Maggot
The Cake of Liberty
Do you still think it's a CBBC programme?
torchwood
- Thread starter nightowl
- Start date
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Yeah, Saturday teatime, parents and kids watching it together, totally appropriate.
As a follow-up, they can watch Threads.
What, exactly, does make a show adult, in your opinion?
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Do you still think it's a CBBC programme?
Maybe he does - Divisive Cotton does!
likesfish
You can't park here sir
completely unrealistic like the army's got that many serviceable wagons
half a dozen blokes turning up in a white minibus getting lost going to the cafe sacking it as a bad idea.
"so sir if we don't take part in this crackpot scheme your going to take our kids
oh really?
you and whose army?
you ever seen an angry squaddies wife.
why can't any person who does the wardrobe get squaddies berets right
re the waco thing a uk military would'nt try a daylight raid against armed nutters
b could come up with a better plan than running them over with a tank
half a dozen blokes turning up in a white minibus getting lost going to the cafe sacking it as a bad idea.
"so sir if we don't take part in this crackpot scheme your going to take our kids
oh really?
you and whose army?
you ever seen an angry squaddies wife
.why can't any person who does the wardrobe get squaddies berets right
re the waco thing a uk military would'nt try a daylight raid against armed nutters
b could come up with a better plan than running them over with a tank
Iguana
Well-Known Member
Very few programmes of any kind have no plotholes or just things that are factually incorrect. I think there are 2 things that make the holes forgivable.
1. If it is emotionally engaging enough so the plotholes don't completely disengage you which happens to me a lot.
2. If the plotholes were less a matter of the writer being clumsy or not giving a crap and more a case of them not being able to go into all the minutiae of what would happen in order to keep the pace moving.
As far as I was concerned any plotholes that I noticed didn't disengage me from the story and I can see why the programme makers left out some of the things that might have happened in this scenario. All in all I thought the whole show was brilliant, it really impressed me and I know I'll be affected by it for weeks.
Yet exceptionally honourable, hence the use of his grandson compared to the Cabinets efforts to avoid their children being selected.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Well put.
I've just thought of one thing that did annoy me from the last episode: when they discovered that the aliens were using human children as drugs, they rephrased 'using kids as drugs' a bit too often. When the really camp black American soldier said 'you're shooting up with kids,' I actually laughed.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
I was waiting for a new slogan: The war on aliens on drugs
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Something tells me we shall see more of him before he becomes a big face in a jar.
Corax
Luke 5:16
I agree it'll be gradual. But when he comes back he'll be wearing a cork stopper on his head; you'll see.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
He's honourable, but I found that part and also the idea that he'd been okay with handing over kids in 1965 quite telling for (and appropriate to) the character - because he's also, when it comes down to it, obedient. It's not a coincidence I think that he's "Captain" Jack, always part of a military or paramilitary.
The Doctor, in those circumstances, would have said "no, fuck you all, I'm going to turn the entire fabric of spacetime upside-down so I don't have to do anything bad". He wouldn't have sacrificed anybody consciously. (The tragedy of the Doctor is that whatever he does, people end up dying, even if he tries his best to avoid it, not that he ends up in situations where he is forced to do bad things.)
Jack, though - despite being immortal and having little personal risk resulting from his decisions - takes people's word for things and obeys orders. Sometimes he refuses orders, and after the fact, yes, he feels guilty about it and fucks off out of the solar system to avoid dealing with it. But in the end, despite the Square Jawed Hero image, he always seems to be "unavoidably pushed" into doing things that he then regrets.
This is my current theory anyway and I reckon it's Saturday-night-defensible.
Iguana
Well-Known Member
Well imdb does have Barrowman listed as appearing in the Doctor Who Xmas and New Years Day specials. So if that's correct we'll be seeing him pretty soon.
But he has done on many occasions. We saw at the beginning of the last series that it was The Doctor (and Donna) who destroyed Pompeii and killed 20,000 people in order to save the rest of the planet. And we know the the Doctor played an important part in the Time War which sacrificed his entire species, possibly including his own child(ren), to save the rest of existence from the Daleks. So I think he will actually understand why Jack had to do what he did to Stephen.
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
Just done an all 5 marathon. V.good. Will now cogitate on it and possibley read the thread.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Ah, but the Doctor does things out of inaction rather than deliberate action - he "lets things take their course" out of prior knowledge, rather than actually going out and incinerating people. Jack has no prior knowledge, he's only accidentally a time-traveller.
Now, ethically, the line there is very dodgy and other characters have called the Doctor on that, and he never has a very good defence, but it's a difference in the characters.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
On many levels it's still a kid's programme.
And bits were clunky and didn't work so well, but I was expecting something quite shoddy and it was waaay better than I expected. I don't expect everyone to like it, but if they end the Torchwood thing at this point I don't doubt it will be remembered by Torchwood and Doctor Who fans in a similar way to how Serenity is thought of by Firefly fans.
I think they should end it here, really.
That a camp, jazz-hands show spun off from a show about an alien who thinks humans are fab finishes on a dark, cynical and and frankly dejected tone is quite poetic in my book.
And bits were clunky and didn't work so well, but I was expecting something quite shoddy and it was waaay better than I expected. I don't expect everyone to like it, but if they end the Torchwood thing at this point I don't doubt it will be remembered by Torchwood and Doctor Who fans in a similar way to how Serenity is thought of by Firefly fans.
I think they should end it here, really.
That a camp, jazz-hands show spun off from a show about an alien who thinks humans are fab finishes on a dark, cynical and and frankly dejected tone is quite poetic in my book.
Iguana
Well-Known Member
No in the Fires of Pompeii he learned that Vesuvius was never meant to erupt, but to kill the Pyroville he has to cause the eruption. He has to choose between the 20,000 people living in Pompeii or the rest of the world. He actively has to push a lever to make it happen, which he is prepared to do. Initially Donna tries to discourage him, but when she thinks about what is at stake she puts her hands on the lever too, so she can share the blame in what he has to do. Then as they are escaping, she convinces him to save just one family. (Which is Peter Capaldi's family, so I guess an ancestor of Frobischer.)
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
In so many ways Donna was the best companion he's had since....Romana?
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Was he following orders when he broke into Thames House and stood up to the aliens?
I think the Doctor would have done exactly the same in Jack's position.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBH Firefly was a great show before Serenity ever came along, so the film itself didnt surprise people (unless they had never seen Firefly, of course) as much as Chilren of Earth has done. Lets face it, some of series one of TW and most of series two were rubbish, and the bits that were not rubbish were nowhere near the same league as Children of Earth was.
feyr
evil evil monkey!
i think its a case of getting the balance right. spend too long explaining the science/technicalities of the situation and you'd risk alienating the part of the audience who arent that into the sci-fi side, and taking something away from the immediate emotional drama or whatever. on the other hand, skip over it too much and it does come across as too much of a convient plot device to wrap everything neatly up. in this instance i think it had to be a last minute decision, the deadline for collection of children was amost up, it had to be his grandson because he was the only chid in the building and to cement the idea of jack being someone who "didnt care" ( the reason he was selected to take the children the first time round) . but at the same time it was too rushed, even if they had extended the explanation a tiny bit, it might have flowed better. but i suppose it wasnt really meant to be about Jack stepping in to save the day with his clever solution.
in this series they made even more references to the fact that cardiff Torchood wasnt the first or only torchwood in modern times, particualry when they were in the old london torchwood buildings. the main thing with Cardiff has always been the rift. maybe they were running out of ideas to do with the rift, destroying cardiff hq lets them relocate anywhere. they also made reference to Ianto working at london torchwood before joining cardiff, which could mean you could have more than 1 torchwood at a time. particularly as they have killed off all but 2 of torchwood, leaving a broken time traveller and a heavily pregnant gwen. either the next series is going to have to be more based around diff. characters, or there will be a lot more made of gwen struggling to balance torchwood and family. which would echo slighty Jack and the fact his family in the end always comes second to torchwood
i thought that the doctor is always portrayed more as being able too see the bigger picture, he doesnt always see earth or the human race as the one that needs to be saved, he empathises with other lifeforms too. not too say that he wouldnt have tried to save the children, as they were innocents in the whole thing, and he probably would have done the same thing , but i think it was quite clever that Gwen voiced the question why he wasnt there before deciding it was becasue maybe he was disgusted by the actions of the humans willing to sacrifce the children. Jack,as head of torchwood is meant to protect the earth, which is why it seemed easier to believe that he would be willing to sacrifice the children the first time round to save the rest of the planet.
i like Torchwood, and while part of me would love to see another series, particually another one like this one, i dont think they've left themselves anywhere to go, at least not with captain Jack
Yup, Serenity got the funding to be mad because Firefly was such a big dvd hit, despite being cancelled after after so few episodes
mad.
andy2002
To the Bat-poles!
Only got to see the final part last night and thought it was magnificent - as was the whole week. Sure, there was the odd plot hole (the reason why the government wanted to kill Harkness in the first place making least sense) but because everything else worked so beautifully I found the odd misstep easy to forgive.
I'll be amazed if there isn't more Torchwood - its ratings were terrific and, from what I hear, that audience appreciation score the BBC do was huge.
I'll be amazed if there isn't more Torchwood - its ratings were terrific and, from what I hear, that audience appreciation score the BBC do was huge.
Infidel Castro
Producto Falso
Despite my fear that Barrowman was on the verge of bursting into song at several points in the episode, that last one was a blinder. A genuine surprise. A cracking way to sign off.
The only chance I'll get to see Cardiff on the box now is when they show Britain's Worst City Centre Drunks or whatever they call it when the cameras go out on the town and report the images of revelry to us on the telly.
The only chance I'll get to see Cardiff on the box now is when they show Britain's Worst City Centre Drunks or whatever they call it when the cameras go out on the town and report the images of revelry to us on the telly.
Strumpet
gypsy girl
I did too. Was waiting for him to take a big breath.... .
Infidel Castro
Producto Falso
Same here. Sly buggers.
PacificOcean
Unhinged User
Hurray for Sky One.
How else would we know how those in Cardiff live?
Unless it's all a cover and you really are hiding some alien detective agency?
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
I meant to ask, have Jack and Gwen ever had a 'moment', is it just her getting all girly-luvvy, or is it mutual lust ?
colacubes
Mr Hot Cookie
I think they did in one of the earlier series. Tbf Jack has knobbed nearly everyone who crosses his path though
