The Tuts make dubious allegations after Brixton Windmill gig

[rutabowa]

apparently only the band, their friends, and the police heard.

no reliable witnesses at all.

i know the band has reposted it i was was just curious who had actually heard it first hand as it is not clear at all.

 

[RadRadRad]

I wasn't defending anyone, just pointing something out.

I know. Just making clear it wasn't hearsay that's all.

 

[Rushy]

FROM FACEBOOK -

Simona Grace Irish​

​

14 hours ago​

from now on i am never stepping foot in the Brixton Windmill again. Seriously BOYCOTT IT. Old man landlord assaulted lead singer of The Tuts, pulled her hair and about 5 people had to get him off her. He then used RACIST TERMINOLOGY. Police had to be called. Been to some great gigs there in the past but now I can't let my money go to a racist who assaults women.​

Once again, the details of what happened here are sketchy but unpleasant none-the-less (see previous posts). But I am thoroughly uncomfortable with attempts to turn this into a race and gender motivated incident.

At risk of sounding a little pedantic, is Simona (SimSimSimSimSim on U75) ageist because she describes Seamus as "Old man landlord" or is she a non-ageist who loves all of our grans but in the heat of the moment is thoughtlessly using the irrelevant word "old" in order to insult someone (who really isn't an old man). I'm not particularly riled by the "old man" gibe itself but by the poster's self righteous attempts to turn this incident into a race and gender motivated attack (on the grounds that after the event the landlord may or may not have said 'Fuck off Paki' and the other party was female) whilst in the same breath being similarly carelessly discriminatory against another group of people. Just because ageism isn't as high profile discriminating as other 'isms' does not mean it is not often as just as hurtful and damaging.

I'm sure it was inadvertent but "being in the heat of the moment" does not make discriminatory comments ok. A little self awareness of one's own's imperfections might help with understanding and relating to the behaviour others and clam things down.

 

[Rushy]

Roof Dog does that with everyone, so don't think you're special.

Gutted.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

i think there is always going to be a bit of extra tension because of him being a grumpy irish pub landlord of the old school style in a venue which is 50% club

the pub to club transition means a culture clash for both sides.

my uncle is also irish pub landlord. can imagin him even letting half the bands i know in the pub in the first place

 

[Blagsta]

Hiya. Breaking it down:

- Taking an outside drink into a pub does not compare to physical violence. These things are on different scales. Surely this is obvious.
- the screenshots themselves are not what's weird. Taking the screenshots implies that you have an issue with the information given in them, but aren't willing to engage with their author yourselves. Why not? Is it because it makes you feel safer to poke fun at them away from Twitter? If you genuinely believe their content is invalid, why not point this out directly?
- it doesn't matter whether or not she 'sounds like an arsehole', physical violence is rarely (if ever) justifiable, this wasn't self-defence, and she is physically smaller and more vulnerable than him so it sure as hell wasn't in this case.
- the price of the drinks doesn't matter. Purchasing a drink for a higher price than £0.00 is tacitly supporting the venue and its owners. It's a symbolic condonement, as well as a financial one. I assume you all actually know this but are splitting hairs for whatever reason.

Several of the things said here make me think some of you want to present this as a simple overreaction. But if we as women (hell, if we as humans) don't feel safe within our own music/social scene (and several of us, including those who were present at the venue as well as those who have heard about it from witnesses, have said we do not) I think urging a boycott is a rational means of trying to protect ourselves and our friends.

If you get pissed on your own booze in a pub and refuse to leave when asked and act an arsehole, a physical throwing out of the pub is to be expected. I'm not condoning the alleged racism. However act like an arsehole and get treated like one. Not complicated is it.

 

[rutabowa]

If you get pissed on your own booze in a pub and refuse to leave when asked and act an arsehole, a physical throwing out of the pub is to be expected. I'm not condoning the alleged racism. However act like an arsehole and get treated like one. Not complicated is it.

you wouldn't have caught GG Allin complaining on twitter about the venue the next day, and he got actually injured every show.

 

[RaverDrew]

Once again, the details of what happened here are sketchy but unpleasant none-the-less (see previous posts). But I am thoroughly uncomfortable with attempts to turn this into a race and gender motivated incident.

At risk of sounding a little pedantic, is Simona (SimSimSimSimSim on U75) ageist because she describes Seamus as "Old man landlord" or is she a non-ageist who loves all of our grans but in the heat of the moment is thoughtlessly using the irrelevant word "old" in order to insult someone (who really isn't an old man). I'm not particularly riled by the "old man" gibe itself but by the poster's self righteous attempts to turn this incident into a race and gender motivated attack (on the grounds that after the event the landlord may or may not have said 'Fuck off Paki' and the other party was female) whilst in the same breath being similarly carelessly discriminatory against another group of people. Just because ageism isn't as high profile discriminating as other 'isms' does not mean it is not often as just as hurtful and damaging.

I'm sure it was inadvertent but "being in the heat of the moment" does not make discriminatory comments ok. A little self awareness of one's own's imperfections might help with understanding and relating to the behaviour others and clam things down.

No, no, no, the sexist part was posting up screenshots of someone's public twitter posts, without their consent.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

i got refused entry from a pub once because i wore shorts so was obviously insane

 

[el-ahrairah]

so we are no longer allowed to quote a woman, no matter what nor that the quotes were made in public?

 

[el-ahrairah]

i got refused entry from a pub once because i wore shorts so was obviously insane

it was about 40 below zero ffs.

 

[a bigoted woman]

it's never polite to grab a lady's screenshot

 

[paolo]

i got refused entry from a pub once because i wore shorts so was obviously insane

You *are* insanse though shippy

 

[Infinite Jest]

Edit: see you've discussed this subsequently...

Just to be quite clear this isn't the first time the Windmill has got in trouble because of Seamus... Allo' Darlin

What's the actual Allo' Darlin story? I keep seeing people talk about it (and Elizabeth called Seamus 'vile' on Twitter earlier) but I don't know what actually happened.

(by the way, thought your blog post was about the most level-headed thing I've read on this sad event...)

 

[Rushy]

(by the way, thought your blog post was about the most level-headed thing I've read on this sad event...)

Thanks.

 

[RadRadRad]

What's the actual Allo' Darlin story? I keep seeing people talk about it (and Elizabeth called Seamus 'vile' on Twitter earlier) but I don't know what actually happened.

(by the way, thought your blog post was about the most level-headed thing I've read on this sad event...)

Nice one, I tried to be as objective as possible which I know is impossible but I thought a credible and not clearly directly bias response was needed. The response on Anorakforum.com is also brilliant. Apparently she said that everyone should go to The Lovely Egg's show when their set was finished whilst on stage and Seamus threw a wobbly about his potential losses and somewhere in the mix Elizabeth got banned from the venue (I think this is the story anyway).

Interesting that this whole affair was his loss of about £3.50 because someone had smuggled in some vodka. It appears if you tell the bloke he is going to lose a quid he can't be trusted. Shouldn't tell him about the energy drink I smuggled in during the Oddbox Weekender.

 

[colacubes]

Nice one, I tried to be as objective as possible which I know is impossible but I thought a credible and not clearly directly bias response was needed. The response on Anorakforum.com is also brilliant. Apparently she said that everyone should go to The Lovely Egg's show when their set was finished whilst on stage and Seamus threw a wobbly about his potential losses and somewhere in the mix Elizabeth got banned from the venue (I think this is the story anyway).

Interesting that this whole affair was his loss of about £3.50 because someone had smuggled in some vodka. It appears if you tell the bloke he is going to lose a quid he can't be trusted. Shouldn't tell him about the energy drink I smuggled in during the Oddbox Weekender.

This does ring a bell as it was the night The Lovely Eggs played at Offline at The Albert (The Lovely Eggs are fucking amazing ). I can see why he might be a bit pissed off about that tbh. It's not really the done thing if you're playing at a venue to advise everyone to fuck off to another venue when you've finished playing That said not sure it warrants a barring or whatever.

 

[RadRadRad]

This does ring a bell as it was the night The Lovely Eggs played at Offline at The Albert (The Lovely Eggs are fucking amazing ). I can see why he might be a bit pissed off about that tbh. It's not really the done thing if you're playing at a venue to advise everyone to fuck off to another venue when you've finished playing That said not sure it warrants a barring or whatever.

Of course but most people know how to express that they didn't like something rationally, politely and professionally like any venue owner would be expected to do. When I am at work I know the limits of my role as worker and know what is and isn't acceptable.

 

[paolo]

I'd be livid if I paid a band to play and they used the opportunity to suggest my customers leave. Whether I'd have the row there and then, ideally not, but I'd never book them again.

 

[Citizen66]

No, no, no, the sexist part was posting up screenshots of someone's public twitter posts, without their consent.

What a load of old bollocks. Public words on the internet reappear elsewhere shocker. Deal with it.

 

[a bigoted woman]

Of course but most people know how to express that they didn't like something rationally, politely and professionally like any venue owner would be expected to do. When I am at work I know the limits of my role as worker and know what is and isn't acceptable.

whereas he acts as if he owns the bloody place.

 

[Orang Utan]

What a hullabaloo

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I noted that some people reading this thread were coming from Drowned In Sound so took and look.
Blimey, they've been spammed to fuck.

I just clicked on that, and now I have a real hankering for ZITHROMAX, [URL='http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/festivals/4357582']TADALAFIL and [URL='http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/festivals/4357580']SILDENAFIL, anyone know where I can get some? [/URL] [/URL]

 

[Orang Utan]

again, wasn't there - but is "using racist language" and "racial abuse" being mixed up here? both very bad, by the way, in case this is not clear. (and i'm not white, if that matters)

Is there a difference? I don't think so

 

[RadRadRad]

whereas he acts as if he owns the bloody place.

10/10. Top posting.

 

[Citizen66]

Interesting that this whole affair was his loss of about £3.50 because someone had smuggled in some vodka. It appears if you tell the bloke he is going to lose a quid he can't be trusted. Shouldn't tell him about the energy drink I smuggled in during the Oddbox Weekender.

You lose slightly more than three pounds fifty over a bottle of vodka. Even a quarter bottle. And you're basically justifying theft! Theft which could, if everyone chooses to behave that way, make the venue go into liquidation. How selfish is that?

 

[colacubes]

Of course but most people know how to express that they didn't like something rationally, politely and professionally like any venue owner would be expected to do. When I am at work I know the limits of my role as worker and know what is and isn't acceptable.

Oh I don't disagree with you at all on that front. But it's not quite as straightforward. He's the licensee and with pubs it's the their rules. I might think that a barring in that case is an overreaction, but tbh it's not my decision and it's tough shit on that front.

For example my band played a gig in a venue last Saturday. And then we and a load of our mates fucked off to another pub about half an hour after we'd finished. I think the management would have been well within their rights to be very pissed off if I'd announced it on stage and half the venue left with us.

 

[Blagsta]

Looks like arseholes on all sides. One to chalk up to experience and forget about imo.

 

[RaverDrew]

Nice one, I tried to be as objective as possible which I know is impossible but I thought a credible and not clearly directly bias response was needed. The response on Anorakforum.com is also brilliant. Apparently she said that everyone should go to The Lovely Egg's show when their set was finished whilst on stage and Seamus threw a wobbly about his potential losses and somewhere in the mix Elizabeth got banned from the venue (I think this is the story anyway).

Interesting that this whole affair was his loss of about £3.50 because someone had smuggled in some vodka. It appears if you tell the bloke he is going to lose a quid he can't be trusted. Shouldn't tell him about the energy drink I smuggled in during the Oddbox Weekender.

The band are well out of order for doing that, not surprised Saemus "threw a wobbly"

And from what I've heard the abusive girl from the band drank a lot more than £3.50 worth of booze.

Would you be happy to pay someone, and then all they want to do is steal from you, then tell you to "fuck off" when you catch them at it ?

 

[rutabowa]

could i find out, is there any person who heard the racist bit first hand?

one things for sure, if the band did just make up the racist bit because they knew the actual story wouldn't get them a lot of sympathy, or even worse to get a few more hits on their website, then that would make them the lowest of the low... IF that was the case (still haven't heard any first hand confirmations of it)