Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

[MightyTibberton]

Your contention is that UKIP is the party that most respects the working class of the UK and best represents their interests?

Would that be an astroturf field?

 

[Rsf]

Incidentally, this is good:

Grooming Gangs: Quilliam & the Myth of the 84 Percent

Quilliam are a highly reputable anti extremist organisation that I certainly would trust. Quilliam are part of the solution, extremism is harmful but facts must be faced. Articles trying to explain it all away and say there isn’t a specific problem isn’t likely to help in my opinion. But I don’t believe the left are capable of facing reality so the Robinson/UKIP lot will only continue to grow, I think.

 

[krtek a houby]

Quilliam are a highly reputable anti extremist organisation that I certainly would trust. Quilliam are part of the solution, extremism is harmful but facts must be faced. Articles trying to explain it all away and say there isn’t a specific problem isn’t likely to help in my opinion. But I don’t believe the left are capable of facing reality so the Robinson/UKIP lot will only continue to grow, I think.

What left and what reality?

 

[MightyTibberton]

Quilliam are a highly reputable anti extremist organisation that I certainly would trust. Quilliam are part of the solution, extremism is harmful but facts must be faced. Articles trying to explain it all away and say there isn’t a specific problem isn’t likely to help in my opinion. But I don’t believe the left are capable of facing reality so the Robinson/UKIP lot will only continue to grow, I think.

Except they're not are they because they published a report that was FULL OF LIES. If you trust them in this matter then you are fooling yourself and anyone else you make that case too.

 

[Rsf]

Your contention is that UKIP is the party that most respects the working class of the UK and best represents their interests?

Would that be an astroturf field?

I don’t know if UKIPs policies would actually help the working class much but I’m not even sure what they all are. I’m saying that the establishment have contempt for the working class, the working class are realising this and the centre ground of politics is collapsing, there are openings.

 

[MightyTibberton]

Neil Hamilton.

 

[Rsf]

Except they're not are they because they published a report that was FULL OF LIES. If you trust them in this matter then you are fooling yourself and anyone else you make that case too.

I mean this in the nicest possible way but I think that you just want that to be true and whatever the facts were you would find a way of rationalising that this were so. Majid Nawaz has done more than most to make this country a better place, he’s certainly not a bigot out to blame his own community unfairly. He’s a decent British liberal who always tries to live up to his own principles.

 

[MightyTibberton]

Read the report I linked.

 

[killer b]

this guy.

 

[MightyTibberton]

Don't patronise me.

 

[killer b]

I didn't mean you!

 

[MightyTibberton]

I know. And I meant that to Rsf, who is plainly here recruiting and might as well just post whatever "join now" or "donate here" link they have saved up. . .

 

[MightyTibberton]

And I meant it in the nicest possible way.

 

[krtek a houby]

I mean this in the nicest possible way but I think that you just want that to be true and whatever the facts were you would find a way of rationalising that this were so. Majid Nawaz has done more than most to make this country a better place, he’s certainly not a bigot out to blame his own community unfairly. He’s a decent British liberal who always tries to live up to his own principles.

Ah. Is this the, er, left facing up to the reality you mentioned?

 

[Rsf]

What opinions does Stephen Christopher Yaxley Lennon hold that would represent you?

Well I’m as working class as they come I guess. But I don’t dislike middle or upper class people for simply being who they are. I despise the institutional discrimination there is against the working class though, if Tommy Robinson sounded more like Douglas Murray the media would not have treated him the way they have. From my point of view Tommy Robinson has done two things I approve of and quite a bit wrong. In 2011(ish) he went on a BBC interview with Jeremy Paxman and revealed that grooming gangs were abusing kids and councillors and police officers were conspiring to keep it a secret. I commend him for revealing that at a time when it was still being covered up. I also appreciate him highlighting the double standards with free speech and the lack of free speech. I want politicans to fix these issues, prosecute those who conspired to hide the grooming gangs, and create something like the USAs first amendment here. MPs have to do this, not mobs on the streets, so I never attend demonstrations.

 

[krtek a houby]

Well I’m as working class as they come I guess. But I don’t dislike middle or upper class people for simply being who they are. I despise the institutional discrimination there is against the working class though, if Tommy Robinson sounded more like Douglas Murray the media would not have treated him the way they have. From my point of view Tommy Robinson has done two things I approve of and quite a bit wrong. In 2011(ish) he went on a BBC interview with Jeremy Paxman and revealed that grooming gangs were abusing kids and councillors and police officers were conspiring to keep it a secret. I commend him for revealing that at a time when it was still being covered up. I also appreciate him highlighting the double standards with free speech and the lack of free speech. I want politicans to fix these issues, prosecute those who conspired to hide the grooming gangs, and create something like the USAs first amendment here. MPs have to do this, not mobs on the streets, so I never attend demonstrations.

Why did he try and fuck up the trials, then, would you say? I'm not entirely sure who was benefiting from that. And I'm not sure at all that he's the answer to all the problems and discrimination that the w/c class face. In fact, I'm sure that many, many w/c class see right through his act.

 

[MightyTibberton]

He didn't "reveal" that, he read it in The Times.

Making a Monster: How The Times Created the Asian ‘Grooming Gang’

 

[Rsf]

And I meant it in the nicest possible way.

Yeah, I thought it might annoy you but I had to say it. I don’t mean it to sound patronising but how else does one say such things? I’ll try and tone the assholeness down now....

 

[8ball]

...he’s a decent British liberal...

That be fighting talk round these parts.

 

[teqniq]

Quilliam, reputable lol. If you say so.

 

[Rsf]

Why did he try and fuck up the trials, then, would you say? I'm not entirely sure who was benefiting from that. And I'm not sure at all that he's the answer to all the problems and discrimination that the w/c class face. In fact, I'm sure that many, many w/c class see right through his act.

Because he’s either naive or a gambler/chancer who isn’t afraid to sail close to the wind I suppose. I doubt he was some evil four d chess player who planned to cause a mistrial and generate public outrage as part of a master plan. I’d guess that he thought if he asked the coppers if it was ok to film there and they said yes and if he didn’t say anything that hadn’t already appeared in the press he was safe. He was wrong. I think he also thought because some of them were turning up for sentencing that day he couldn’t cause a mistrial, he was wrong about that too and I think only some verdicts were reached by that point.

 

[Rsf]

That be fighting talk round these parts.

Haha is it now... Well for what it’s worth I don’t agree with everything he says either. I don’t agree with Majid’s internationalism. I agree with him on secularism, free speech (even for “vile” opinions providing they are not encouraging people to do something illegal) and individual human rights. But someone having different opinions to me doesn’t mean they are not a decent person, only totalitarian bigots think like that

 

[krtek a houby]

Because he’s either naive or a gambler/chancer who isn’t afraid to sail close to the wind I suppose. I doubt he was some evil four d chess player who planned to cause a mistrial and generate public outrage as part of a master plan.

And yet, it's turned out remarkably well for him. He's practically a martyr and there's not just domestic, but international support for the guy.

I'd say there's quite a bit of the gambler/chancer and sailor/chess player about him and his advisers.

 

[8ball]

...but someone having different opinions to me doesn’t mean they are not a decent person, only totalitarian bigots think like that

New guy, eh?

 

[MightyTibberton]

That "Regressive Left" account on Medium is quite good:

A Challenge To Quilliam: Publish Your Evidence For Your Mythical “84%”

 

[existentialist]

Because he’s either naive or a gambler/chancer who isn’t afraid to sail close to the wind I suppose. I doubt he was some evil four d chess player who planned to cause a mistrial and generate public outrage as part of a master plan. I’d guess that he thought if he asked the coppers if it was ok to film there and they said yes and if he didn’t say anything that hadn’t already appeared in the press he was safe. He was wrong. I think he also thought because some of them were turning up for sentencing that day he couldn’t cause a mistrial, he was wrong about that too and I think only some verdicts were reached by that point.

You've worked hard at this, I'll give you that...

 

[MightyTibberton]

Mmm.

Maajid Nawaz’s Duplicity Feeds The Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories Against Him

 

[butchersapron]

The odd quilliam thing that hasn't been noticed.

 

[Rsf]

Mmm.

Maajid Nawaz’s Duplicity Feeds The Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories Against Him

I knew the far right hated Maajid Nawaz, but thanks to this site I’ve now learned that the far left have no time for him either. I shouldn’t be surprised I suppose, as I said earlier the far left and far right have a lot in common with one and other. I imagine the Islamists hate him too because he was once one of them and is now devoting his time to countering extremism in all forms. I have a lot of respect for the man.

 

[Rsf]

Th

The odd quilliam thing that hasn't been noticed.

Thanks for the link, so the southern poverty law centre have given Maajid’s foundation over 3 million quid. Nice. Didn’t realise his work was so well funded. Never heard of the Southern Poverty Law Center before, do they make a habit of throwing such accusations around? Or was this just a one off? I always thought throwing such accusations around was a far left thing, the more these accusations are thrown the less they mean.