Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%

[Epona]

Yup and we’ve seen Black and Brown women being victimised in various sectors as a result too. White feminism is really a big problem…

I don't think feminism is the problem, a lot of us on this thread who are trans or NB or allies, or indeed non-white, are also feminists.
It's bigotry that's the problem - and people on the right fuel that bigotry by setting people against one another.

Part of this bigotry when it comes to transphobia does show up a lot of issues wrt the way femininity is expected and perceived, in terms of different body-types and physical appearances (and which the pinnacle of public criticism seems to be targeted in terms of athletes who are generally more likely to have a higher percentage of muscle compared to body fat), which are now being policed - actually not so much by white feminists, but by the predominantly white male ruling class who have managed to hook in a small proportion of bigoted people claiming to be feminists and making a lot of media noise about what is (at its very basic) essentially a non-issue, I expect those people are fucking laughing their heads off at the divisions they've managed to create - essentially threatening and weakening both the feminist and the LGBTQ+ movements, by setting people against one another.

 

[fucthest8]

It transpired that one of the two members of my group who didn't witness this, but eventually became aware of it, seemed to think it was to be expected, because I didn't look traditionally female, and after all, he had to think of his daughter, didn't he? Mind you, he's always been a bit of a fuckwit.

Really sorry to hear about what happened to you, fucking awful. I'd like to think your righteous anger gave him something to think about. We can hope.

The assumption of harm, iyswim, is what bothers me most though. People who think like this last part of your post surely can't be far from being persuaded to a more extreme position. Which is where fuckers like Rowling come in. I'd also argue it's another side-effect of the atomisation and individualism promoted by neo-liberalism. To be resisted at every turn.

Which is why I still come to Urban. Every time I get a bit depressed about it all I come here and find you lot, and we support each other. And fuck off twats like 8ball. Keep it up people x

 

[emanymton]

Never.

I got chased out of the mens loos at the Embassy club in 1982, but that's another story .

The question is - do masc trans people get challenged/ chased out out of gents loos? Is that even a problem?

Edit to add: or do femme / androgenous cis men have this problem in mens loos either?

No, because women are not seen as a threat to men in the way men are to women, and there is no need for men only spaces in the same way. So there is no leverage for transphobes to try and make an issue out toilets.

 

[LakieLady]

Afaik in this country we have social conventions around use of toilets, as opposed to laws, which they have in the US.

But regardless of Rowling (I haven’t seen everything she has tweeted and guess I must have missed something ), all of the wrangling I’ve seen over toilets specifically has been from the US.

Toilets and changing rooms seems to be the primary obsession of the transphobes on Mumsnet, which is predominantly UK women.

 

[Callie]

it's going to be a cluster of people pointing at each other as

1. I suspect the security is provided by neither of Bangface or Butlins , instead contracted out to a security firm
2. I suspect that a good proportion of staff that worked for the security firm at Butlins over the summer might have moved on - probably back to Univesrity whether as students themselves or as security staff around either the Students' union' themselves or the 'Student Night Time Environment' ( becaude Normals don't tend to go clubbing on a wednesday night ) which leads to
3. sub contracting and/or the seldom used 'jacket fillers' being used ...

as others have said Security at Butlin's and Butlins themselves don't have the best reputation with minoritised customers.

I get the impression fro mthe Bangface site that having the event a Butlins was a relatively short notice decision as various partod the site refer to things being done as compensation to peopel who booked on for Southport....

They should all be SIA accredited/registered though right?

 

[Callie]

No, because women are not seen as a threat to men in the way men are to women, and there is no need for men only spaces in the same way. So there is no leverage for transphobes to try and make an issue out toilets.

But then you get men exerting themselves to protect the ladies loos. From ladies.

 

[Lotte]

Toilets and changing rooms seems to be the primary obsession of the transphobes on Mumsnet, which is predominantly UK women.

'Women's rights' on Mumsnet means 'access to same-sex spaces without having to share with trans people'. Not abortion rights, not maternity rights, all that stuff. Just the sacred single-sex spaces.

 

[danny la rouge]

Afaik in this country we have social conventions around use of toilets, as opposed to laws, which they have in the US.

But regardless of Rowling (I haven’t seen everything she has tweeted and guess I must have missed something ), all of the wrangling I’ve seen over toilets specifically has been from the US.

I know you can't reply to the thread but I hope you're still reading and learning.

I'm not sure why you do things like this: you're apparently intelligent. But this is a thread about hate crimes against trans people. It isn't somewhere for debating whether the experiences people report are real or not. For fun devils advocate larks. Surely you can see that?

Even I was aware that the issue of toilets had become a cause célèbre for bigots in the UK. For many years now. And I don't have the direct experience that others here have had. And yet you felt it was OK to say "but only in the US, actually". What on Earth possessed you?

I don't want to single you out when you can't reply. But I really hope this is a learning moment when others (and hopefully you) can reflect and ask themselves if they're doing themselves any favours.

 

[ddraig]

I know you can't reply to the thread but I hope you're still reading and learning.

I'm not sure why you do things like this: you're apparently intelligent. But this is a thread about hate crimes against trans people. It isn't somewhere for debating whether the experiences people report are real or not. For fun devils advocate larks. Surely you can see that?

Even I was aware that the issue of toilets had become a cause célèbre for bigots in the UK. For many years now. And I don't have the direct experience that others here have had. And yet you felt it was OK to say "but only in the US, actually". What on Earth possessed you?

I don't want to single you out when you can't reply. But I really hope this is a learning moment when others (and hopefully you) can reflect and ask themselves if they're doing themselves any favours.

They're an edgelord dickhead troll and have done/do this on all sorts of threads
Wasting your time appealing to them sadly
all just lolz to them, however serious the subject

 

[ska invita]

I would be interested in Bangface’s position on this. It won’t have been their decision - of that I am sure. I expect them to be on the warpath and to make a statement very soon.

yes its butlins security there...judging on accents seemed pretty local....this is a new venue for bangface and a new relationship with security
its a bit of a culture clash as you can imagine
i would say the old Pontins security teams were sound as far as security goes and broadly cool
this lot were at times over keen on searching etc and occasionally uptight
always going to be problems in this kind of situation, hopefully it will be a learning experience for everyone involved (and bangface can continue at the new skegness site)

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I don't think feminism is the problem, a lot of us on this thread who are trans or NB or allies, or indeed non-white, are also feminists.
It's bigotry that's the problem - and people on the right fuel that bigotry by setting people against one another.

Part of this bigotry when it comes to transphobia does show up a lot of issues wrt the way femininity is expected and perceived, in terms of different body-types and physical appearances (and which the pinnacle of public criticism seems to be targeted in terms of athletes who are generally more likely to have a higher percentage of muscle compared to body fat), which are now being policed - actually not so much by white feminists, but by the predominantly white male ruling class who have managed to hook in a small proportion of bigoted people claiming to be feminists and making a lot of media noise about what is (at its very basic) essentially a non-issue, I expect those people are fucking laughing their heads off at the divisions they've managed to create - essentially threatening and weakening both the feminist and the LGBTQ+ movements, by setting people against one another.

White feminism is a real problem so I’d disagree that it can be dismissed as a driving factor.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

White feminism is a real problem so I’d disagree that it can be dismissed as a driving factor.

In what way is white feminism a problem?

 

[Pickman's model]

No, because women are not seen as a threat to men in the way men are to women, and there is no need for men only spaces in the same way. So there is no leverage for transphobes to try and make an issue out toilets.

I don't think I've ever encountered a trans-man in a toilet, ime the gents isn't a social space in the way I gather women's loos can be, and where for example queues more easily form and conversations are had. I've seen women nip into gents to use cubicles in clubs and so on, but generally it's a space in which chat doesn't occur. That's not to say you don't get homophobia occurring in gents, or indeed cottaging taking place - loos at universities apparently sites for that. But the great majority of the time men are in and out without any examination of who else is there

 

[danny la rouge]

White feminism is a real problem so I’d disagree that it can be dismissed as a driving factor.

I’ve a feeling this is a rabbit hole that would be better discussed elsewhere.

 

[Pickman's model]

In what way is white feminism a problem?

I think wf is feminism in which whiteness is privileged and the feminist thought doesn't extend to the same concern for women of colour, but that's just the impression I have

 

[belboid]

White feminism is a real problem so I’d disagree that it can be dismissed as a driving factor.

The idea that the kind of feminism that is opposed to trans rights is ‘white feminism’ is as ignorant and ill judged as anything the TERFs (as in, actual terf’s, not just bigots) come out with.

 

[Orang Utan]

yes its butlins security there...judging on accents seemed pretty local....this is a new venue for bangface and a new relationship with security
its a bit of a culture clash as you can imagine
i would say the old Pontins security teams were sound as far as security goes and broadly cool
this lot were at times over keen on searching etc and occasionally uptight
always going to be problems in this kind of situation, hopefully it will be a learning experience for everyone involved (and bangface can continue at the new skegness site)

‘judging by accents’ - does that mean you’ve seen footage? If so, please share

 

[Pickman's model]

They should all be SIA accredited/registered though right?

All cops are vetted...

 

[ska invita]

‘judging by accents’ - does that mean you’ve seen footage? If so, please share

no i was at bangface and security across the site seemed local

 

[InArduisFouette]

They should all be SIA accredited/registered though right?

yes but that doesn't matter in terms of who is vicariously liable for their actions

the SIA is likely going to be suspending / pulling badges for this individually anyway, it's whether it;s the individuals, the supervision or both ...

 

[Lotte]

I think wf is feminism in which whiteness is privileged and the feminist thought doesn't extend to the same concern for women of colour, but that's just the impression I have

That's pretty much it. See: the number of white western feminists who are pro-Israel but don't give a fuck about Palestinian women.

 

[smokedout]

That's pretty much it. See: the number of white western feminists who are pro-Israel but don't give a fuck about Palestinian women.

More than that, most of them are vehemently pro-Israel in this conflict, including the big names like JKR, Glinner and Bindel.

 

[Orang Utan]

Butlins has issued an apology, though not much clarification or explanation, for the incident at Bangface in Skeg:

https://mixmag.net/read/apology-butlins-bang-face-festival-2024-alleged-transphobic-incident-news/

 

[Lotte]

More than that, most of them are vehemently pro-Israel in this conflict, including the big names like JKR, Glinner and Bindel.

And Burchill, of course. I don't even get why JKR is a Zionist, she's not Jewish or Christian, so no religious reasons, and never seemed that arsed about the I/P situation before. In Glinner's case, it's because he thinks being pro-Palestine puts you on the same side as people who are pro-trans, it also makes you pro-Hamas and therefore pro-rape, and any opposition of Israel is antisemitic, although he doesn't seem as bothered about antisemitism when it's coming from people on his own side.

I'm pretty sure the IDF have weaponised rape against Palestinian women.

 

[krtek a houby]

More international but...

Trump and Republicans push ‘hate and chaos’ with anti-trans ads, advocates say

GOP spent over $65m on ads, with Trump’s most often aired ad targeting Harris for her support of gender-affirming care

www.theguardian.com

Just think of the hate involved here

The GOP has spent more than $65m on ads targeting trans people, the New York Times reported on Tuesday, with the former president’s most frequently aired ad targeting Kamala Harris over her support for gender-affirming care.

 

[Lotte]

Baroness Nicholson has written the most ridiculous condescending letter to the CEO of the Butlins where Bangface was held. I had no idea she was a raver. Gender Cynical link here.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Baroness Nicholson has written the most ridiculous condescending letter to the CEO of the Butlins where Bangface was held. I had no idea she was a raver. Gender Cynical link here.

the Karnemess Nicholson really has got brainworms

 

[Orang Utan]

Wow, that’s bonkers. And clearly written for a wider audience - perhaps she’s fishing for a newspaper column - the prose is rather florid for a letter of complaint

 

[smokedout]

There's a whole thread on mumsnet gushing about the 'brilliance' of this letter. JKR has said it deserves the nuclear equivalent of a chef's kiss. How on earth is anyone taking these people seriously? It's so fucking depressing. It's like being genocided by Hyacinth Bucket.

Here's what LGB Alliance supporter Emma Nicholson had to say about her past support for Section 28 a couple of days ago incidentally.




https://x.com/Baroness_Nichol
@Baroness_Nichol

Simon I am seriously thinking of you and those like you as wishful of AIDS unchecked! I voted for S.28 when there was NO immunisation nor cure.But you and yours wished schools to teach the very behaviour that was the only known cause of AIDS. I as VP of charity CRUSAID - did not.

 

[planetgeli]

"I voted for S.28 (editor - May 1988) when there was no immunisation or cure. But you and yours (!) wished to teach schools the very behaviour that was the only known cause of AIDS."

IV drug use, as well as transmission from male to female partners, was identified as a pattern in 1981 and as a definite between 1983/1984.

And let's add more evidence

In 1986, the Scottish Committee on HIV and Injecting Drug Misuse published a report, known as the McLelland Report, which stated that the Lothian police’s policy of confiscating needles and syringes from users was encouraging sharing and helping to spread HIV. Furthermore, they controversially recommended establishing needle exchange schemes.

This was underscored in 1988, when the government’s drug advisors published their landmark 'AIDS and Drug Misuse' report, which declared unequivocally that stopping the spread of the virus was more important than getting people off drugs.

And in December 1988 the government gave us harm reduction based on them listening (for once) to the ACMD. The only good thing Thatcher ever did.

History of AIDS ‑ Epidemic, Timeline & HIV | HISTORY

HIV and AIDS began spreading among humans in the 1920s and became a public health crisis by the 1980s, before the first effective treatments emerged.

www.history.com

Guerrilla public health

From safe-use guides to needle exchange schemes, Harry Shapiro reflects on 40 years of drug harm reduction in the UK.

wellcomecollection.org