Tory ex-Minister arrested on suspicion of rape

[killer b]

the cops

that's up to the complainant though. the party can't just turn over the complaint to the cops unless she wanted them to.

 

[andysays]

But that imagines political parties and the people who work for them to be something other than they actually are. I'd imagine the complainant - being a tory staffer - complained internally in the first instance because she didn't want a massive party-damaging fallout, just something done about it. Even with an external ombudsman or similar, most complaints would most likely still be initially internal because of the bonds of party loyalty that most party staff feel.

As mentioned above, I'm unclear about whether parliamentary staff, in general, are employed by party or parliament.

If they are explicitly party staff, then I agree, though this maybe calls into question whether it would be better if they were actually employed by parliament rather than party.

There is definitely something highly problematic about the idea that the Chief Whip is the person to deal with this sort of situation,though that certainly isn't meant to excuse his behaviour in this case in anyway, or to blame or criticize the victim for choosing to go to him.

 

[not-bono-ever]

yeah I know, but in any other workplace , going to HR for a serious sexual assault allegation would be utter lunacy- but saying that, you would expect any HR department to immdiately move this up to the filth. Not blaming the victim at all here, but its a strange setup when the party are by deafult expected to deal with such an issue internally.

 

[killer b]

you would expect any HR department to immdiately move this up to the filth.

You wouldn't though, its not up to them. Its up to the complainant.

 

[killer b]

As mentioned above, I'm unclear about whether parliamentary staff, in general, are employed by party or parliament.

If they are explicitly party staff, then I agree, though this maybe calls into question whether it would be better if they were actually employed by parliament rather than party.

There is definitely something highly problematic about the idea that the Chief Whip is the person to deal with this sort of situation,though that certainly isn't meant to excuse his behaviour in this case in anyway, or to blame or criticize the victim for choosing to go to him.

I think their employment status is a bit of a red herring - if you work for a political party as a researcher etc, it's not just a job - you're working towards the electoral success of a party who's ideology you share, and which probably feels like a family as much as a job. There's lots of very powerful reasons why someone might actually want a quiet internal complaint process rather than a damaging external one.

 

[redsquirrel]

At the very least, there should be someone within parliament who doesn't have an explicit party interest to uphold who can deal with such matters.

There is, the independent complaints and grievance scheme - which according to reports Spencer suggested she inform,

I'm not going to defend Spencer, he's a cunt and sounds to have been shit here, but even when there is an official body for people to report issues to, some people are going to go elsewhere, for a variety of perfectly good reasons.

 

[Supine]

Rape has got nothing to do with any HR / internal complaint process. She should have been taken directly to a police station. It’s a police matter.

 

[Badgers]

Rape has got nothing to do with any HR / internal complaint process. She should have been taken directly to a police station. It’s a police matter.

This ^

It is not difficult to understand. However without knowing the victims circumstances given the cruel, lying vindictiveness of this disgraced government it is not black and white.

 

[cyril_smear]

Has any body used their powers of deduction to speculate as to who it might be?

 

[Steel Icarus]

Has any body used their powers of deduction to speculate as to who it might be?

Probably. But posting such stuff on Urban is a definite no-no.

 

[killer b]

Rape has got nothing to do with any HR / internal complaint process. She should have been taken directly to a police station. It’s a police matter.

What if she didn't want to go to the police? Do her employers not still have a duty of care - to her, but also to other people who may come into contact with the accused rapist - to investigate and if necessary act? There are many good (and bad) reasons someone might not wish to complain to the police - the appalling conviction rate, the likelihood that your colleagues and party members will consider you a gold-digging slut, the damage allegations like this are likely to do to the political organisation you believe in and want to be in power, etc, etc. Should women who don't wish to put themselves through that particularly grimy wringer have no other recourse?

 

[equationgirl]

Equally though, after reporting the rape to the police, I think she's entitled to tell senior officials that 'this MP raped me and I want something done about it'.

 

[equationgirl]

Has any body used their powers of deduction to speculate as to who it might be?

Not on urban, ed would be facing a lawsuit and there would be no urban. So don't speculate, please.

 

[redsquirrel]

Rape has got nothing to do with any HR / internal complaint process. She should have been taken directly to a police station. It’s a police matter.

Right so despite the complaint's own wishes the police should be called in at once.

As killer b said there are loads of reasons why a victim may choose not to want to go to the police, but the matter still needs to be dealt with in some manner. That's why most large business/public bodies do have policies about this type of issue.

 

[brogdale]

Right so despite the complaint's own wishes the police should be called in at once.

As killer b said there are loads of reasons why a victim may choose not to want to go to the police, but the matter still needs to be dealt with in some manner. That's why most large business/public bodies do have policies about this type of issue.

I'm sure that the tory whips have a 'policy' with how to deal with such events...it's just not one that they'd be able to commit to paper.

 

[Badgers]

That's why most large business/

We have seen the disgraced governments 'policies' sadly

 

[redsquirrel]

I really don't think people should be playing party politics with this, not only is it too serious but the Tories are not the only party that needs to have questions asked about it, Labour, LibDems, SNP all have their own shit.

 

[Badgers]

I really don't think people should be playing party politics with this, not only is it too serious but the Tories are not the only party that needs to have questions asked about it, Labour, LibDems, SNP all have their own shit.

Don't talk soft

 

[redsquirrel]

Don't talk soft

What you missed Salmond? Hopkins?
This is serious using it as some sort of stick to bash "the tories" is pathetic, and insulting to victims.

 

[Badgers]

What you missed Salmond? Hopkins?
This is serious using it as some sort of stick to bash "the tories" is pathetic, and insulting to victims.

Salmond?

 

[brogdale]

I really don't think people should be playing party politics with this, not only is it too serious but the Tories are not the only party that needs to have questions asked about it, Labour, LibDems, SNP all have their own shit.

Certainly correct, but there's absolutely no reason whatsoever why their approach to handling such issues shouldn't be used to attack the them.

 

[andysays]

What if she didn't want to go to the police? Do her employers not still have a duty of care - to her, but also to other people who may come into contact with the accused rapist - to investigate and if necessary act? There are many good (and bad) reasons someone might not wish to complain to the police - the appalling conviction rate, the likelihood that your colleagues and party members will consider you a gold-digging slut, the damage allegations like this are likely to do to the political organisation you believe in and want to be in power, etc, etc. Should women who don't wish to put themselves through that particularly grimy wringer have no other recourse?

I think some of the discussion here is people talking past each other, or talking at cross purposes.

Her employers clearly do have a duty of care, but this contradicts your earlier assertion that who actually employs parliamentary staff is a red herring.

 

[redsquirrel]

Salmond?

Alex Salmond, former leader of the SNP

 

[killer b]

I think some of the discussion here is people talking past each other, or talking at cross purposes.

Her employers clearly do have a duty of care, but this contradicts your earlier assertion that who actually employs parliamentary staff is a red herring.

it doesn't though, piss off.

 

[Badgers]

Alex Salmond, former leader of the SNP

I did not realise he was guilty?

 

[redsquirrel]

I did not realise he was guilty?

As opposed to someone who has not yet even been charged? FFS
Even if Salmond was innocent there are plenty of questions about his actions, and actions of the party and government.

 

[andysays]

it doesn't though, piss off.

It does though, just you're apparently not interested in discussing anything to do with that, which is fair enough, but really no need to tell me to piss off

 

[equationgirl]

I did not realise he was guilty?

Not guilty on 12 charges, not proven on a further charge.

 

[killer b]

It does though, just you're apparently not interested in discussing anything to do with that, which is fair enough, but really no need to tell me to piss off

The reason her eventual employer's status is a red herring is because regardless who pays her salary her loyalty is to the party, and the party still has a duty of care to her even if parliament is paying for her. This is pretty obvious isn't it?

 

[tim]

that's up to the complainant though. the party can't just turn over the complaint to the cops unless she wanted them to.

Can't they? Surely if you are informed of a crime by a victim, you are advised to inform the relevant authorities, even if the victim asks you not to. That is what we have had drilled into us as part of our safeguarding training.