The Tuts make dubious allegations after Brixton Windmill gig

[Citizen66]

The Tuts and their fans sound like a right bunch of wankers, personally I'll be boycotting any gig where they're on the bill.

Assuming any venues will agree to have them when they learn they bring their own drinks in.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

What I'm amazed about is that there's no video footage.

People take videos of everything nowadays

 

[el-ahrairah]

when i was a kid i'd try and sneak booze in all sorts of places. if i was caught, i got thrown out. if i refused to go, the bouncers or bar staff removed me. if i fought back, i'd be removed harder. sometimes people were nice about it, other times i got a few bruises. you live and learn.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

All I told him was that because he attacked a woman I was not going to go to his venue or buy drinks from him again. His reaction was to man-handle me and attempt to punch me. Charmer. Fully justified though right guys?

Not at all

 

[RaverDrew]

when i was a kid i'd try and sneak booze in all sorts of places. if i was caught, i got thrown out. if i refused to go, the bouncers or bar staff removed me. if i fought back, i'd be removed harder. sometimes people were nice about it, other times i got a few bruises. you live and learn.

This

 

[Citizen66]

It's one thing taking the piss by smuggling booze into a pub. It's another level of taking the piss when smuggling booze in a pub and then refusing to go when caught and thus needlessly escalating the situation. But it's seriously beyond taking the piss if you smuggle booze into a pub, refuse to go when asked and then start a fucking campaign trying to get everyone to boycott the venue over an altercation WHICH YOU CAUSED!

 

[Rushy]

How am I justifying theft? She brought [the bottle of vodka] with her own money. She personally would not have brought a whole bottle of Vodka from the venue for her own consumption so they lost around £4/5/6 quid of potential drinks. Make up any figure which you think fits.

Did you present this wisdom to Seamus on the night?

I don't really think rational thinking is my job. Nor is it my job to tell someone who I have no association with about something I have no association with.

Sorry. I was being a little sarcastic and I apprecaite that is not always obvious online. What I meant was that your argument is childishly naive and that if you had presented it to him on the night I can see why he might have taken such a dislike to you - particularly since The Windmill is his livelihood. I personally would not have swung at you. But I might have given it some consideration.

 

[cesare]

It's one thing taking the piss by smuggling booze into a pub. It's another level of taking the piss when smuggling booze in a pub and then refusing to go and thus needlessly escalating the situation. But it's seriously beyond taking the piss if you smuggle booze into a pub, refuse to go when asked and then start a fucking campaign trying to get everyone to boycott the venue over an altercation WHICH YOU CAUSED!

Don't forget:

....Throughout The Tuts set Nadia, from the band, had clearly had a lot to drink, she offered members of the audience a sip of her vodka Smirnoff bottle and,most hilariously, asked one my friends his ethnic origin to which her response was “nice”. At this point nothing happened, the vodka remained on the stage and the band continued their set.

 

[el-ahrairah]

What I'm amazed about is that there's no video footage.

People take videos of everything nowadays

actually that's really true. i'm surprised as well.

 

[twistedAM]

so the racism bit: did it happen?

Seamus says no.

 

[snowy_again]

I think what's more upsetting now, is that the tuts account of this is now being picked up by other people / bloggers / promoters who I know and is being repeated as the whole, factual account of the events.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just to be quite clear this isn't the first time the Windmill has got in trouble because of Seamus. Both Allo' Darlin, now playing the KCLU in September and sell out most of their shows, have boycotted the venue due to an incident with him. There are also reports that MJ Hibbett, also known to indiepop fans, has a similar boycott towards to venue for reasons which I cannot claim to know.

Furthermore, TO REPEAT MYSELF ONCE AGAIN Nadia's history, again if you want to claim she had it coming (which I wouldn't), doesn't really matter when you consider Seamus lashed out at other people who have no association with herself or her band or violence.

frankly i'd boycott any band which played kcl(s)u

 

[Badgers]

I think what's more upsetting now, is that the tuts account of this is now being picked up by other people / bloggers / promoters who I know and is being repeated as the whole, factual account of the events.

Which one of their accounts?

 

[kittyP]

I'd be livid if I paid a band to play and they used the opportunity to suggest my customers leave. Whether I'd have the row there and then, ideally not, but I'd never book them again.

I would most probably have a (verbal) pop at them too.
And people that know me know that that is not usually my character.

This is sounding more and more like a bunch of people taking the piss out of and pushing a venue in a very childish manner.

And no, before anyone starts, I am in no way saying that assault or racism is ok at all.

 

[Pickman's model]

Once again, the details of what happened here are sketchy but unpleasant none-the-less (see previous posts). But I am thoroughly uncomfortable with attempts to turn this into a race and gender motivated incident.

At risk of sounding a little pedantic, is Simona (SimSimSimSimSim on U75) ageist because she describes Seamus as "Old man landlord" or is she a non-ageist who loves all of our grans but in the heat of the moment is thoughtlessly using the irrelevant word "old" in order to insult someone (who really isn't an old man). I'm not particularly riled by the "old man" gibe itself but by the poster's self righteous attempts to turn this incident into a race and gender motivated attack (on the grounds that after the event the landlord may or may not have said 'Fuck off Paki' and the other party was female) whilst in the same breath being similarly carelessly discriminatory against another group of people. Just because ageism isn't as high profile discriminating as other 'isms' does not mean it is not often as just as hurtful and damaging.

I'm sure it was inadvertent but "being in the heat of the moment" does not make discriminatory comments ok. A little self awareness of one's own's imperfections might help with understanding and relating to the behaviour others and clam things down.

i haven't read all through this thread. but it strikes me that someone saying 'fuck off paki' in front of cops - even brixton cops - is probably asking for trouble. what i wonder is, was PERKIE nearby and vocal at the time? because without being there or knowing precisely what happened, it seems to me more likely he said 'fuck off perkie', because if he had any history of racism he'd be operating a pub in very much the wrong area.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Seamus says no.

Whether he said it or not, it wouldn't be good for business if he said yes

 

[Citizen66]

I think what's more upsetting now, is that the tuts account of this is now being picked up by other people / bloggers / promoters who I know and is being repeated as the whole, factual account of the events.

A lie can be halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on...

 

[Pickman's model]

A lie can be halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on...

hold up while i do up the laces

 

[Citizen66]

hold up while i do up the laces

It needs to invest in some adequate slip ons.

 

[Pickman's model]

How am I justifying theft? She brought it with her own money. She personally would not have brought a whole bottle of Vodka from the venue for her own consumption so they lost around £4/5/6 quid of potential drinks. Make up any figure which you think fits.

Everyone wouldn't choose to behave like that because we have established norms and customs for those types of situations you are just playing devils advocate. I am sure most people on this forum have previously sneaked something they know they haven't into a music venue // bar // club especially when they are young and poor, I bloody well know I have, and they still buy plenty of drinks on other occasions or even on the same occasion.

Taking outsider drinks from people in a professional manner without resorting to nearly pulling someones hair out should be a skill which you gain through owning a pub // music venue over many years and dealing with difficult people which he must have to do weekly.

there's an established practice whereby bands and venues come to an arrangement beforehand about drinks. why didn't this band talk to the landlord before waving brought in drink round the pub? i would have thought that the landlord would be angrier about the example set than the £5/£10 not in his till.

 

[Badgers]

A lie can be halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on...

Or (for balance) a carefully edited version of the truth.

 

[Pickman's model]

Or (for balance) a carefully edited version of the truth.

which truth?

 

[Rushy]

i haven't read all through this thread. but it strikes me that someone saying 'fuck off paki' in front of cops - even brixton cops - is probably asking for trouble. what i wonder is, was PERKIE nearby and vocal at the time? because without being there or knowing precisely what happened, it seems to me more likely he said 'fuck off perkie', because if he had any history of racism he'd be operating a pub in very much the wrong area.

I agree - what bothers me it that this is being presented as a racially motivated incident whereas it appears to be an incident in which a landlord badly mismanaged the removal of drunk and aggressive punter. Some time after which, it is alleged that he made that remark in front of police (which he apparently denies and which no one is prepared to press charges for but which, if true, no one is condoning).

 

[Pickman's model]

I agree - what bothers me it that this is being presented as a racially motivated incident whereas it appears to be an incident in which a landlord badly mismanaged the removal of drunk and aggressive punter. Some time after which, it is alleged that he made that remark in front of police (which he apparently denies and which no one is prepared to press charges for but which, if true, no one is condoning).

i wouldn't be surprised if the landlord was the soberest person there and half the problem is people getting together for a drink/smoke later and concocting a new truth for themselves.

 

[TrevOddBox]

there's an established practice whereby bands and venues come to an arrangement beforehand about drinks. why didn't this band talk to the landlord before waving brought in drink round the pub? i would have thought that the landlord would be angrier about the example set than the £5/£10 not in his till.

Read the whole thread, the rider situation has been covered, as has the late arrival of the band, meaning they pretty much started setting up as soon as they were in the venue.

 

[snowy_again]

there's an established practice whereby bands and venues come to an arrangement beforehand about drinks. why didn't this band talk to the landlord before waving brought in drink round the pub? i would have thought that the landlord would be angrier about the example set than the £5/£10 not in his till.

Thing is that at the Windmill the door and the band liaison is done by the promoter not the landlord. If the line up won't bring in enough to cover costs (sound person,door, flyers, back line etc.) then the promoter either dips into their profits to give them a rider (usual drinks tokens at the Windmill isn't it?) or you get a tenner and then pointed towards the co-op for some cans to be drunk in the park under the windmill. Or, as I've seem you go into the old disabled loo / broom cupboard that haunts Mrs Magpie to this very day, and decant a beer into a pint glass.

The band would have negotiated rider / payment with the promoter in advance. Tuts singer appears to have arrived drinking, and then carried on drinking.

The 'like a female libertines' review on their website sums it up - hormones and booze and a bit of controversy causes a reaction and then all of a sudden its everyone else's fault.

All rights and no responsibilities. Now where's my copy of the Daily Mail?

 

[Badgers]

which truth?

Not my sexist version sadly

 

[clandestino]

Seamus says no.

Then I think you guys need to issue a statement too, because the Tuts statement is being reprinted everywhere.

 

[Pickman's model]

Thing is that at the Windmill the door and the band liaison is done by the promoter not the landlord. If the line up won't bring in enough to cover costs (sound person,door, flyers, back line etc.) then the promoter either dips into their profits to give them a rider (usual drinks tokens at the Windmill isn't it?) or you get a tenner and then pointed towards the co-op for some cans to be drunk in the park under the windmill. Or, as I've seem you go into the old disabled loo / broom cupboard that haunts Mrs Magpie to this very day, and decant a beer into a pint glass.

The band would have negotiated rider / payment with the promoter in advance. Tuts singer appears to have arrived drinking, and then carried on drinking.

The 'like a female libertines' review on their website sums it up - hormones and booze and a bit of controversy causes a reaction and then all of a sudden its everyone else's fault.

All rights and no responsibilities. Now where's my copy of the Daily Mail?

you have never seen me go into the loo at the windmill and decant a beer into a pint glass.

 

[Citizen66]

Look, Seamus is being accused of being racist by people who spent the first few pages of this thread accusing everyone of being sexist. Or 'playing the sexism card' as was said on twitter. Was the racism card played too?