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Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

I dunno about anyone else but this is very uncomfortable, it's like Germany in 30's only now we have a new religion/race to bash.
UK is becoming a very dark and racist environment and the far right is becoming more and more vocal.
I don't like it at all.......
 
jusali said:
I dunno about anyone else but this is very uncomfortable, it's like Germany in 30's only now we have a new religion/race to bash.
UK is becoming a very dark and racist environment and the far right is becoming more and more vocal.
I don't like it at all.......
Click to expand...

It's certainly unpleasant, from what friends tell me, even in the last 15 months since I been away but that's quite a comparison to make.

There's anger and scapegoating a minority, no doubt. But there's also a majority of decent people standing up to the shit that's happening. Maybe it's more like the 70s with the National Front and all those tossers?
 
RD2003 said:
Calm down. Jesus.
Click to expand...
I don't think jusali's point was so hysterical as to warrant that response.

I imagine quite a lot of people were going around in 1920s Germany saying "FFS, it's only a bit of a nutter, and he does at least get the trains running on time. Calm down. Jesus."

Which is not to say that we're about to enter the UK equivalent of the Third Reich, but we've gone quite a long way down a rather nasty road by people dismissing Trumpism and the rise of the far right...who's to say where it might end if people don't start getting a bit aerated about it?
 
jusali said:
I dunno about anyone else but this is very uncomfortable, it's like Germany in 30's only now we have a new religion/race to bash.
UK is becoming a very dark and racist environment and the far right is becoming more and more vocal.
I don't like it at all.......
Click to expand...
yeh. the germany in the 1930s thing's something of a cliche now. not to mention that we've not had things like the vast unemployment germany had in the 1930s, we don't have a government - like the final administrations of the weimar regime - governing by decree, we don't have a party like the nsdap waiting in the wings and doing increasingly well electorally etc etc etc ad nauseam. i've yet to see the banners declaring that the muslims are our misfortune etc. this is a new situation and auld tawdry analogies which serve more to obscure than illuminate aren't helpful.
 
existentialist said:
I don't think jusali's point was so hysterical as to warrant that response.

I imagine quite a lot of people were going around in 1920s Germany saying "FFS, it's only a bit of a nutter, and he does at least get the trains running on time. Calm down. Jesus."

Which is not to say that we're about to enter the UK equivalent of the Third Reich, but we've gone quite a long way down a rather nasty road by people dismissing Trumpism and the rise of the far right...who's to say where it might end if people don't start getting a bit aerated about it?
Click to expand...
People have been 'aerated' to fuck since the morning it became clear Trump had won. Fourth Reich no nearer yet.
 
existentialist said:
I don't think jusali's point was so hysterical as to warrant that response.

I imagine quite a lot of people were going around in 1920s Germany saying "FFS, it's only a bit of a nutter, and he does at least get the trains running on time. Calm down. Jesus."

Which is not to say that we're about to enter the UK equivalent of the Third Reich, but we've gone quite a long way down a rather nasty road by people dismissing Trumpism and the rise of the far right...who's to say where it might end if people don't start getting a bit aerated about it?
Click to expand...
quite. but what about people in the 1930s in germany?
 
jusali said:
I dunno about anyone else but this is very uncomfortable, it's like Germany in 30's only now we have a new religion/race to bash.
UK is becoming a very dark and racist environment and the far right is becoming more and more vocal.
I don't like it at all.......
Click to expand...
the day after derek beackon was elected in 1993 i went down the way and got a copy of the first volume of noakes' collection of documents about the nazis, about the rise of the nazis. in retrospect i think my desire to see how any attempt to replicate the 1920s rise of the nsdap might be countered was somewhat hysterical. but i found nothing in the book, nor in other books about the nazis and their road to power, which has helped me understand how to better oppose the far right in a 1990s (or 2000s or 2010s) context in the uk. the history of fascism in this country is really rather different from that in germany or italy in the interwar years and so comparisons to a period before the calamity of the second world war in another country where the political context was vastly different don't help. we are not going to become a national socialist country under the likes of nigel farage or any of the panoply of would-be fuhrers. while i understand and appreciate your concern, i suggest you're over-egging this particular pudding.
 
Pickman's model said:
yeh. the germany in the 1930s thing's something of a cliche now. not to mention that we've not had things like the vast unemployment germany had in the 1930s, we don't have a government - like the final administrations of the weimar regime - governing by decree, we don't have a party like the nsdap waiting in the wings and doing increasingly well electorally etc etc etc ad nauseam. i've yet to see the banners declaring that the muslims are our misfortune etc. this is a new situation and auld tawdry analogies which serve more to obscure than illuminate aren't helpful.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the history lesson, maybe 1930's Germany was a bit much of a generalisation. Too easy to see patterns that aren't quite as clear as they first appear perhaps. Now gotta walk back to the boat on the lake, the disciples are waiting!
 
I think that there's nothing wrong with being worried about what's happening. But comparisons to the rise of nazis is quite a leap.

That said, there were a lot of cunts about then and there's a lot about now, so I can understand concerns.
 
I suppose it's not so much about comparisons, as in saying "we are going down the same road as Germany did", as looking at what might be parallels.

I find it worrying, for example, that, in setting themselves such a high bar for controlling immigration, the Tories (and, to an extent, new Labour before them) have succeeded in enacting legislation that was so toxic, particularly to identifiable racial groupings, that they're now having to face the prospect of dismantling it. Which I dare say they will, but only half-heartedly - note Javid's "no safe space for terrorists" face-saving bluster today.

And the problem is that, when governments set themselves unrealistic targets and approaches for controlling immigration, they start to make the wilder rantings of the far right, and people like Tommy Robinson, look mainstream.

Similarly, when they eviscerate the machinery of state that deals with policing, social services, child protection, healthcare, etc., etc., to the extent that they have, they make it harder for victims (particularly those in less socially charming positions) to access help, and easier for those who would perpetrate crimes against them. Which, again, provides lots of handy fuel for the fires that the likes of TR are only to happy to fan.

I imagine that many Tories would recoil in horror at the notion that what they are doing is fostering the rise of racism and discrimination, but at the same time would continue to argue that they have to do it in order to achieve their (to them) perfectly laudable aims, and the ones they'd claim they were voted in to achieve.-
 
Fear mongering about "them" abusing "our" women is a sure fire way of whipping up a hate campaign against any group you wish to demonize (the lozells riot in 2005 between caribbean and south asian communities was sparked by exactly this sort of shit stirring - Lozells 2005: Race, rumours and rioting ).
Its plays straight into the macho self image of "defending your womenfolk" - providing a moral justification for wanner be hardmen to do the self-righteous aggro thing, whilst chiming with pre-existing prejudices. Yaxley-Lennon is playing this for all it worth - and with a worrying degree of success. If you oppose this view - well then you are are soft on islamic (i.e "paki") nonces raping our girls.
And yes - it is very worrying and yes it is straight out of the goebbels playbook. There are many people out there who are not fash but will say stuff like "well - i definitely think he has a point" and "hes is being silenced for pointing out the truth" . His imprisonment his going to played for all its worth - and the real reasons for it will be buried behind a shit storm of social media generated bullshit.
Im sure that's exactly what YL was expecting when he took his web cam to leeds crown court - although he may have been surprised by the rapidity with which he was sentenced and the amount of time he now has on his hands.
Many aspects of his arrest and charging have played straight into the hands of the far right paranoir merchants - they should have seen this coming and maybe remanded him on bail until after the grooming court cases were dealt with and then thrown the book at him.
How to counter it? I think focusing on the racist motives behind the far rights colonisation of this issue - the fact they have nonces within their own ranks, the fact that they are not remotely interested in any other areas of child protection or sexual assault and the fact that Yaxley Lennon is undermining court cases against nonces as a racist publicity stunt.
 
existentialist said:
And the problem is that, when governments set themselves unrealistic targets and approaches for controlling immigration, they start to make the wilder rantings of the far right, and people like Tommy Robinson, look mainstream.
Click to expand...
much of the reason things like a tougher immigration policy were enacted by nl, the coalition and the current shower of shite was an attempt to prevent votes being lost to the bnp and ukip.
 
Latest TR related post from my #1 FB loon


“To those who believe the Psy-op that is the arrest of Robinson, I would just say, he is a self proclaimed Zionist. And what is their motto? By deception thou will do war.

None of this is new, its old hat and for your information,I remind you of the Book, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, translated in 1897.
Section XV111 Arrest of Opponents.
" When it becomes necessary for us to strengthen the strict measures of secret defense ( the most fatal poison for the prestige of authority) we shall arrange a simulation of disorders or some manifestation of discontents finding expression through the COOPERATION of good speakers.
Round these speakers will assemble all who are sympathetic to his utterances. This will give the pretext for domiciliary prerequisites and surveillance on the part of our servants from the number of Goyim police".
You are being played like a fiddle, once again.”
 
Section XV111? :D:facepalm:
I've just pulled out my copy and it doest even have sections, just y'know the 24 protocols.
 
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