Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

[Pickman's model]

Race does play a part too. If people hadn’t been happy to ignore it there’d have been no void for Robinson to move into.

Yeh if other racists had got there first there'd have been no void for tr to move into.

 

[Pickman's model]

Race does play a part too. If people hadn’t been happy to ignore it there’d have been no void for Robinson to move into.

The simple thing is, it could have been white men or yellow men or black men doing this, yezidi or christian or sikh, the result would have been the same. Because working class women come low in the hierarchy of state concerns whether they're white or asian or black.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yeh if other racists had got there first there'd have been no void for tr to move into.

I assume that’s sarcasm but in case it isn’t: branding people speaking out about it as racists is precisely the problem.

 

[Pickman's model]

I assume that’s sarcasm but in case it isn’t: branding people speaking out about it as racists is precisely the problem.

No it isn't. The problem is not believing the victims in the first place.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

No it isn't. The problem is not believing the victims in the first place.

Yes, partly.

 

[dessiato]

This article puts it quite well.

Telford girls: the wrong kind of victims

A good article. Worth reading.

 

[RD2003]

As has been said rather than admitting they're fucking incompetent and basically don't give much of a fuck about poor people and even less about poor vulnerable young women, it's much easier to insist that they would have absolutely loved to investigate but they were stopped by the nasty politically correct left who were just waiting to pounce and call them racist. Blame shifting classic.

Is this what they said? Did they even mention 'the nasty politically correct left'?

 

[treelover]

Whose culpability?

Plenty of the left are social workers, child welfare officers, etc,

I've never known anybody on the left who might think so. I have, however, known plenty who seem to hold to the idea that ethnic minorities are still as vulnerable and isolated as they were in the 1970s, and that any criticism of what goes on in their communities gives succour to the racists.

Seen as an homegenous block, have a look who is going to the minor public schools now.

 

[Pickman's model]

Plenty of the left are social workers, child welfare officers, etc,

yeh. And your evidence for that is? You're an auld tory and no mistake and you'd proudly announce your alleigance as soon as they're less bloody to claimants

 

[Pickman's model]

Seen as an homegenous block, have a look who is going to the minor public schools now.

Who is going to the minor public schools now?

 

[tim]

Yes, partly.

No, totally

 

[The39thStep]

I'm at a Portuguese Christining do which typically is dragging on and on so I'll reply later ( if not totally three sheets by then or I'll reply tomorrow) Really want to discuss some of the posts made . Thanks

 

[Magnus McGinty]

No, totally

Given it was known by some what was going on and nothing was done, it can’t simply be swept aside as victims not being believed can it?

 

[Pickman's model]

Given it was known by some what was going on and nothing was done, it can’t simply be swept aside as victims not being believed can it?

Obviously it was known about by some, the victims and perpetrators prominent among them.

Which 'some' do you mean?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Obviously it was known about by some, the victims and perpetrators prominent among them.

Which 'some' do you mean?

A council-commissioned report told how social workers knew of the child sex crimes in the late 90s. And in 2016, whislteblowing police chaplain Keith Osmund-Smith was suspended after passing papers to the Mirror.

Whistleblowers silenced for trying to expose UK's worst child sex abuse scandal

Would be interesting to track down this report but I won’t be doing it this evening.

 

[Pickman's model]

Would be interesting to track down this report but I won’t be doing it this evening.

What better thing are you doing?

 

[andysays]

Would be interesting to track down this report but I won’t be doing it this evening.

What that suggests to me is that some of these crimes were reported to the police, and possibly social workers, but that either the victims weren't believed or they were believed but the police and possibly social workers effectively chose to do nothing.

Nothing there suggests that 'race' or phony concerns about 'community cohesion' or any of the other things that Tommy Robinson and his like have been banging on about were actually a factor, so why do you continue to push the line that it was?

 

[Pickman's model]

Magnus McGinty Google inurl:rotherham.gov.uk social workers 1990s rapes filetype[colon]pdf it's not rocket science you know

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I didn't link them but merely mentioned them in the same sentence.

It's naive to think that the police and local authorities were not sensitive to the publicity that would inevitably result from the agitating of self-appointed community leaders and the like, who would inevitably have painted this as a racist issue before it became all too clear what was going on. Better the quiet life. As for the left, where has there been any real analysis or condemnation? It seems to me that they're far more willing to waste time on self-publicising petty entrepreneurs like Yaxley-Lennon and his cardboard Nazi hangers-on than risk undermining their long-held assumption (identical in essence to those of the authorities) that official multiculturalism can never bring problems.

Your saying that leaders of the Muslim community would have protected pedophiles?

 

[19force8]

Your saying that leaders of the Muslim community would have protected pedophiles?

Well leaders of the "white community" did.

Whoops, that just slipped out.

 

[tim]

I assume that’s sarcasm but in case it isn’t: branding people speaking out about it as racists is precisely the problem.

.
The person in question is Tommy Robinson. Are you suggesting that he is not a racist, and that his motivation was not racism?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Maybe he means this bit.

"The problem — as I said in 2015 — is that any challenge Robinson presents is all a secondary issue. The primary issue is that for years the British state allowed gangs of men to rape thousands of young girls across Britain. For years the police, politicians, Crown Prosecution Service, and every other arm of the state ostensibly dedicated to protecting these girls failed them. As a number of government inquires have concluded, they turned their face away from these girls because they were terrified of the accusations of racism that would come their way if they did address them. They decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation."

Wouldn't have happened to nice middle-class girls either. Just poor, white, working-class ones.

This is where the Lennon fella and his ilk may political hay.

The meaning of which Murray immediately makes clear by saying "Tommy Robinson has been treated with greater suspicion and a greater presumption of guilt by the United Kingdom than any Islamic extremist or mass rapist ever has been" i.e. he's talking about muslims. Anyone taking that paragraph and not looking at the rest is being very disingenuous.

Basically the entire article is him saying that TR might have made a few mistakes but he's basically right and has been/is being persecuted for what he says because Islam and the left - with a few extra bits like "every month brings news of another town in which gangs of men (almost always of Pakistani origin) have been found to have raped young, often underage, white girls" (really? well no obviously not really).

It's not very surprising because this is Douglas Fucking Murray writing in the N Fucking RO. This is what he does. What's surprising - or actually not surprising, but depressing - is to see it linked to approvingly here.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

.
The person in question is Tommy Robinson. Are you suggesting that he is not a racist, and that his motivation was not racism?

I wasn’t referring directly to Tommy Robinson. I was talking about the void he moved into and what contributed to it existing.

 

[fishfinger]

...I was talking about the void he moved into and what contributed to it existing.

A momentary lapse of racism.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

A momentary lapse of racism.

Or, you know, politics.

 

[Rob Ray]

Meanwhile, "free speech martyr" Tommy's misunderstood support base has been threatening to rape an actual journalist who overturned reporting restrictions on his case (because she knew what she was doing and wasn't just fucking about to rile up a crowd of racists).

Industry backs 'Tommy Robinson' court reporter after rape threats

This follows on from the big Free Speech for Tommy rally they did the other week after he got banned from Twitter, where a crowd ran off an invited Muslim speaker and punched the mate he'd brought along for protection in the back of the head.

 

[SpineyNorman]

That's not the first time his squalid little band of fuckwits has used threats of rape to intimidate a young female journalist. They were regularly picketing the workplace of a Sheffield Star journalist a couple of years back.

Cowardly cunts.

 

[The39thStep]

I posted the article saying that I thought there was there was some truth in it , I wasnt defending either the publication or the authors politics .I dont want to live in an internet echo chamber so I try and read articles from all sorts of sources. Both Pickmans and Fridgemagnet asked me what bits I though had some truth in so......
1) The overwhelming reaction by many to dismiss EDL supporters as fascist and to dismiss anyone who tried to understand them as fascist.

2) Robinson was suspended from Twitter a site which merrily allows terrorist groups like Lashkar e-Taiba to keep accounts for tweeting out a statistic about Muslim rape gangs that itself originated from the Muslim-run Quilliam foundation.

3)More important, the trial that was coming to a close last Friday is just one part of a trial involving multiple other defendants. It is certainly possible that Robinson’s breaking of reporting restrictions at the Leeds trial could have prejudiced those trials. To have caused the collapse of such a trial would have been more than a blunder; it would have been an additional blow to victims who deserve justice.

4)The problem — as I said in 2015 — is that any challenge Robinson presents is all a secondary issue. The primary issue is that for years the British state allowed gangs of men to rape thousands of young girls across Britain. For years the police, politicians, Crown Prosecution Service, and every other arm of the state ostensibly dedicated to protecting these girls failed them. As a number of government inquires have concluded, they turned their face away from these girls because they were terrified of the accusations of racism that would come their way if they did address them. They decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation.


5)So it will continue. Tommy Robinson will be in prison for another year. And all those people happy with the status quo will breathe a sigh of relief. “Thank goodness that troublemaker has gone away.” Yet their real problem has not gone away. There is no chance of their real problem going away. Because they have no plan for making it go away.They have a vague hope, of course, which is that at some point soon in the coming generations this will all simmer down and the incoming communities will develop similar views about the status of women as the rest of society. And perhaps we will get there someday.

 

[Pickman's model]

I posted the article saying that I thought there was there was some truth in it , I wasnt defending either the publication or the authors politics .I dont want to live in an internet echo chamber so I try and read articles from all sorts of sources. Both Pickmans and Fridgemagnet asked me what bits I though had some truth in so......
1) The overwhelming reaction by many to dismiss EDL supporters as fascist and to dismiss anyone who tried to understand them as fascist.

2) Robinson was suspended from Twitter a site which merrily allows terrorist groups like Lashkar e-Taiba to keep accounts for tweeting out a statistic about Muslim rape gangs that itself originated from the Muslim-run Quilliam foundation.

3)More important, the trial that was coming to a close last Friday is just one part of a trial involving multiple other defendants. It is certainly possible that Robinson’s breaking of reporting restrictions at the Leeds trial could have prejudiced those trials. To have caused the collapse of such a trial would have been more than a blunder; it would have been an additional blow to victims who deserve justice.

4)The problem — as I said in 2015 — is that any challenge Robinson presents is all a secondary issue. The primary issue is that for years the British state allowed gangs of men to rape thousands of young girls across Britain. For years the police, politicians, Crown Prosecution Service, and every other arm of the state ostensibly dedicated to protecting these girls failed them. As a number of government inquires have concluded, they turned their face away from these girls because they were terrified of the accusations of racism that would come their way if they did address them. They decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation.


5)So it will continue. Tommy Robinson will be in prison for another year. And all those people happy with the status quo will breathe a sigh of relief. “Thank goodness that troublemaker has gone away.” Yet their real problem has not gone away. There is no chance of their real problem going away. Because they have no plan for making it go away.They have a vague hope, of course, which is that at some point soon in the coming generations this will all simmer down and the incoming communities will develop similar views about the status of women as the rest of society. And perhaps we will get there someday.

your 1) is at best a questionable truth. Overwhelming reaction of many? How many? Is this many a minority or majority? Not to mention, who are these many? Haven't seen anyone dismiss even the likes of hope not hate, searchlight nor the numerous academics who've tried to understand the EDL as fascist.

2) is massive whataboutery

5) contains an untruth as tr will be out in under a year, nine months or thereabouts. Not sure who is happy with the status quo, can't be many people anyway. But it doesn't strike me as a truth.

So you're left with 3) and 4) and I'm not too sure about 4).

 

[FridgeMagnet]

4 has been talked about upthread and is basically indefensible as far as I’m concerned. Even my more racist relatives have gone quiet when I’ve said “oh yes that famously politically correct institution the police, too concerned about offending Muslims, sure they were”.

3 is true but pretty uncontroversial and has been said by lots of people who haven’t also spent the rest of their articles saying how TR is right.