The Tuts make dubious allegations after Brixton Windmill gig

[Pickman's model]

Look, Seamus is being accused of being racist by people who spent the first few pages of this thread accusing us of being sexist. Or 'playing the sexism card' as was said on twitter. Was the racism card played too?

the fucking full deck was used.

 

[snowy_again]

you have never seen me go into the loo at the windmill and decant a beer into a pint glass.

Sherry?

 

[Pickman's model]

Sherry?

nah, i don't drink.

 

[snowy_again]

What about an energy drink of a cup of herbal tea?

 

[RubyToogood]

i think it's because calls on twitter etc for a boycott, and throwing around accusations of racism, could have an actual real life effect on the venue, people's jobs etc.

And let's face it, if they hadn't had the idea of turning it into a great music venue, as a run down estate pub on a side street out of the town centre, that pub would probably be boarded up by now.

 

[Pickman's model]

Read the whole thread, the rider situation has been covered, as has the late arrival of the band, meaning they pretty much started setting up as soon as they were in the venue.

yeh vodka out and shot glasses full as soon as they were in the pub


There are liquorless souls that follow paths
Where whiskey never ran --
Let me live in a bar by the side of the road
And drink from the old beer can.

Let me live in a bar by the side of the road
Where the race of man goes dry,
The men who are "drys" and the men who are "wets"
(But none are so "wet" as I.)

I see from the bar by the side of the road,
A land with a droutht accurst;
And men who press on with the ardour of beer,
And men who are faint with thirst.

I know there are bars in Old Mexico,
And schooners of glorious height.
That the booze splashes on through the long afternoon,
And floods through the gutters of night.

But still I take gin when the travelers take gin
And Scotch with the whiskey man,
Nor ever refuse a thirsty soul
A swig from my old beer can.

For why should I praise Prohibition's restraints,
Or love the revenue man?
Let me live in a bar by the side of the road
And drink from the old beer can!

 

[el-ahrairah]

Read the whole thread, the rider situation has been covered, as has the late arrival of the band, meaning they pretty much started setting up as soon as they were in the venue.

Rider: "There was no rider as I prefer to pay the bands decent money than spend it on cheap booze. If I was to provide a rider, I'd have less money to pay the bands".

If you think think in any way makes the band's behaviour reasonable you're a fucking oddball.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I download music illegally

I don't think I would ever flow bootleg metallic albums in front of lars ulric

If I did and he kicked my head in although he wouldn't be justified

Y'know

 

[cks]

I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.
No-one comes out of a scuffle like this looking good, but there's a reason our natural instinct is to ask 'who started it?' and I hope we can all agree that breaking a rule is not on the same moral plain as verbal abuse and physical confrontation.
She had alcohol she shouldn't have had, and the landlord had every right to ask her to leave, or better still, ask the promoter to have a word. However, the landlord was also drinking and possibly his judgement was impaired, I don't know. What I do know is that he didn't ask her anything, or speak to the promoter - what he did was steam in swearing at her, which she responded to in kind. He then tried to grab her, and it kicked off. She may well have pissed him off by her actions, but the incident itself was entirely his fault because of the way he handled it. Would she have gone quietly? I don't see why not, but we'll never know, will we? No-one spoke to her in a reasonable and professional manner.
Now, I don't know the man, and for all I know he might be a lovely bloke 99.99% of the time or unless his sore points are pushed, but the point here is that it was his job to handle the situation, which he did incredibly badly, and things escalated from there.
As an observer attempting to be neutral, I have to admit I didn't see everything, but I did see the crowd outside the pub being completely calm, certainly not pissed (this was only 9pm) and trying to reason with the management, whereas the lads on the door were drunk, lary and sexist to a man.

In my experience a certain type of bloke has a problem with women asserting themselves, let alone defending themselves, and I think there's an element of that here, both from what I witnessed last night, and a lot of comments on this forum. Some people could also do with watching Jodie Foster in The Accused if you think it's ok to use a woman's 'history' and behaviour against her to justify violence. Good to know decades of feminist thought have affected you all so deeply.

I won't be going back to the Windmill. Which I'm sure they're gutted about.

 

[ViolentPanda]

But you misinterpreted it. She is sick, as I am, for giving a venue money following the actions that we witnessed. Both me and Simona have given that bar, on average, around £20 at least per visit to the Windmill on the bar and it is horrible to know that the money hasn't gone to a good cause but to a not only sexist and racist but from his attempt to punch me just all round violent thug.

I was quoted by a different member. I retract my comments. I still find it strange that Simona's personal details matter whereas mine do not when they are being quoted as if her comments and opinions have less credibility.

Mate, you don't "give" any boozer money, you swap your cash for their products. That's capitalism, not a bleeding "good cause".

 

[TrevOddBox]

Rider: "There was no rider as I prefer to pay the bands decent money than spend it on cheap booze. If I was to provide a rider, I'd have less money to pay the bands".

If you think think in any way makes the band's behaviour reasonable you're a fucking oddball.

Where did I say it makes anything ok? The singer was out of order for sneaking in the booze (wish I'd spotted it, and could have prevented this whole thing kicking off) and what happened afterwards was, too. I was merely pointing out what the rider situation was to someone who'd already stated they'd not read the whole thread.

 

[Citizen66]

I download music illegally

I don't think I would ever flow bootleg metallic albums in front of lars ulric

If I did and he kicked my head in although he wouldn't be justified

Y'know

I think some bands do do it, and get away with it.

But they tend to be selling 15,000+ tickets; not getting some of their mates along to a pub who they then encourage to go elsewhere after their set. It's really poor form.

 

[ddraig]

I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.
No-one comes out of a scuffle like this looking good, but there's a reason our natural instinct is to ask 'who started it?' and I hope we can all agree that breaking a rule is not on the same moral plain as verbal abuse and physical confrontation.
She had alcohol she shouldn't have had, and the landlord had every right to ask her to leave, or better still, ask the promoter to have a word. However, the landlord was also drinking and possibly his judgement was impaired, I don't know. What I do know is that he didn't ask her anything, or speak to the promoter - what he did was steam in swearing at her, which she responded to in kind. He then tried to grab her, and it kicked off. She may well have pissed him off by her actions, but the incident itself was entirely his fault because of the way he handled it. Would she have gone quietly? I don't see why not, but we'll never know, will we? No-one spoke to her in a reasonable and professional manner.
Now, I don't know the man, and for all I know he might be a lovely bloke 99.99% of the time or unless his sore points are pushed, but the point here is that it was his job to handle the situation, which he did incredibly badly, and things escalated from there.
As an observer attempting to be neutral, I have to admit I didn't see everything, but I did see the crowd outside the pub being completely calm, certainly not pissed (this was only 9pm) and trying to reason with the management, whereas the lads on the door were drunk, lary and sexist to a man.

In my experience a certain type of bloke has a problem with women asserting themselves, let alone defending themselves, and I think there's an element of that here, both from what I witnessed last night, and a lot of comments on this forum. Some people could also do with watching Jodie Foster in The Accused if you think it's ok to use a woman's 'history' and behaviour against her to justify violence. Good to know decades of feminist thought have affected you all so deeply.

I won't be going back to the Windmill. Which I'm sure they're gutted about.

nice try but seriously fuck off with generalising and making assumptions about this forum and its posters when you've just got here and probably only read this thread

 

[Badgers]

I have seen The Accused. It has no relevance whatsoever to this thread or the (various reports of the) incident.

 

[Pickman's model]

I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.
No-one comes out of a scuffle like this looking good, but there's a reason our natural instinct is to ask 'who started it?' and I hope we can all agree that breaking a rule is not on the same moral plain as verbal abuse and physical confrontation.
She had alcohol she shouldn't have had, and the landlord had every right to ask her to leave, or better still, ask the promoter to have a word. However, the landlord was also drinking and possibly his judgement was impaired, I don't know. What I do know is that he didn't ask her anything, or speak to the promoter - what he did was steam in swearing at her, which she responded to in kind. He then tried to grab her, and it kicked off. She may well have pissed him off by her actions, but the incident itself was entirely his fault because of the way he handled it. Would she have gone quietly? I don't see why not, but we'll never know, will we? No-one spoke to her in a reasonable and professional manner.
Now, I don't know the man, and for all I know he might be a lovely bloke 99.99% of the time or unless his sore points are pushed, but the point here is that it was his job to handle the situation, which he did incredibly badly, and things escalated from there.
As an observer attempting to be neutral, I have to admit I didn't see everything, but I did see the crowd outside the pub being completely calm, certainly not pissed (this was only 9pm) and trying to reason with the management, whereas the lads on the door were drunk, lary and sexist to a man.

In my experience a certain type of bloke has a problem with women asserting themselves, let alone defending themselves, and I think there's an element of that here, both from what I witnessed last night, and a lot of comments on this forum. Some people could also do with watching Jodie Foster in The Accused if you think it's ok to use a woman's 'history' and behaviour against her to justify violence. Good to know decades of feminist thought have affected you all so deeply.

I won't be going back to the Windmill. Which I'm sure they're gutted about.

it's posts like this which make me think about taking up drinking again and travelling to the other side of london to a pub i haven't been to in something like eight years.

 

[editor]

I'd be livid if I paid a band to play and they used the opportunity to suggest my customers leave. Whether I'd have the row there and then, ideally not, but I'd never book them again.

The venue doesn't pay them. The bands take the money on the door.

 

[Pickman's model]

I have seen The Accused. It has no relevance whatsoever to this thread or the (various reports of the) incident.

why let that get in the way?

 

[RaverDrew]

Being female does not automatically make one a feminist.

Getting tanked up, telling the landlord to fuck off when he catches you drinking smuggled in booze, and throwing punches at the guy when he asks you to leave are not acts of feminism.

 

[ViolentPanda]

BEEN MASSIVELY EDITED!

Well of course I cannot comment. I understand your perspective but so much testimony has now been given and it seems a bit off to simply declare that these claims are "dubious". In my own blog I have tried to be as clear and as objective as possible I have been critical of both sides and I would argue that the interpretation can be seen as having a degree of validity.

Shows have already been cancelled. This is a serious allegation. However, I admit that at this point that is all it is, officially, and you can't be expected to choose sides. I have found this forum is finding itself overly in favour of the venue, perhaps because of the sexism that has been argued here and on twitter and perhaps because it is happening in their backyard at somewhere they truly love. As I did.

I also find it strange that whilst everyone is fine to have-a-go at Nadia and comment on those events when it comes to Seamus randomly attempting to attack me unprovoked apart from me telling him I'm not giving him anymore money it has simply been glazed over. Partially I feel that this reaction is that if you were to respond to it the whole defense of the venue has to go out of the window.

Me and Tim the booker, who is a nice bloke who I have nothing against, has said he will pass my concerns on to Seamus with a full response to follow which I will publish here, twitter and on my blog if it is significant. I sincerely hope that a conclusion can be reached but I am not banking on it.

Unfortunately for the general public in general, and pub-goers in particular, boozers are pretty much the fiefdom of their landlords/owners, and as long as his actions aren't criminal, Seamus, like other landlords, can be as big a cunt as he likes. Personally, I hope anyone who felt that they were assaulted takes it further. Arsehole landlords were a bane of my younger existence.

 

[Citizen66]

I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.
No-one comes out of a scuffle like this looking good, but there's a reason our natural instinct is to ask 'who started it?' and I hope we can all agree that breaking a rule is not on the same moral plain as verbal abuse and physical confrontation.
She had alcohol she shouldn't have had, and the landlord had every right to ask her to leave, or better still, ask the promoter to have a word. However, the landlord was also drinking and possibly his judgement was impaired, I don't know. What I do know is that he didn't ask her anything, or speak to the promoter - what he did was steam in swearing at her, which she responded to in kind. He then tried to grab her, and it kicked off. She may well have pissed him off by her actions, but the incident itself was entirely his fault because of the way he handled it. Would she have gone quietly? I don't see why not, but we'll never know, will we? No-one spoke to her in a reasonable and professional manner.
Now, I don't know the man, and for all I know he might be a lovely bloke 99.99% of the time or unless his sore points are pushed, but the point here is that it was his job to handle the situation, which he did incredibly badly, and things escalated from there.
As an observer attempting to be neutral, I have to admit I didn't see everything, but I did see the crowd outside the pub being completely calm, certainly not pissed (this was only 9pm) and trying to reason with the management, whereas the lads on the door were drunk, lary and sexist to a man.

In my experience a certain type of bloke has a problem with women asserting themselves, let alone defending themselves, and I think there's an element of that here, both from what I witnessed last night, and a lot of comments on this forum. Some people could also do with watching Jodie Foster in The Accused if you think it's ok to use a woman's 'history' and behaviour against her to justify violence. Good to know decades of feminist thought have affected you all so deeply.

I won't be going back to the Windmill. Which I'm sure they're gutted about.

There's lots of women posting on this thread (I can think of at least ten, some of whom are active feminists) so i don't think we need you coming along and lecturing everyone that they have some kind of problem with women. The known facts are that she took the piss. The rest are accusations which she 'doesn't want the hassle' of reporting. TBH I lost sympathy when everyone was accused of being sexist (the women here too!) and I seriously think you and your mates are being liberal with the truth but can't back down now without losing face.

 

[paolo]

The venue doesn't pay them. The bands take the money on the door.

Ah ok. What happens on the free nights, out of interest?

 

[Badgers]

why let that get in the way?

Don't oppress me

 

[TrevOddBox]

Ah ok. What happens on the free nights, out of interest?

Varies from venue to venue, some don't pay, some give a cut of the bar spend.

 

[paolo]

Varies from venue to venue, some don't pay, some give a cut of the bar spend.

Was meaning specifically at the Windmill.

(I think they have a page about their policy - *goes to look it up*)

 

[twistedAM]

Posted @ www.facebook.com/windmillbrixton

About last night…..
I wasn’t in the main room at the time of the incident last night that primarily involved Seamus, the landlord of the Windmill and Nadia from The Tuts.
I’ve spent most of the day reading stuff and listening to people who have given me both sides of the story. The Tuts’ have also released a blog post that you can read here: http://thetuts.tumblr.com/post/26555827192/last-night-at-the-windmill-brixton
The bit about this that particularly saddens me is the reference to racial abuse. I asked around about this a lot and quizzed Seamus and he is adamant that he never did that, and actually sounded very surprised as he didn’t know what ethnic origin Nadia was of.
As I said I wasn’t in the room but have spoken to Seamus whose side of the story is quite different from Nadia’s in that she was asked not to drink from a bottle of vodka in the venue a number of times and then verbals got exchanged. She was asked to leave and then others from both sides, I think, got involved. She apparently refused. Some say the expulsion was excessive but on the other hand the only punches reportedly thrown were by Nadia on Seamus and a customer who was trying to help him out.
As the booker/venue promoter of the venue, I think enough know me to vouch for me and if Nadia, any of the band or her friends want to open further dialogue they can contact me and I’ll listen.

Tim

 

[cks]

'fuck off with generalising and making assumptions about this forum and its posters when you've just got here and probably only read this thread'
Not particularly interested in your forum, I came here to make a point; that doesn't invalidate my point.
Haven't made any assumptions or generalisations about anything or anyone, my comments are based on the opinions in this thread, the gist of which are basically 'she was asking for it, what did she expect?'
I'm sorry if the film reference has confused or annoyed anyone but the point I'm making really isn't difficult, and I think my post was actually pretty reasonable considering I was there and could easily have got all emotional like a lot of people who weren't there seem to have done..

 

[ViolentPanda]

FROM FACEBOOK -

Simona Grace Irish​

​

14 hours ago​

from now on i am never stepping foot in the Brixton Windmill again. Seriously BOYCOTT IT. Old man landlord assaulted lead singer of The Tuts, pulled her hair and about 5 people had to get him off her. He then used RACIST TERMINOLOGY. Police had to be called. Been to some great gigs there in the past but now I can't let my money go to a racist who assaults women.​

Bit ageist, that.

 

[Badgers]

'fuck off with generalising and making assumptions about this forum and its posters when you've just got here and probably only read this thread'
Not particularly interested in your forum, I came here to make a point; that doesn't invalidate my point.
Haven't made any assumptions or generalisations about anything or anyone, my comments are based on the opinions in this thread, the gist of which are basically 'she was asking for it, what did she expect?'
I'm sorry if the film reference has confused or annoyed anyone but the point I'm making really isn't difficult, and I think my post was actually pretty reasonable considering I was there and could easily have got all emotional like a lot of people who weren't there seem to have done..

Read the thread properly from the start, and stop being a shit stirring kid please.

 

[colacubes]

Posted @ www.facebook.com/windmillbrixton

About last night…..
I wasn’t in the main room at the time of the incident last night that primarily involved Seamus, the landlord of the Windmill and Nadia from The Tuts.
I’ve spent most of the day reading stuff and listening to people who have given me both sides of the story. The Tuts’ have also released a blog post that you can read here: http://thetuts.tumblr.com/post/26555827192/last-night-at-the-windmill-brixton
The bit about this that particularly saddens me is the reference to racial abuse. I asked around about this a lot and quizzed Seamus and he is adamant that he never did that, and actually sounded very surprised as he didn’t know what ethnic origin Nadia was of.
As I said I wasn’t in the room but have spoken to Seamus whose side of the story is quite different from Nadia’s in that she was asked not to drink from a bottle of vodka in the venue a number of times and then verbals got exchanged. She was asked to leave and then others from both sides, I think, got involved. She apparently refused. Some say the expulsion was excessive but on the other hand the only punches reportedly thrown were by Nadia on Seamus and a customer who was trying to help him out.
As the booker/venue promoter of the venue, I think enough know me to vouch for me and if Nadia, any of the band or her friends want to open further dialogue they can contact me and I’ll listen.

Tim

Well done for posting that mate. Must be a shitty thing to be in the middle of

 

[SW9]

SOLIDARITY FOR THE WINDMILL!!!!!!!