Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

[SpookyFrank]

This is lame...

So everyone and his mum should have foreseen the attack and defended that pub to the last breath? You got any thoughts on how that might work?

 

[TopCat]

So everyone and his mum should have foreseen the attack and defended that pub to the last breath? You got any thoughts on how that might work?

They were the wrong type of anti facists to support.

 

[smokedout]

So everyone and his mum should have foreseen the attack and defended that pub to the last breath? You got any thoughts on how that might work?

I'm not sure anyone's criticising for the pub being undefended, people were drinking all over, it would have been impossible to protect them all. My criticism specifically is that whilst this was taking place the demo was being marched off in the opposite direction and then called it a day despite the day being far from over and despite it being known when people dispersed that fascists had just attacked a pub full of left wing drinkers.

 

[smokedout]

So had there been subsequent attacks then they absolutely would have been undefended because everyone had fucked off home after calling the day a back slapping success.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Unless somebody had got prior info that he was going to be attacked and thought "nah fuck it let him get battered" I don't think it's relevant. Not wanting to share a pub with someone doesn't mean you wouldn't defend them if it came down to it.

eta: x-posted with smokedout

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'm not sure anyone's criticising for the pub being undefended, people were drinking all over, it would have been impossible to protect them all. My criticism specifically is that whilst this was taking place the demo was being marched off in the opposite direction and then called it a day despite the day being far from over and despite it being known when people dispersed that fascists had just attacked a pub full of left wing drinkers.

I've long since drawn a mental distinction between 'antifascists' and 'people who follow SUTR marches'. The latter have never been worth relying on, and often actively hinder efforts to get fash off the streets.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Anyway just as well the Antifa types went to find a safe space rather than shit themselves when it kicked off.

Load of macho bollocks. Show me someone who doesn't have any reservations about wading into a large-scale pub brawl and I'll show you a fucking idiot.

 

[smokedout]

I've long since drawn a mental distinction between 'antifascists' and 'people who follow SUTR marches'. The latter have never been worth relying on, and often actively hinder efforts to get fash off the streets.

And yet everyone, including AFN folk as far as I could tell marched off to Victoria. There was not a soul about by the time the fascists mobilised in Trafalgar Square, they could have done pretty much whatever they wanted and did, which as it happened was get pissed and sing no surrender and whose streets our streets whilst climbing all over the statues with big victorious grins on their fucking faces.

 

[SpookyFrank]

And yet everyone, including AFN folk as far as I could tell marched off to Victoria. There was not a soul about by the time the fascists mobilised in Trafalgar Square, they could have done pretty much whatever they wanted and did, which as it happened was get pissed and sing no surrender and whose streets our streets whilst climbing all over the statues with big victorious grins on their fucking faces.

Big look-at-me demos have never been much use for effective mobilisation against fascists. The best actions I've been involved in have involved multiple small groups, good communication, adaptability and intelligence. By the time enough of them have formed up unopposed to attack anything, you've already lost. Doesn't matter how many bodies you throw into the fray at that point.

 

[butchersapron]

So everyone and his mum should have foreseen the attack and defended that pub to the last breath? You got any thoughts on how that might work?

Back up you what you were told.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Back up you what you were told.

I don't work for you.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't work for you.

Do it for the kidz curly.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Do it for the kidz curly.

Name anti-fascists on a public board for the kids? Yeah, no.

 

[butchersapron]

Name anti-fascists on a public board for the kids? Yeah, no.

You don't need to and were not asked to.

If you levels of evidence have devolved to some people told me...then you're not much use as an anarchist. The SN8 would have loved you So, up the ladder to the treehouse you go

 

[SpookyFrank]

You don't need to and were not asked to.

If you levels of evidence have devolved to some people told me...then you're not much use as an anarchist. The SN8 would have loved you So, up the ladder to the treehouse you go

I wouldn't be much use as an anarchist without connections to people I can trust. Even less so if I sold out those trusted connections at the behest of some old grouch from the internet.

 

[The39thStep]

I don't care about slogans but if there are people targeting w/c organisers that is cause for grave concern.

Just so that I can express my grave concern about w/class organisers being targeted let me tell you an anecdote that may or may not be true about antifa types refusing to be in a pub with the w/class organiser who was actually targeted along with a women comrade because my opinion that he is a known misogynist, antisemite and twat is far more important than actually showing any sign of grave concern or solidarity with w/class organisers being targeted.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Just so that I can express my grave concern about w/class organisers being targeted let me tell you an anecdote that may or may not be true about antifa types refusing to be in a pub with the w/class organiser who was actually targeted along with a women comrade because my opinion that he is a known misogynist, antisemite and twat is far more important than actually showing any sign of grave concern or solidarity with w/class organisers being targeted.

Are you a child? Can you not grasp two bad things being true at the same time? Fascists attacking unions bad, arseholes rising to positions of power in unions also bad.

 

[Pickman's model]

Are you a child? Can you not grasp two bad things being true at the same time? Fascists attacking unions bad, arseholes rising to positions of power in unions also bad.

People describing other people as known misogynists and anti-semites and refusing to offer evidence also bad.

 

[SpookyFrank]

People describing other people as known misogynists and anti-semites and refusing to offer evidence also bad.

Search for his name on this site.

 

[Red Sky]

I've heard from some antifa types that they went into the same pub which fash later attacked but spotted Hedley, a known misogynist, antisemite and twat, and decided to drink elsewhere instead.

Fuck off with this bullshit. Divisive rumour mongering.

 

[Pickman's model]

Search for his name on this site.

You're full of fail. He's at worst believed to have assaulted CL, there's no way you or I actually know what happened between them. Tell you what, you search what I've previously said about him. Oh: and if you're relying on this site for the anti-semites claim you should retract now.

 

[Red Sky]

SH spoke publicly on the SUTR truck. He then went round the corner to a pub with some RMT people. There were roving groups of the opposition around* One of those groups had a pop at an obvious group of lefties.

SH was on the SUTR demo. I don't know what precautions for exactly this predictable eventuality they took.

It was SUTR that decided to announce from their truck that it was time to disperse


*This was not the only scrap.

 

[butchersapron]

idiot.

Don't help by putting it out there ffs

 

[Red Sky]

Don't help by putting it out there ffs

What out there?

 

[Red Sky]

"working class anti fascist , rather than some Antifa type".

Bit tautological this. Presuming that by "Antifa type" you mean non working class anti fascist.

 

[Red Sky]

They were the wrong type of anti facists to support.

Do you really think they were left in the lurch? Or that they left the SUTR demo and found a pub to sit in?

 

[Nigel]

Haven't watched that, but I imagine you mean he claims there were casualties on both side etc. The only pictures are of SH himself having got a bloody nose.

The thing is that he was one of the speakers on the Stand Up to Racism float (I didn't realise this at the time, but have since pieced it together), and so is/was presumably approved by/working with them.

It was SUTR who 'announced' that things were over and that everyone should go home, marching together to St James Park station 'for everyone's safety', but SH ended up in a pub on the way and got attacked.

And Hope Not Hate appear to have been first to tweet about this, and it was then picked up by other media, with the result that the 'story' is now 'TU leader and anti-fascist gets beaten up'.

That, more than anything, will encourage TR supporters and other fash.

I've read things on here about how SUTR's influence has undermined anti-fascist activity; yesterday was the first time I saw it for myself. It's a shame that the efforts of so many have been undermined by so-called leaders...

100% Agree with you on this one !
Opening up the organising to this 'other' group acting as naively or worse well manipulated as what happened this Saturday is a serious aberration & one that needs to be seriously discussed amongst militant and independent anti fascists !

 

[Johnny Vodka]

There's a great clip of a fash getting pwned by a police horse - think it's only on twitter and not on youtube, or I'd embed.

 

[The Flying Pig]

And yet everyone, including AFN folk as far as I could tell marched off to Victoria. There was not a soul about by the time the fascists mobilised in Trafalgar Square, they could have done pretty much whatever they wanted and did, which as it happened was get pissed and sing no surrender and whose streets our streets whilst climbing all over the statues with big victorious grins on their fucking faces.

100% Agree with you on this one !
Opening up the organising to this 'other' group acting as naively or worse well manipulated as what happened this Saturday is a serious aberration & one that needs to be seriously discussed amongst militant and independent anti fascists !

Whether we like it or not everyone has their part to play however little or small. Sometimes you work with people who you would normally be politically opposed to but unite against the FLA, EDL and others out yesterday. We don't have to follow the so called organisers. Big up to the RMT on getting so many of their members out yesterday and so many banners. As for SH is this or that, he was just one of many RMT supporters and for those people we should give 100%.

 

[Nigel]

Whether we like it or not everyone has their part to play however little or small. Sometimes you work with people who you would normally be politically opposed to but unite against the FLA, EDL and others out yesterday. We don't have to follow the so called organisers. Big up to the RMT on getting so many of their members out yesterday and so many banners. As for SH is this or that, he was just one of many RMT supporters and for those people we should give 100%.

Agree with what you say regarding Steve Hedley, however, what you are saying, if you understand and have knowledge of what happened during the end of demonstration yesterday I find naive at best if not dangerous !
However in my opinion details shouldn't be discussed on public forum, but does need to be discussed within AFN & other independent/militant anti fascist groups !
There are quite a few people unhappy with the way things were organised on Saturday, we must learn from our mistakes and sort this out !
If you think that the SWP or people involved in their front organisations are not going to act opportunistically or with integrity, after decades of empirical examples proving the contrary, then your naivety goes beyond reason !