the purpose of life

[muckypup]

Invisible_Planet you're good

On the question of meaning and definition I strongly agree that much has been lost and misinterpreted in translation.The word Islam (derived from the root slm) literally means surrender but the root is also associated with the word Salaam (peace) and its fuller meaning refers to surrendering ones sense of self, the ego (The nafs) into a state of peace, by removing the barrier to divinity. The internal process by which we do this is interestingly referred to as Jihad. Or Al-jihād al-Akbar (the greater jihad), the struggle against one's nafs.

This is a definition of faith which clearly transcends any given dogma.

 

[kyser_soze]

A true scholar will use the language of love, understanding and unity

How does that work then? That to be a 'true' scholar, you should only say nice things?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A troo skola will youse teh langwidge of kittenz.

Korektid.

 

[weltweit]

The purpose of life?

Well the purpose of my life certainly isn't to waste my time and resources supporting any of the multiple fantasy supernatural religions that populate the globe, and which exist to suck up weak minded humans into their dubious midsts and relieve them of their time, some of their resources and most of their sanity!

Life is as life does, life is about the living!

 

[Aldebaran]

I really don't know where to begin with this ...

This then, as good as anything else...

Khalid Yasin isnt a scholar

No.
But I am.

a fatwa is a lot more than an opinion, its a an Islamic verdict of jurispudence based on evidence fron sharia sources.

Wrong. It isn't a "verdict".
It is a scholarly founded ruling that can be followed or not. (we are talking Sunni Islam here, Shia Islam differs in the sense that you are bound to follow the guidance of your chosen scholar). It totally depends on the authority given to the scholar if his rulings have any influence or not. (and that is also of weight in Shia Islam, of course)
As such a fatwa is in its essence no more that the scholar's opinion. Of course any scholar worth the name shall carefully study the case before giving his opinion on it, be it in the form of a fatwa or just an answer to a question of an individual.

the title of sheikh is applied out of respect, sheikh can mean scholar but its also used as a term of respect, a bit like sir is in the uk.

Even if I wouldn't be a scholar of Islam it wouldn't prevent people to name me shaich for reason that I'm descendant of the Prophet of Islam. (By the way, the word has several meanings, among which "old man". I'm not there yet.)

If a website or any writer calls for violence against no matter whom, it isn't the right one for you to read. I suggest you close it to never look at it again.

You can instead read the very good comments in this thread (made by non Muslims at that)

As there are:
invisibleplanet
muckypup (it is rather clear that Christian influence led Muslims in former European colonies focus on homosexuality)
Spion
and maybe others but I didn't read all of this thread.

If you need explanation & tafsir on Al Qur'an or any other help on your (new) path into Islam, do not rely on websites (or wikipedia????) to educate yourself. You can ask me, you can ask any good Imam. (Surely you attend a mosque?)
Furthermore, to approach Islam coming from your former Christian viewpoints is not always the most easy way. It can work very confusing.

And please, if you want to post something do so using normal words insteads of using lazy "leetspeak" or whatever it is called.
It is disrespectful and very tiring to read at that.

salaam.

 

[fattboy]

*the people referred to are the followers of the Torah, or of parts of it - i.e., Jews and Christians. It is, however, highly probable that this passage bears a wider import and relates to all communities which base their views on a revealed scripture, extant in a partially corrupted form, with parts of it entirely lost.

**these communities at first subscribed to the doctrine of G0D's oneness and held that man's self-surrender to Him (Islam in its original meaning is the essence of true religion. Their subsequent divergencies were an outcome of sectarian pride and mutual exclusiveness.
Muhammad Asad translation

My opinion is that you need better translations, or at least translations that are proper translations, and don't leave keywords untranslated.

are u telling me christians and jews are muslims?

 

[fattboy]

I really don't know where to begin with this ...

This then, as good as anything else...



No.
But I am.



Wrong. It isn't a "verdict".
It is a scholarly founded ruling that can be followed or not. (we are talking Sunni Islam here, Shia Islam differs in the sense that you are bound to follow the guidance of your chosen scholar). It totally depends on the authority given to the scholar if his rulings have any influence or not. (and that is also of weight in Shia Islam, of course)
As such a fatwa is in its essence no more that the scholar's opinion. Of course any scholar worth the name shall carefully study the case before giving his opinion on it, be it in the form of a fatwa or just an answer to a question of an individual.



Even if I wouldn't be a scholar of Islam it wouldn't prevent people to name me shaich for reason that I'm descendant of the Prophet of Islam. (By the way, the word has several meanings, among which "old man". I'm not there yet.)

If a website or any writer calls for violence against no matter whom, it isn't the right one for you to read. I suggest you close it to never look at it again.

You can instead read the very good comments in this thread (made by non Muslims at that)

As there are:
invisibleplanet
muckypup (it is rather clear that Christian influence led Muslims in former European colonies focus on homosexuality)
Spion
and maybe others but I didn't read all of this thread.

If you need explanation & tafsir on Al Qur'an or any other help on your (new) path into Islam, do not rely on websites (or wikipedia????) to educate yourself. You can ask me, you can ask any good Imam. (Surely you attend a mosque?)
Furthermore, to approach Islam coming from your former Christian viewpoints is not always the most easy way. It can work very confusing.

And please, if you want to post something do so using normal words insteads of using lazy "leetspeak" or whatever it is called.
It is disrespectful and very tiring to read at that.

salaam.

surely verdict is as close if not closer 2 the meaning than ruling is, especially if it doesnt have to be followed.

would u mind saying who u studied under and where?

and also wether ur a pacifist

wa aleikum salaam

 

[invisibleplanet]

are u telling me christians and jews are muslims?

No, according to the text in Al Qu'ran, "those who were vouchsafed revelation aforetime" are Jews and Christians, and also "quite probably" are "all communities which base their views on a revealed scripture, extant in a partially corrupted form, with parts of it entirely lost."

 

[Jonti]

are u telling me christians and jews are muslims?

I think you'll find the religions are surprisingly similar, once you get past the politicians and bearded weirdos.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Would you mind not casting aspertions on bearded men please!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I think you'll find the religions are surprisingly similar, once you get past the politicians and bearded weirdos.

Which is why they fight: they're like fractious siblings.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Which is why they fight: they're like fractious siblings.

No they don't! I'm right, you're wrong, mine is the only true way!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

No they don't! I'm right, you're wrong, mine is the only true way!

Hey, I'm not fighting with you: I'm 'none of the above'.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Not even a beard?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Not even a beard?

Only on holidays.

 

[muckypup]

Khalid Yasin isnt a scholar

No.
But I am.

aldebran I love yr claims to scholarship

 

[muckypup]

are u telling me christians and jews are muslims?

I'd go further then that and include the bhuddist, hindu's and other faths which on the surface appear polytheists. Scratch the surface and the kernal is the same as is the ultimate goal. Sure the process of Time has resulted in a decay of the original meaning but strip the layers away and we're all the same.

There is, if you look, a transcendent unity amongst all beliefs and the apparent divisiveness is engineered to ease (global) economic exploitation. Also, I'm not a pacifist; i believe in the struggle against massive injustice, however a prerequisite for that struggle is unity amongst people of faith. Acknowledging unity does dilute the uniqueness of each faith and its particular method but to quote the Christian Quakers 'in diversity lies the creativity of the divine'.

 

[Aldebaran]

are u telling me christians and jews are muslims?

If you knew the slightest about Islam you would know that we state that everyone is born a Muslim (= in a state of natural submission to God).

surely verdict is as close if not closer 2 the meaning than ruling is, especially if it doesnt have to be followed.

You really should look up the meaning of verdict in juridicial context.

would u mind saying who u studied under and where?

Yes, I do mind.

nd also wether ur a pacifist

Every Muslim should be. To seek peaceful solutions is a command you find repeated all through Al Qur'an.


salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

aldebran I love yr claims to scholarship

Surprize...Repetetive post from muckypup.
When, if ever, do you plan to come up with something original?

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

I'd go further then that and include the bhuddist, hindu's and other faths which on the surface appear polytheists. Scratch the surface and the kernal is the same as is the ultimate goal. Sure the process of Time has resulted in a decay of the original meaning but strip the layers away and we're all the same.

I consider the buddha a prophet of God.
As far as I'm informed on it (not much) Hinduism comes down to worshipping one God appearing in/with various specifis characteristics (or avatars.)

There is, if you look, a transcendent unity amongst all beliefs and the apparent divisiveness is engineered to ease (global) economic exploitation.

An aspect that inevitably gets incorporated into any society as it grows and expands. It has nothing to see with religion(s) as such.

Also, I'm not a pacifist; i believe in the struggle against massive injustice, however a prerequisite for that struggle is unity amongst people of faith.

You seem to exclude atheists from any inclination towards pacifism and/or erradication of injustice (and to struggle against injustice does not need you to forsake pacifism).

Acknowledging unity does dilute the uniqueness of each faith and its particular method but to quote the Christian Quakers 'in diversity lies the creativity of the divine'.

There is no dilution possible in the belief in God's existence. No matter how you practice your beliefs, the first requirement is believing God exists.

"in diversity lies the creativity of the Divine" is not a bad expression but it is too limited in its portrayment of the Divine.

salaam.

 

[fattboy]

No, according to the text in Al Qu'ran, "those who were vouchsafed revelation aforetime" are Jews and Christians, and also "quite probably" are "all communities which base their views on a revealed scripture, extant in a partially corrupted form, with parts of it entirely lost."

right

 

[fattboy]

I'd go further then that and include the bhuddist, hindu's and other faths which on the surface appear polytheists. Scratch the surface and the kernal is the same as is the ultimate goal. Sure the process of Time has resulted in a decay of the original meaning but strip the layers away and we're all the same.

There is, if you look, a transcendent unity amongst all beliefs and the apparent divisiveness is engineered to ease (global) economic exploitation. Also, I'm not a pacifist; i believe in the struggle against massive injustice, however a prerequisite for that struggle is unity amongst people of faith. Acknowledging unity does dilute the uniqueness of each faith and its particular method but to quote the Christian Quakers 'in diversity lies the creativity of the divine'.

the pagans of Mecca that fought the muslims also believed in Allah, but their belief in other gods besides him meant they were not muslims, there fought battles with the muslims and were eventually defeated and were never considered anything over than disbelievers by the Prophet pbuh.

 

[fattboy]

If you knew the slightest about Islam you would know that we state that everyone is born a Muslim (= in a state of natural submission to God).



You really should look up the meaning of verdict in juridicial context.



Yes, I do mind.



Every Muslim should be. To seek peaceful solutions is a command you find repeated all through Al Qur'an.


salaam.

everyones born a muslim, but after the age of puberty everyones responsible for adhering to Islam, few do.

agreed,violence is always the last resort.

ur a shia arent u


wa aleikum

 

[invisibleplanet]

No, he's a Muslim.
Don't start any sectarian nonsense here, please.

 

[butchersapron]

u r a shia bastard!

Asalaamu Aleikum brother

 

[butchersapron]

We're *all* muslims here FFS.

 

[invisibleplanet]

the pagans of Mecca that fought the muslims also believed in Allah, but their belief in other gods besides him meant they were not muslims, there fought battles with the muslims and were eventually defeated and were never considered anything over than disbelievers by the Prophet pbuh.

Sorry - I have to interject - you use the Christian term 'pagan' to describe pre-Islamic Arabians. Why?

 

[fattboy]

No, he's a Muslim.
Don't start any sectarian nonsense here, please.

ppl with all kind of beliefs claim to be muslims, thats fair enough
but with the amount of different groups today these labels are necessary to know where their taking their knowledge from and what their aqueeda (creed) is.

im a muslim but ive got no problem saying im a salafi, or being called one.

 

[fattboy]

Sorry - I have to interject - you use the Christian term 'pagan' to describe pre-Islamic Arabians. Why?

because i didnt think u'd be familiar with the term mushrik.

 

[invisibleplanet]

I shall expect butchersapron to be along shortly to shout!'

'takfiri bastard!' at you, or some other such sectarian insult.