poor surgical outcome - but the majority dissapear back into their lives happily post transition/surgery.)
The only thing that is harming medical and surgical outcomes, and successful transitions, is the constant backlash and bigotry in society, and lack of access to effective public healthcare and attacks on it (only the richest will afford going to the US or Thailand).
Its like, despite, all the evidence and progress to the contrary, some people are now so deep down the rabbit hole that any arguments from years ago are being desperately rehashed. So, it comes back to the question of whether it is 'fear' ultimately driving this and clinching to some 'biological essentialism'?
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Phrases like 'denying the reality of their bodies' and 'themselves' doesnt apply to any trans person I've ever met - who are entirely rational and pragmatic about their state of being before during and after. This is just 'woo' isn't it?! Same as asserting things like Cass and 'surgical outcomes' but when having been repeatedly presented with evidence and studies (I mean this stuff has been discussed to death for years here - biological, medical, social, political), or challenged over what some of these things you express really mean, we just get vagueties, and go around again a few months later.
And doing this on a thread about the rising problem of transphobia and trans hate crimes? Its been bad enough with the old boys debating club.
I just can't. I find it really disappointing seeing some of this stuff coming from you, Eids.
And doing this on a thread about the rising problem of transphobia and trans hate crimes? Its been bad enough with the old boys debating club.
I just can't. I find it really disappointing seeing some of this stuff coming from you, Eids.
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Why are you posting about ~biological reality~ in a thread about anti-trans hate crimes? Are you implying trans people deserve to be stabbed or beaten up or something? You think the little bastards who knifed Brianna Ghey were doing it because of science?
Actually, I can't be arsed with this. If I wanted to see TERFshit I'd go on Mumsnet. The people killing and beating up trans people aren't doing it because they're passionate about science or because they want to protect women, they think trans people are disgusting sexual deviants. And I'm willing to bet you do too, Edie, because I don't know why else you'd be so frightened of having to share a changing room with a trans woman. Live and let live, my fucking arse. You might be polite and reasonable about it but IMO it's pretty ignorant to hijack a thread about hate crimes to go 'BUT BIOLOGEEEEE'. Although I agree about cubicles, but then that's because I'm overweight and I don't want a bunch of women laughing and staring at me.
Cass was stacked from the start. Badenoch admitted it. Cass was not done in good faith.
Actually, I can't be arsed with this. If I wanted to see TERFshit I'd go on Mumsnet. The people killing and beating up trans people aren't doing it because they're passionate about science or because they want to protect women, they think trans people are disgusting sexual deviants. And I'm willing to bet you do too, Edie, because I don't know why else you'd be so frightened of having to share a changing room with a trans woman. Live and let live, my fucking arse. You might be polite and reasonable about it but IMO it's pretty ignorant to hijack a thread about hate crimes to go 'BUT BIOLOGEEEEE'. Although I agree about cubicles, but then that's because I'm overweight and I don't want a bunch of women laughing and staring at me.
Cass was stacked from the start. Badenoch admitted it. Cass was not done in good faith.
LakieLady
Well-Known Member
Mumsnet's that way ------>
LakieLady
Well-Known Member
A climate where expression of bigotry towards trans people goes unchallenged helps the transphobic to feel that hate crimes against trans people are somehow different from other hate crimes and more legitimate.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
thanks for confirming you are a clinically illiterate, bigoted liar
the Objective Material Reality here is exactly that you are a liar,
you are legally incorrect,
you are morally incorrect ,
YOU are a faciliator of sexual assault and clearly view tthe women you dislike as acceptable collateral damage when you throw them into substandard / none -existant 'third spaces ' or insist that they are men.
and by the way , you can and will change biological sex with Gender Affirming Hormonal treatment
Gender-affirming hormone therapy induces specific DNA methylation changes in blood - Clinical Epigenetics
Background DNA methylation is an epigenetic mark that is influenced by underlying genetic profile, environment, and ageing. In addition to X-linked DNA methylation, sex-specific methylation patterns are widespread across autosomal chromosomes and can be present from birth or arise over time. In...
clinicalepigeneticsjournal.biomedcentral.com
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
you only person denying reality here is you
once again i will remind you that your views are legally, morally and ethically incorrect , and that your wank-addled p0rnsick fantasies expose vulnerable women and girls to increased risk of sexual exploitation due to your noncesencial insistence they are men
Gender-affirming hormone therapy induces specific DNA methylation changes in blood - Clinical Epigenetics
Background DNA methylation is an epigenetic mark that is influenced by underlying genetic profile, environment, and ageing. In addition to X-linked DNA methylation, sex-specific methylation patterns are widespread across autosomal chromosomes and can be present from birth or arise over time. In...
clinicalepigeneticsjournal.biomedcentral.com
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
it;s called the toupee fallacy
toupee fallacy - Wiktionary, the free dictionary
it works on the basis that becasue the casual observer can only see badly made / applied toupees , that all toupees are badly made and/or applied.
oddly enough many of the things that transphobes claim that ' they can always tell' are in no way unique to transgender women
whether that is facial hair and/or androgenic pattern head hair loss ( common in cis women with PCOS etc )
'excessive' body hair ( again seen in cis women with PCOS and in certain ethnicities ) - 'excessive' here being defined by a white/ east asian centred borderline paedophilic view of acceptable womanhood
facts of height / build / shoe size ( again there;s a racist aspect there as women of african ( direclty or via the carribrean slave trade ) heritage may be taller / broader/ larger of foot than white, western or east asian women
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
Edie is displaying that they are an expert by experience on transgender hate crime, the problem , of course, being that their experience is as a perpetrator
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
transphobes have a script provided for them by the evangentital churches in the USA ( but also suggestions of Russian money filitering in ) ...
they parrot the same lines , the same made up wank-addled pornsick fantasising FoaF stories ...
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krtek a houby
Against all gods
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
the only people 'denying the reality' of bodies are transphobes , 99.7 % of trans people never regret any aspect of their transition , of the 0.3 % there;s aspects historically of trans femme people in particualr who were forced by the Clinicla standards of the time into a very binary identity to get any Affirming care , and then there are the tiny number of actual de transtioners , which is very small as many of the poster children of 'detransition' maintain a cross-sex hormonal milieu ( reportedly Quincy / Keira/ Keiron Bell is back on T and 'Ritchie' never stopped taking estrogen despite his supposed detransition ) then of course there are attention seeking money money than sense types like Sam Kane and Oli London
editor
hiraethified
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
what a surprise Edie has a locked profile , so we can't check up on what other bigotry they have been posting on the site ...
thanks to Editor for the prompt thread ban for Edie
thanks to Editor for the prompt thread ban for Edie
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
you don't need to go to someone's profile to see their posts, the search function will do that
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
< F Urqhart > I of course cannot condone actively seeking out the postings members have made solely for the purpose of reporting them ... < /F Urqhart >
krtek a houby
Against all gods
Though am pissed off with their hot take on trans folk, I will say that Edie has done good especially with posters here in mental jeopardy. Would say that they may well have saved someone's life.
But respect for that aside, the comments above are possibly deserving of a ban from this thread.
How can people have such passionate help at hand and yet such derision for others when suffer from daily grief?
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
i have no authority round here, but i'm not sure that would be a good idea.
i don't remember that, but am not doubting you. but good job the posters in mental jeopardy weren't trans, i suppose...
dunno. some people can do the deserving / undeserving poor, 'look after our own' / fuck everybody else thing.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Agreed. Going looking for things to be upset by is rarely a helpful course of action for any of the parties. Advocating a campaign of it even less so.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
because they are bigots
i've met people like that within the trans community, there's a certain person lauded for ' the lives they have saved' who actively causes suicidial ideation among those they consider to be ' fake' or 'just dressers' ...
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krtek a houby
Against all gods
Fuck knows.
Sometimes some people don't appear to have any idea, and they use their ignorance against trans people.
It's sad and really shouldn't be here, despite certain posters being well loved.
Hoping they can sort out their prejudices. Seriously.
Sometimes some people don't appear to have any idea, and they use their ignorance against trans people.
It's sad and really shouldn't be here, despite certain posters being well loved.
Hoping they can sort out their prejudices. Seriously.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
thanks for confirming you are a clinically illiterate, bigoted liar
the Objective Material Reality here is exactly that you are a liar,
you are legally incorrect,
you are morally incorrect ,
YOU are a faciliator of sexual assault and clearly view tthe women you dislike as acceptable collateral damage when you throw them into substandard / none -existant 'third spaces ' or insist that they are men.
and by the way , you can and will change biological sex with Gender Affirming Hormonal treatment
Gender-affirming hormone therapy induces specific DNA methylation changes in blood - Clinical Epigenetics
Background DNA methylation is an epigenetic mark that is influenced by underlying genetic profile, environment, and ageing. In addition to X-linked DNA methylation, sex-specific methylation patterns are widespread across autosomal chromosomes and can be present from birth or arise over time. In...
I mean, not wanting to go down a blind alley here but methylation patterns are not the same thing as karyotypes. The former vary from one tissue, even one cell to the next. The latter really don't. And it's usually karyotypes that 'biological sex' fundamentalists are getting at.
Most of them do that from a position of relative ignorance though. Whereas Edie is capable of acknowledging that biological sex is not an absolute, and then insisting that it is, often in the space of a single sentence. I think it illustrates nicely how much disconnect there can be between what we know is true with our rational selves and what we want to be true with our emotional selves. Only the gods know why so many people so desperately want trans people to be wrong about who they are or what they experience. Maybe because they think that means being horrible to them is somehow for their own good?
In any case, I'd echo whoever it was who said that this kind of superficially 'nice' diminishing of trans folk's lives is in no way separate from the overt hate crimes, its just not as far along the spectrum. Every bit of 'low-level' anti-trans bigotry enables, encourages and excuses outright abuse and violence. Just as it is with every other kind of bigotry.
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one of the most hardcore TERFs on Mumsnet Trolls Reddit is a teacher. She's made some amazing, compassionate posts about the way working-class women and children who are murder victims are treated by the press, compared to middle-class women and children, but she's also awful about trans people and genuinely believes TERFs are protecting people's daughters. By teaming up with the far right? As fucking if.
Cloo
Banana for scale
I've been thinking today how Labour's (incredibly cowardly) decision to go for 'transphobia lite' - 'Oh, we're just concerned....' - is, as well as obviously a massive betrayal of all trans people, not even going to achieve what I think they hope it will. I reckon they think it gives them some defense against a resurgent populist Right at the next election, because then the Right can't say 'Look, Labour have sided with those weeeeeird trans sex people who want to mutilate children' and Labour can claim to be better because they're only a bit transphobic, and it's just because they 'have concerns'. 
Whereas actually all it does is keep this utterly unnecessary fire burning, which they could extinguish by making trans care the concern, as it should be, for the individuals and professionals involved and not newspaper columnists, and by having great policies for women, all women, so if anyone tries to hit them with 'You don't care about women!' they can counter with all the stuff they have done and say that's much more important and useful than shitting on a tiny section of the population and saying it's helping women.
Labour's attitude just gives a veneer of respectability to transphobia, only the populist Right will be 'better' at transphobia and will at least be consistently cunty about it, which will make them look stronger and more consistent to all the right (aka wrong) people at the next election.
So, you know, gold star for throwing trans people under the bus, Labour.
Whereas actually all it does is keep this utterly unnecessary fire burning, which they could extinguish by making trans care the concern, as it should be, for the individuals and professionals involved and not newspaper columnists, and by having great policies for women, all women, so if anyone tries to hit them with 'You don't care about women!' they can counter with all the stuff they have done and say that's much more important and useful than shitting on a tiny section of the population and saying it's helping women.
Labour's attitude just gives a veneer of respectability to transphobia, only the populist Right will be 'better' at transphobia and will at least be consistently cunty about it, which will make them look stronger and more consistent to all the right (aka wrong) people at the next election.
So, you know, gold star for throwing trans people under the bus, Labour.
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hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Seeing social media claims of some horrible shit happening at Bangface this weekend - original post seems to be:
Original poster has now added "Update: I have now had a meeting with Butlins about the security response, two of the security team involved have already been removed from the event staff, according to Butlins they are investigating and reviewing further".
Original poster has now added "Update: I have now had a meeting with Butlins about the security response, two of the security team involved have already been removed from the event staff, according to Butlins they are investigating and reviewing further".
Cloo
Banana for scale
Yes, I read about this - sounds fucking awful. Of all places I've always, like for decades, experienced clubbing/festival facilities as totally chilled about trans women and femme people using them. This is absolutely barbaric and sounds like it was an executive decision by the security, unless some malicious piece of shit demanded this.
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