Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

[The Flying Pig]

Agree with what you say regarding Steve Hedley, however, what you are saying, if you understand and have knowledge of what happened during the end of demonstration yesterday I find naive at best if not dangerous !
However in my opinion details shouldn't be discussed on public forum, but does need to be discussed within AFN & other independent/militant anti fascist groups !
There are quite a few people unhappy with the way things were organised on Saturday, we must learn from our mistakes and sort this out !
If you think that the SWP or people involved in their front organisations are not going to act opportunistically or with integrity, after decades of empirical examples proving the contrary, then your naivety goes beyond reason !

No naivety at all, I am fully aware of how the UAF type demos work, So am surprised why once again demonstrators on mass seemed to have followed their lead. As hopefully we are all aware, there have been times at previous demos when the organisers have marched the demo in the opposite direction away from fascists. So rest assured I am fully aware how the SWP/UAF often work.

 

[Red Sky]

No naivety at all, I am fully aware of how the UAF type demos work, So am surprised why once again demonstrators on mass seemed to have followed their lead. As hopefully we are all aware, there have been times at previous demos when the organisers have marched the demo in the opposite direction away from fascists. So rest assured I am fully aware how the SWP/UAF often work.

These central London demos are a bind. Without the UAF numbers there's no hope of countering the fascists and yet the UAF aren't interested in that.

The RMT and other unions have thrown their weight behind the SWP fronts - so what to do?

 

[SpookyFrank]

.

 

[Nigel]

These central London demos are a bind. Without the UAF numbers there's no hope of countering the fascists and yet the UAF aren't interested in that.

The RMT and other unions have thrown their weight behind the SWP fronts - so what to do?

Change Tactics
Adapt
Talking to people in and around S H, I don't think he is particularly favourable to UAF/SUTR but sees it as a necessity at the moment ! After unfortunate events last Saturday, there's a possibility he may change his views !

 

[The39thStep]

These central London demos are a bind. Without the UAF numbers there's no hope of countering the fascists and yet the UAF aren't interested in that.

The RMT and other unions have thrown their weight behind the SWP fronts - so what to do?

At some point having a full and frank discussion with those involved in the attack might be a way of beginning the healing process . I've always found that small group discussions mean that people listen better and pay more attention than in larger groups.Less froth/white noise.

 

[Red Sky]

Change Tactics
Adapt
Talking to people in and around S H, I don't think he is particularly favourable to UAF/SUTR but sees it as a necessity at the moment ! After unfortunate events last Saturday, there's a possibility he may change his views !

The trouble is always changing tactics to the last thing that happened. Always fighting the previous battle.

What's the next move for the Free Tommy coalition ? Speeches from the stage would indicate that the rump of UKIP would like to turn this into an electoral movement. This wasn't greeted with a lot of enthuisiasm from the floor but might be one direction.

Rallies in central London without an external event (terrorist attack, Tommy gets attacked in prison etc) seem to be offering diminishing returns.

So what they do next is the crucial thing.

 

[Red Sky]

At some point having a full and frank discussion with those involved in the attack might be a way of beginning the healing process . I've always found that small group discussions mean that people listen better and pay more attention than in larger groups.Less froth/white noise.

Well perhaps a realisation that the AFN isn't the Clapton Ultras would be useful.

 

[The39thStep]

Well perhaps a realisation that the AFN isn't the Clapton Ultras would be useful.

I meant with those who were involved in the attack on the RMT

 

[emanymton]

These central London demos are a bind. Without the UAF numbers there's no hope of countering the fascists and yet the UAF aren't interested in that.

The RMT and other unions have thrown their weight behind the SWP fronts - so what to do?

You seem to be suggesting that the SWP is somehow leading the unions down a less militant path, when it is more likely the other way round.

 

[Red Sky]

You seem to be suggesting that the SWP is somehow leading the unions down a less militant path, when it is more likely the other way round.

Potentially. Although many now seem to be calling for the unions to organise anti fascism directly the fact that they're legally incorporated bodies with salaried staff and assets does make that tricky.

 

[Red Sky]

I meant with those who were involved in the attack on the RMT

I think that chat's been had by the look of it.

 

[Pickman's model]

You seem to be suggesting that the SWP is somehow leading the unions down a less militant path, when it is more likely the other way round.

Or maybe they're arm in arm happy to go down the path together

 

[emanymton]

Potentially. Although many now seem to be calling for the unions to organise anti fascism directly the fact that they're legally incorporated bodies with salaried staff and assets does make that tricky.

Individual union members will have a range of opinions. Let's be frank there will be some who are TR supporters.

But the leadership will want to stay awy from anything remotely controversial like its the plague.

 

[emanymton]

Or maybe they're arm in arm happy to go down the path together

Well yeah, i don't think they are exactly kicking and screaming. If nothing else 'we need to keep the unions onside' is a way for the SWP leadwrship to deflect criticism from their own membership .

 

[hot air baboon]

What's the next move for the Free Tommy coalition ? Speeches from the stage would indicate that the rump of UKIP would like to turn this into an electoral movement. This wasn't greeted with a lot of enthuisiasm from the floor but might be one direction.

Rallies in central London without an external event (terrorist attack, Tommy gets attacked in prison etc) seem to be offering diminishing returns.

So what they do next is the crucial thing.

(un)fortunately Gerard Batten is a total charisma free zone

You can't say that of TR though & I think I can confidently predict a triumphant "victory rally" when he does finally get out. But at that point the real moment of decision is reached : Does he pick up the go-pro & continue the "journalism" or re-boot EDL MkII with all the hassle that brings - which I'm not convinced he wants to do - but will fulfill the promise he has now assumed as some sort of leader-in-waiting / king across the water.

Atm he is serving a useful function where he is martyring himself for the cause.

 

[Red Sky]

(un)fortunately Gerard Batten is a total charisma free zone

You can't say that of TR though & I think I can confidently predict a triumphant "victory rally" when he does finally get out. But at that point the real moment of decision is reached : Does he pick up the go-pro & continue the "journalism" or re-boot EDL MkII with all the hassle that brings - which I'm not convinced he wants to do - but will fulfill the promise he has now assumed as some sort of leader-in-waiting / king across the water.

Atm he is serving a useful function where he is martyring himself for the cause.

I think he might have underestimated the state and/or his own popularity. He can be released at the half way point but his license could easily prevent him going online or speaking to anyone but his family. Paul Golding is on some kind of post sentence supervision like that. This all has precedent in how the AR prisoners were treated .

 

[Poi E]

Ahh, silenced again by the elite.

 

[Red Sky]

Ahh, silenced again by the elite.

Absolutely, but without a convincing John the Baptist figure he's a bit fucked.

 

[The39thStep]

Unlike the EDL though this isn't just the usual suspects plus a bunch of up for it casuals, although that's what the more vocal crowd around Nelson's Column looked like. But around the square and in the pub there were lots of older eccentric ukip types, young smartly dressed generation identity types and 4chan type geeks. The constituency seems to have broadened considerably, which might not do them much good in the long run, it remains to be seen, but they looked very different to the traditional far right crowd.

I dont usually quote Searchlight but I found this quick briefing on the alt-light and the alt-right quite useful .Its problematic because the siutuation is quite fluid and these demonstrations have seen both trends plus the TR brigade and fascists combine together, with Gen -Id trying to recruit from them all.Its clearly the alt-lite who are behind the Welcome Trump stunts and the Trump Arms and they have also put a lot of work into the Free Tommy stuff.
The International Alternative Right

 

[DaveCinzano]

I dont usually quote Searchlight but...

 

[sim667]

Lennon's appeal is today.

 

[sim667]

I have to say the updates from this twitter user are much better than the independent ones

Amos Quito (@hubare) on Twitter

 

[The39thStep]

This comedy gold. This plank is like an alt right Alan Partridge. He mistakes the Holiday Inn for the BBC , thinks he's being edgy in Manchester wearing a Tshirt having a go at the Mayor of London, cant get his equipment to work and then the expert in common law who hes waiting to turn up turns out to be some dopey hippy. Wont go to Costa Coffee and five minutes later is looking for somewhere that isnt Halal.

 

[2hats]

Newsnight had an item on this last night. I link it here FWIW.

 

[twentythreedom]

Fuuuucking hell

Eta The39thStep

 

[The39thStep]

Newsnight had an item on this last night. I link it here FWIW.

The woman in the red dress is exactly the sort of person who supports TR but who cannot be written off as a fascist

 

[hot air baboon]

if anyone is so minded Steve Hedley on Galloway's RT show ( yeah I know) ( 2nd half ).

Interesting for SH somewhat critical comments on the posture of the Police in relation to the whole incident & possible complaint "friend was banging on side of van - didn't come out til it was all over"

Episode 237

 

[Kaka Tim]

The woman in the red dress is exactly the sort of person who supports TR but who cannot be written off as a fascist

but she was pretty disgusted when it was clear what the kind of people make up his hard core support.

 

[The39thStep]

but she was pretty disgusted when it was clear what the kind of people make up his hard core support.

Not sure who is his 'hard core' support tbh. Quite clear early EDL that fascists weren't welcome but TR campaign lacks both leadership and structure.

 

[Geri]

if anyone is so minded Steve Hedley on Galloway's RT show ( yeah I know) ( 2nd half ).

Interesting for SH somewhat critical comments on the posture of the Police in relation to the whole incident & possible complaint "friend was banging on side of van - didn't come out til it was all over"

Episode 237

Don't watch RT. It is Russian propaganda.