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Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%

8ball said:
Explain what?

I thought the use of these drugs for precocious puberty was common knowledge. Has certainly been discussed on these boards plenty.

This doesn’t mean they were deemed safe, either. They were used initially off-label (which is different to being “prescribed normally”) after careful consideration of the balance of risks. I think later licensing may have been patchy. There was also some occasional use on unusually small children to allow them to “catch up” before hitting puberty (which then determines the final height they may reach). There has been a little controversy about this.
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Studies from the US have shown that between 20-40% of prescriptions are off label and the figure is even higher in paediatric medecine so it is normal. Puberty blockers being used to allow kids to grow taller was actually pretty commonplace but is rarer now. Precocious puberty can be a sign of an underlying problem but the main dangers are psychological distress (much like with trans kids), it does not usually carry physical health risks. The follow up and ongoing studies of puberty blockers used in trans healthcare have not identified any problems and even Cass could not find any evidence of harm.

There are lots of areas of paediatric medicine that are controversial or which may cause long term effects - the widespread use of SSRIs and anti-psychotics being two examples and these are used far more commonly than the tiny number of kids being proscribed blockers. And yet no other area of treatment has been subject to this kind of scrutiny and blanket bans which fly in the face of all expert opinion and are not supported by any evidence of harm.
 
Since the discussion has moved here again perhaps worth a reminder. Puberty blockers are intended to pause puberty. They are not used to resolve or reduce gender dysphoria or even to benefit social or psychological functioning beyond preventing the distress likely to occur from allowing bodily changes to take place which will have a lifelong impact (this is all something Cass failed to understand, probably because she had no experience in trans healthcare).

The optimal treatment for binary trans kids would be cross sex hormones at the onset of puberty without any requirement for blockers. Puberty blockers are used to protect cis kids, or the very small number of trans kids who might regret medical transition. They are a sacrifice trans kids endure to protect those for whom it might turn out to not be the right decision.
 
smokedout said:
Since the discussion has moved here again perhaps worth a reminder. Puberty blockers are intended to pause puberty. They are not used to resolve or reduce gender dysphoria or even to benefit social or psychological functioning beyond preventing the distress likely to occur from allowing bodily changes to take place which will have a lifelong impact (this is all something Cass failed to understand, probably because she had no experience in trans healthcare).

The optimal treatment for binary trans kids would be cross sex hormones at the onset of puberty without any requirement for blockers. Puberty blockers are used to protect cis kids, or the very small number of trans kids who might regret medical transition. They are a sacrifice trans kids endure to protect those for whom it might turn out to not be the right decision.
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which is why WPATH 8 now recommends that Hormones be introduced at 14 or 15 if the young person meets the local equivalent to Gillick ( the 16 in the Original 35 year old Dutch protocol is based on the dutch age of medicla majority at that time ) and their gender identity is well established i.e. those who have been persistent , insisitent and consistent from a very young age and for whom puberty in their AGAB is a clear source of distress
 
Don't think it's been posted yet but this critique of the Cass Report from Yale is well worth reading for those with a genuine interest in this subject.


As researchers and pediatric clinicians with experience in the field of transgender healthcare, we
read the Review with great interest. The degree of financial investment and time spent is
impressive. Its ability to publish seven systematic reviews, conduct years’ worth of focus groups
and deeply investigate care practices in the UK is admirable. We hoped it would improve the
public’s awareness of the health needs of transgender youth and galvanize improvements in
delivery of this care. Indeed, statements of the Review favorably describe the individualized,
careful approach put forth by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health
(WPATH) and the Endocrine Society.3 Unfortunately, the Review repeatedly misuses data and
violates its own evidentiary standards by resting many conclusions on speculation. Many of its
statements and the conduct of the York SRs reveal profound misunderstandings of the evidence
base and the clinical issues at hand. The Review also subverts widely accepted processes for
development of clinical recommendations and repeats spurious, debunked claims about
transgender identity and gender dysphoria. These errors conflict with well-established norms of
clinical research and evidence-based healthcare. Further, these errors raise serious concern
about the scientific integrity of critical elements of the report’s process and recommendations.
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Thought this was good.

Lots of people on twitter are [at]-ing Wes Streeting to sarcastically ask him to get R*wling's views on various medical conditions.

eg:

Hi [at]wesstreeting should I still be taking multiple daily hormone injections (insulin) to manage my Type 1 Diabetes? Have we checked what JK R*wling thinks? Best wishes.

Hi [at]wesstreeting, I have hayfever, do you think I should take antihistamines? I thought I could but the leaflet said there could be side effects like drowsiness and if I'm drowsy I might fall off the tube platform in front of a train which I would regret. Can you ask [at]jkr*wling?

Hi [at]wesstreeting my 71 year old father has lost most of his eyesight. He’s thinking of an experimental procedure in London with specialists. But would you be a doll & have a quick chat with a fantasy fiction writer 4 children first & decide what the correct medical advice is?


alt text below in spoiler

Hi [at]wesstreeting I had a weird mole near my right shoulder, it’s recently changed shape, can you ask JK Rowling if she can take a look at it in the next week or so?
 
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Fascist and transphobic, what a surprise :(

www.bbc.co.uk

Swansea fascist Alex Hutton sentenced to five years after attack

Prosecutors say Alex Hutton held extreme racist, transphobic and homophobic views.
www.bbc.co.uk

Hutton, also known as Alex Edwards, appeared before Winchester Crown Court in Hampshire after pleading guilty to terror offences and an assault motivated by hostility toward the victim because she was trans.
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The story about the nurses in Darlington is just going to inflame more anti-trans violence, isn't it.

The absolute ridiculous of those nurses comparing it to Jim Crow. YOU'RE the ones complaining about sharing a space with someone from a marginalised group you don't like, the hospital even gave you separate rooms but no, you have to have your fifteen minutes of fame and no doubt you'll all be on GB News soon, with JKR praising you for being brave feminist heroines.
 
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Lotte said:
The story about the nurses in Darlington is just going to inflame more anti-trans violence, isn't it.

The absolute ridiculous of those nurses comparing it to Jim Crow. YOU'RE the ones complaining about sharing a space with someone from a marginalised group you don't like, the hospital even gave you separate rooms but no, you have to have your fifteen minutes of fame and no doubt you'll all be on GB News soon, with JKR praising you for being brave feminist heroines.
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Typical Griftian Legal Centre guff , all aobut white cisgender heterosexual so -called 'Christians' getting upset when called out on their bigotry
 
Yep. Oddly, other nurses don't have a problem with it, just this group.

Meanwhile Glinner's now going after cis women who are pro-trans and claiming they're actually men, because any women who disagrees with him isn't a real woman, or she's a handmaiden and should apologise to her mother.

It's amazing how these gender critical men love going after women, isn't it. And classifying us by how fuckable we are.
 
Lotte said:
Yep. Oddly, other nurses don't have a problem with it, just this group.

Meanwhile Glinner's now going after cis women who are pro-trans and claiming they're actually men, because any women who disagrees with him isn't a real woman, or she's a handmaiden and should apologise to her mother.

It's amazing how these gender critical men love going after women, isn't it. And classifying us by how fuckable we are.
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indeed

complete none event for me working in Logistics and distribution, working in an frontline NHS emergency setting and in food service / hospitality ...
 
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InArduisFouette said:
indeed

complete none event for me working in Logistics and distribution, working in an frontline NHS emergency setting and in food service / hospitality ...
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Not for me. I don’t want to change in front of males. Changing rooms should be sex segregated or individual cubicles provided. As you’ll know most theatre changing rooms etc are open plan benches with lockers.

You & I will disagree about sex based segregation of hospital bays or wards for patients, and changing rooms for staff, and for prisons I’d imagine. I think women need protection from men especially when vulnerable (undressing, unwell, or detained).

The tiny minority of men who identify as women do not need centring in this debate and should have separate provision for their safety.

I don’t believe this to be a radical or exclusionary or even especially feminist perspective and reject that label.

A person cannot change sex and that’s just a biological reality. They are however welcome to live as their perception of how the other sex lives, and be afforded dignity and personal respect when doing so. Live and let live.
 
Edie said:
Not for me. I don’t want to change in front of males. Changing rooms should be sex segregated or individual cubicles provided. As you’ll know most theatre changing rooms etc are open plan benches with lockers.

You & I will disagree about sex based segregation of hospital bays or wards for patients, and changing rooms for staff, and for prisons I’d imagine. I think women need protection from men especially when vulnerable (undressing, unwell, or detained).

The tiny minority of men who identify as women do not need centring in this debate and should have separate provision for their safety.

I don’t believe this to be a radical or exclusionary or even especially feminist perspective and reject that label.

A person cannot change sex and that’s just a biological reality. They are however welcome to live as their perception of how the other sex lives, and be afforded dignity and personal respect when doing so. Live and let live.
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Live and let live - and yet you still exclude and insist on denying them their gender and identity.
 
Edie said:
Not for me. I don’t want to change in front of males. Changing rooms should be sex segregated or individual cubicles provided. As you’ll know most theatre changing rooms etc are open plan benches with lockers.

You & I will disagree about sex based segregation of hospital bays or wards for patients, and changing rooms for staff, and for prisons I’d imagine. I think women need protection from men especially when vulnerable (undressing, unwell, or detained).

The tiny minority of men who identify as women do not need centring in this debate and should have separate provision for their safety.

I don’t believe this to be a radical or exclusionary or even especially feminist perspective and reject that label.

A person cannot change sex and that’s just a biological reality. They are however welcome to live as their perception of how the other sex lives, and be afforded dignity and personal respect when doing so. Live and let live.
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It all depends on whether you continue to identify a trans woman as a man. To do so is not exactly affording them dignity and personal respect.
 
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Meanwhile other groups also continue to be robbed of their dignity in various ways whenever an incredibly narrow view on what counts as 'biological reality' rears its ugly head.

There are so many conditions that cause variations of sex characteristics that I cant even begin to keep up with my understanding of them all these days. Only have to scroll down articles like this one (apologies for the pages title which involves a term plenty dont like, which is discussed later in the article itself) to see how many different things are in play:

en.wikipedia.org

Disorders of sex development - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

It would be nice to think that the frequent shitshows involving sports these days might at least help increase awareness of some of these, but sadly I see little signs of that. Too many people still dig in with their binary bullshit that does a disservice to actual reality.
 
oryx said:
It all depends on whether you continue to identify a trans woman as a man. To do so is not exactly affording them dignity and personal respect.
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It’s not a matter of ‘identity’. A person cannot identify themselves out of a biological reality.

I can, and do, pretend that a person is the opposite sex when socially necessary and out of courtesy. Personally I have doubt that this is actually psychologically healthy for them. (Imagine living your life knowing or fearing that underneath the social niceties that everyone knows the truth). But I do it, and that’s out of respect.

The lines I draw personally beyond that is not ‘saying my pronouns’ (it’s immediately obvious I’m a woman), and speaking up for women to have sex segregated spaces when (more) vulnerable from male violence.

I could have my say in consultation about puberty blockers for children through the royal college but it’s not my area so I don’t comment. What I would say from caring for young people (by this I mean someone aged 16 or 17) who have had puberty arrested- and by extension their psychological, sexual and, to some extent, social maturity arrested too- is that it’s not a neutral intervention. It carries in my view significant risk. That’s my observation.

Cass was right, we need a lot more and a lot better research first. Then go from there.
 
Edie said:
It’s not a matter of ‘identity’. A person cannot identify themselves out of a biological reality.

I can, and do, pretend that a person is the opposite sex when socially necessary and out of courtesy. Personally I have doubt that this is actually psychologically healthy for them. (Imagine living your life knowing or fearing that underneath the social niceties that everyone knows the truth). But I do it, and that’s out of respect.

The lines I draw personally beyond that is not ‘saying my pronouns’ (it’s immediately obvious I’m a woman), and speaking up for women to have sex segregated spaces when (more) vulnerable from male violence.

I could have my say in consultation about puberty blockers for children through the royal college but it’s not my area so I don’t comment. What I would say from caring for young people (by this I mean someone aged 16 or 17) who have had puberty arrested- and by extension their psychological, sexual and, to some extent, social maturity arrested too- is that it’s not a neutral intervention. It carries in my view significant risk. That’s my observation.

Cass was right, we need a lot more and a lot better research first. Then go from there.
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This is your often repeated opinion about trans people, but what does it have to do about the thread title and basis?
 
Edie said:
It’s not a matter of ‘identity’. A person cannot identify themselves out of a biological reality.

I can, and do, pretend that a person is the opposite sex when socially necessary and out of courtesy. Personally I have doubt that this is actually psychologically healthy for them. (Imagine living your life knowing or fearing that underneath the social niceties that everyone knows the truth). But I do it, and that’s out of respect.

The lines I draw personally beyond that is not ‘saying my pronouns’ (it’s immediately obvious I’m a woman), and speaking up for women to have sex segregated spaces when (more) vulnerable from male violence.

I could have my say in consultation about puberty blockers for children through the royal college but it’s not my area so I don’t comment. What I would say from caring for young people (by this I mean someone aged 16 or 17) who have had puberty arrested- and by extension their psychological, sexual and, to some extent, social maturity arrested too- is that it’s not a neutral intervention. It carries in my view significant risk. That’s my observation.

Cass was right, we need a lot more and a lot better research first. Then go from there.
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I'm not talking about the pros and cons of puberty blockers and the Cass Report (which I know little about), I'm referring to you persistently misgendering transwomen in your post.

Your post also makes the assumption that a transwoman will be a automatically be a threat, which is incorrect. And a ciswoman can also be a threat to other women.
 
Edie said:
I have no idea cesare but it’s okay to discuss it, and to have different views. Ideas can be challenged.
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You can start your own thread about your views on trans people if you want. But why derail this one? You have nothing to add about transgender hate crime beyond your bigotry. Meh, maybe that's enough as a working example of how bigotry results in transgender hate crime.
 
You do realise a lot of trans people "pass" - usual ugh but it's useful shorthand disclaimer - right Edie? People aren't pretending to us out of courtesy, they're treating us the same as cis wo/men because as far as they know that's what we are. At which point you do have to question just how relevant biological sex always is, outside certain specific situations, imo.

(I do think this is relevant to the thread title because the idea that all trans people are obviously, visibly trans plays into othering and getting hatecrimed)
 
iona said:
You do realise a lot of trans people "pass" - usual ugh but it's useful shorthand disclaimer - right Edie? People aren't pretending to us out of courtesy, they're treating us the same as cis wo/men because as far as they know that's what we are. At which point you do have to question just how relevant biological sex always is, outside certain specific situations, imo.

(I do think this is relevant to the thread title because the idea that all trans people are obviously, visibly trans plays into othering and getting hatecrimed)
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Sure, of course. That doesn’t mean they have changed sex though. And sex will always be fundamentally relevant.

I also have concern that whilst ‘passing’ (agreed, awful term) may be possible in a transient social context, it’s not the case once you get to know someone let alone intimately know them. The limits of medicine and surgery are crude.

I’m just not convinced that denying the reality of a persons body, of themselves, is healthy. That said, for some adults (and I’m aware you are one Iona) that will be the decision they make and want to live by. And that’s as it is. The world is a big place and there’s space for us all. I really hope it works out for you because you seem a lovely person!
 
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