The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
This will be controversial for some posters but imv there is some truth in this .Tommy Robinson & ‘Grooming Gangs’: Britain Persecutes Journalist | National Review
Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'
- Thread starter Cloo
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Which bits?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It’s a pile of bigoted shite in the fucking National Review. Why the fuck would you post blithely that there was “truth” in it? Please be quite specific.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Dont know about you but I tend to read articles and then pass judgement rather than dismiss them just because they are in a journal or paper whose view I might not support. I'm not into echo chambers.
I nearly ended up with cutting and pasting the entire article in blocks to answer your question. I hate to answer a question with a question but to save me the bother what bits led you to blithely come to the conclusion that this was a pile of bigoted shit?
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Ah hell I'm up early, why not. I may not do the whole article, because I suspect I'll get bored given its early howlers.
He's not a journalist. None of his "reports" offer basic journalistic fact checking, right to reply etc. He's a propagandist for the far right. That they refer to him as such is the first indication that Douglas Murray (whose other recent articles include "Enoch had a point" and "stop and search ain't racist guv" (I paraphrase) may not be entirely unbiased here.
Ho ho very good, that is indeed far more palatable than "collection of fascists, hooligans and hangers-on usinng 'anti-Islamization' as a handy blind for throwing up Nazi salutes in public."
The EDL here, being portrayed as just a band of poor little victims (I must've missed the bit where they were subject to mass arrests).
What was there to understand? It's the same tactic the far-right has been trying with more or less success since the NF did their "Britain's full" marches.
It's almost as if they kept doing things which supported the view that it was in fact full of fascists, and people making excuses for them weren't likely to be on the level as a result.
It's here that our cynical hack suddenly becomes as credulous as a toddler. My goodness Douglas, so even though Tommy was a former BNP member, got arrested for racially-aggravated assault, founded the most famous far-right group of modern times and has in fact spent most of the last decade doing literally nothing other than slag muslims off for collectively being paedos, now he says he's not racist well, he's not racist.
Yes, I too get annoyed at headbangers at the fringes of my own movement who have been around for ages yet still can't show any message discipline and make my life more difficult.
Well yeah that's the crux of this isn't it. Tommy is a career far-rightist who identified that the EDL marches couldn't do more than organise boneheads and start rucks, and who had been facing pressure over the upset his group had caused, so he tried something else. He didn't get another job, or change anything about his views, he just shifted his method of attack.
I'll advised? Just washing over that one quickly are we Douglas?
etc etc. Apparently it's "brave" for this tool to ambulance chase an incident in another country to support his campaign against migrants, and not evidence that maybe he's going to some fairly spectacular lengths to perpetuate a propaganda message by schlepping out to Italy - a country where racism, violence and pressure against migrants is at its most febrile anywhere in the EU bar maybe Greece, to find an example of Migrants Behaving Badly who don't like media sources which have continually demonised and dehumanised them.
I could go on but you get the idea. Douglas is a twisty little shit in this article, doing his best to go through Robinson's exceedingly long rap sheet in such a way as to totally exonerate him. But every single one of the incidents he highlights takes place in a context that Mr "Enoch had a point" is at great pains to avoid.
I don't blame you for being a bit bamboozled The39thStep, this is the higher end of how the hard right operates, pretending that all these little incidents don't add up to racism, just "asking questions" etc. But this is also standard tactics, and if you're going to engage in debate on it you need to be significantly more savvy about working out people's motivations and agit-prop techniques. Oh and just one more thing, as it's specifically on topic:
Douglas, unlike not-a-journalist Tommy, has enough nous not to endanger an ongoing court case, against Britain's extremely strict reporting restrictions. He can call the outcome "depressing" if he likes, but the facts are the facts. No NCTJ-trained journalist would ever be stupid enough to do what Robinson did. And that's why he's inside. Not because he's being "persecuted."
Robinson nearly collapsed a criminal investigation into child rape because even though he'd been told about the law, he couldn't be fucked to follow it and preferred to use the case to build up his own media following among the sort of twat who feels all warm and fuzzy when someone says muslims are paedos. That's pretty fucking bad.
Yeah... hero Tommy Robinson who can't keep his mic in his pants until after a trial. And you recommended this utter bollocks?
He's not a journalist. None of his "reports" offer basic journalistic fact checking, right to reply etc. He's a propagandist for the far right. That they refer to him as such is the first indication that Douglas Murray (whose other recent articles include "Enoch had a point" and "stop and search ain't racist guv" (I paraphrase) may not be entirely unbiased here.
Ho ho very good, that is indeed far more palatable than "collection of fascists, hooligans and hangers-on usinng 'anti-Islamization' as a handy blind for throwing up Nazi salutes in public."
The EDL here, being portrayed as just a band of poor little victims (I must've missed the bit where they were subject to mass arrests).
What was there to understand? It's the same tactic the far-right has been trying with more or less success since the NF did their "Britain's full" marches.
It's almost as if they kept doing things which supported the view that it was in fact full of fascists, and people making excuses for them weren't likely to be on the level as a result.
It's here that our cynical hack suddenly becomes as credulous as a toddler. My goodness Douglas, so even though Tommy was a former BNP member, got arrested for racially-aggravated assault, founded the most famous far-right group of modern times and has in fact spent most of the last decade doing literally nothing other than slag muslims off for collectively being paedos, now he says he's not racist well, he's not racist.
Yes, I too get annoyed at headbangers at the fringes of my own movement who have been around for ages yet still can't show any message discipline and make my life more difficult.
Well yeah that's the crux of this isn't it. Tommy is a career far-rightist who identified that the EDL marches couldn't do more than organise boneheads and start rucks, and who had been facing pressure over the upset his group had caused, so he tried something else. He didn't get another job, or change anything about his views, he just shifted his method of attack.
I'll advised? Just washing over that one quickly are we Douglas?
etc etc. Apparently it's "brave" for this tool to ambulance chase an incident in another country to support his campaign against migrants, and not evidence that maybe he's going to some fairly spectacular lengths to perpetuate a propaganda message by schlepping out to Italy - a country where racism, violence and pressure against migrants is at its most febrile anywhere in the EU bar maybe Greece, to find an example of Migrants Behaving Badly who don't like media sources which have continually demonised and dehumanised them.
I could go on but you get the idea. Douglas is a twisty little shit in this article, doing his best to go through Robinson's exceedingly long rap sheet in such a way as to totally exonerate him. But every single one of the incidents he highlights takes place in a context that Mr "Enoch had a point" is at great pains to avoid.
I don't blame you for being a bit bamboozled The39thStep, this is the higher end of how the hard right operates, pretending that all these little incidents don't add up to racism, just "asking questions" etc. But this is also standard tactics, and if you're going to engage in debate on it you need to be significantly more savvy about working out people's motivations and agit-prop techniques. Oh and just one more thing, as it's specifically on topic:
Douglas, unlike not-a-journalist Tommy, has enough nous not to endanger an ongoing court case, against Britain's extremely strict reporting restrictions. He can call the outcome "depressing" if he likes, but the facts are the facts. No NCTJ-trained journalist would ever be stupid enough to do what Robinson did. And that's why he's inside. Not because he's being "persecuted."
Robinson nearly collapsed a criminal investigation into child rape because even though he'd been told about the law, he couldn't be fucked to follow it and preferred to use the case to build up his own media following among the sort of twat who feels all warm and fuzzy when someone says muslims are paedos. That's pretty fucking bad.
Yeah... hero Tommy Robinson who can't keep his mic in his pants until after a trial. And you recommended this utter bollocks?
High Voltage
In the top 97% of Urban's most interesting posters
you just need to read between the lines for the hidden messages . . . there's more in there I'm sure
Treacle Toes
Time
Emerged on what scene though? He was a petty crim and football hooligan before heading the EDL wasn't he?
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
If "every arm" of the British state includes the Royal Navy, DEFRA or the mass ranks of civil servants working on Brexit, then no, it isn't true.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
The only people who think it's true are people who have never met someone actually targeted by the British State. Tommy can go places without being patted down every five minutes, for example. He's not had his accounts repeatedly requested for perusal. His phones don't mysteriously go missing and he's not continually trailed around after by suspicious white vans. He's not had to change his name (other than to make it sound more proley). If the State gave much of a shit about Tommy he'd know about it.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
It may be a bit over the top but I dont think there is any doubt that he is 'a person of interest' .
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
That said, it's hard to believe that there were no police spies in or around the EDL.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I think his football hooligan c.v is very thin. He took his name from a locally well know hoolie.I think the emergence reference relates to opposition to the Sharia4UK types who were active in Luton and the march that was held.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
No doubt, but again, that's not evidence that Tommy is someone they particularly care about, it's just standard operating procedure for radical groups. They film TUC protests too.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Do you really think that the state keeps a file on anyone whose is vaguely political?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
On anyone whose is vaguely political?
newbie
undisambiguated
The police keep files on people who are criminals and selectively on those they suspect of identifiable potential to engage in criminal activity. They and/or the security services keep files on people prominent in politics. The prison and probation services keep their own records. That's all well known and in their job descriptions and he's going to feature in multiple files. But it's a long way from demonstrating that the British state are 'out to get' him, which requires far, far more evidence than that.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
I.e. active about it - organise or a regular presence on demos, run known websites etc. The police (not the secret state mind, the bit you can make an FoI request to) held details on more than 9,000 "extremists" on their national database (including anyone who went to for example Earth First) until they got told off about it and there's no reason to expect they're not just doing the same thing now behind "operational security".
Douglas Murray is basically the Tommy Robinson that would get invited round for afternoon tea.
His book "The Strange Death of Europe" is a load if Identitarian tripe. He talks about the persecution of Tommy in that.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
The only thing she wants is an annulment
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Most Credulous post of the year
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Must say he's going out of his way to prove he's not a state asset like auld charlie sargent was
