They weren't the answer to anything it turned out.
Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'
- Thread starter Cloo
- Start date
They weren't the answer to anything it turned out.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Were they not?
Not Life , the Universe or Anything.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
(also 43 group obviously)
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
43 Group surely?
Patteran
A nowadays excuse
That is a very good counter example. Although not explicitly leftist, they weren't prepared to accept the status quo, or demand the state intervene. I dunno. I was lucky enough to meet Beckman a few times through London AFA, & I certainly wouldn't have challenged his anti-fascist credentials. 'Actually, Morris, & this is more of a comment than a question, but without a class analysis...'
ETA Proper Tidy has said the same sort of thing while I was replying
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Their aim was to extinguish a revived fascist street movement (in form of Mosley's Union Movement and british league of ex servicemen) which despite misconception was a powerful force in post war years. They succeeded and took far right until 70s to regroup into any sort of organised threat (although probably for a range of reasons, but still). One of the more successful UK antifascist groups I would have thought
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
There were (and still are) left zionists.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
I dunno, not sure it's fair to politically characterise them like that really. They were a jewish w/c defence org, you're probably right that the majority stance was left zionism but there was no political test or key principles members had to subscribe to (afaik anyway)
Yeah, sorry, mistyped on my tablet.
It was a reference to The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
Proper Tidy
Arsed
I know I got that bit but the first post (they werent the answer to anything) deserved a reply imo (I know 43 is a reference too, maybe I read too much into it)
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
and arguably some could have been described as patriotic
How would you say Israeli nationalism has turned out?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
have you heard of the 62 group?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Proper Tidy
the 43 group, for all their merits and strengths, simply didn't prevent a resurgence of fascism as you suggest ('took far right until 1970s to regroup into any sort of organised threat').
the 43 group, for all their merits and strengths, simply didn't prevent a resurgence of fascism as you suggest ('took far right until 1970s to regroup into any sort of organised threat').
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Yeah fair
What is pathetic is that you can't even see how the likes of Thomas Mair fit your 'patriot underdog' description/nonsense. But you carry on blaming me eh.
My heart sinks at the thought of continuing this line of discussion with you but by me saying ‘patriotic’ you’ve immediately decided that I definitely mean white English patriotism and in a political sense, rather than, you know, millions of others who aren’t that.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Whats that got to do with my comment re the 43 group?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Chanting Italian slogans. Looked daft last week. Save yet breath for fighting. Smoke is good to confuse and obscure but is stupid otherwise.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
a lot of what happens on demos puts me off, let alone people who've never been involved
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I know lots of people who are Labour voters, respect the Queen, and are hugely proud of their/our Grandads who shot facists.
People who battered the BNP when they tried to sell Spearhead down the Old Den.
Are we prepared to attract them into the fight? What compromises might this require?
If we don't bring them in, what do we do instead?
People who battered the BNP when they tried to sell Spearhead down the Old Den.
Are we prepared to attract them into the fight? What compromises might this require?
If we don't bring them in, what do we do instead?
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
No problem with that, but we don't have to be soft on nationalism ourselves as part of the bargain (I may be mistaken but Magnus McGinty seems to be suggesting it's alienating if we don't go all 'soft nationalist').
I think some forget that anti fascism isn’t communism. It really doesn’t want to be a niche in the same way the far left is.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
might as well go home and give up, if it's necessary that everyone must have grand politics by our standards
one of the tv programmes about afa mentioned they had a lib dem activist in, iirc, leeds. i'm not so fussed about people's politics, in anti-fascism, as long as they're er anti-fascist. other things, they can get worked on later.
Always said I'd rather work with a Lib Dem who can read a map and throw a punch over any number of ultra leftists who can barely tie their own shoe laces.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i always wondered why the chelsea boot was so popular in those circles
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh afa have left big shoes to fill
It's worse than that even . London Anti Fascist Assembly (the latest whizz bang scheme) spent the run up to the Tommy thing tweeting about TERFS and Extinction Rebellion.
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