the purpose of life

[invisibleplanet]

it is religious, there just a differing over wether its mandatory or not.

It is not religious. It is an outmoded pre-Islamic cultural habit.

 

[butchersapron]

Not political but ideological. A small but important difference. What is "testification"?

How does that work then?

 

[invisibleplanet]

the testification of faith is the shahada or kalima.
it translates like this, 'There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammed is His Messenger.'

it is political because it negates the authority of anything other than the authority of Islam.

It is religious, because it accepts only the authority of G0D.

 

[fattboy]

It is not religious. It is an outmoded pre-Islamic cultural habit.

theres nothing pre Islamic about the niqaab, the pre Islamic arabs probably partied harder than anyone.

 

[fattboy]

It is religious, because it accepts only the authority of G0D.

therefore its also political because it negates the authority of any other system of rule.

 

[kyser_soze]

Hmmm...aside from one person (who was a gay Muslim), all of the Muslims I've worked with and gotten round to discussing their faith, male and female, while not being homophobic have all said that homosexuality is not an ideal state of being (one chap even went so far as to say that only the 'receiver' was homosexual) with varying degrees of vehemence. AFAIK all of them were born, not converts...

 

[nino_savatte]

the testification of faith is the shahada or kalima.
it translates like this, 'There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammed is His Messenger.'

it is political because it negates the authority of anything other than the authority of Islam.

I haven't heard of this word "testification". testament, yes but not testification.

 

[kyser_soze]

I haven't heard of this word "testification". testament, yes but not testification.

Testification = talking bollocks?

 

[nino_savatte]

Testification = talking bollocks?

Aye, that's about the size of it.

 

[invisibleplanet]

theres nothing pre Islamic about the niqaab, the pre Islamic arabs probably partied harder than anyone.

The niqab is a social convention that is connected to economic standing and has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam. Wealthy, high status women wore the niqab. It was never seen among the lower classes. It certainly pre-dates Islam. Go read up on the history of veils.

 

[invisibleplanet]

therefore its also political because it negates the authority of any other system of rule.

No. Because Eloah/Allah (G0D) accepts not only Islam as a religious system, but also Judaism, Christianity...it's all there in the Qu'ran. You should read it sometime

 

[fattboy]

I haven't heard of this word "testification". testament, yes but not testification.

im sure its testification, anyway its better known as the shahada

 

[fattboy]

No. Because Eloah/Allah (G0D) accepts not only Islam as a religious system, but also Judaism, Christianity...it's all there in the Qu'ran. You should read it sometime

'The religion in the Sight of Allah is Islam'
Qur'an 3:19

'And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam it will never be accepted of him and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers'

Qur'an 3:85

yeah, ahl al kitaab(ppl of the book) are accepted, but not their authority.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Why are you translating some words from the Arabic, but not others?

 

[Brainaddict]

Oh dear. Fattboy I think you may have a problem with thinking for yourself. Which is why you feel the need to adhere to an ancient system of morals that I very much doubt its founder ever intended to be set in stone and used by cunts to make others miserable.

I think I've spotted the source of your problem though. Sometimes your verbal thoughts transform into numbers instead of words, and this causes you to act like a mindless robot. I prescribe some kind of education that would teach you to, like, think. A genuinely good education of this sort would deal with both the number/word confusion problem and the problem of being a bigotted idiot

 

[littlebabyjesus]

'And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam it will never be accepted of him and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers'

It's very convenient that it's all resolved after death, isn't it?

 

[kyser_soze]

bigotted idiot

Only 1 't'...you're excused cos it's Monday and your post was good...

 

[Crispy]

It's very convenient that it's all resolved after death, isn't it?

Suits me just fine. The devil can do whatever he wants with my rotting corpse - I'll have finished with it.

 

[kyser_soze]

Aye, that's about the size of it.

There's some big hairy testefication going on around here...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Suits me just fine. The devil can do whatever he wants with my rotting corpse - I'll have finished with it.

Me too. Problem is, it also suits believers who can use it to justify all kinds of behaviour. Just look at Tony 'God will judge me' Blair.

 

[invisibleplanet]

'The religion in the Sight of Allah is Islam'
Qur'an 3:19

Behold, the only [true] religion in the sight of G0D is [man's] self-surrender unto Him; and those who were vouchsafed revelation aforetime* took, out of mutual jealousy, to divergent views [on this point] only after knowledge [thereof] had come unto them.** But as for him who denies the truth of G0D's messages - behold, G0D is swift in reckoning!

*the people referred to are the followers of the Torah, or of parts of it - i.e., Jews and Christians. It is, however, highly probable that this passage bears a wider import and relates to all communities which base their views on a revealed scripture, extant in a partially corrupted form, with parts of it entirely lost.

**these communities at first subscribed to the doctrine of G0D's oneness and held that man's self-surrender to Him (Islam in its original meaning is the essence of true religion. Their subsequent divergencies were an outcome of sectarian pride and mutual exclusiveness.
Muhammad Asad translation

My opinion is that you need better translations, or at least translations that are proper translations, and don't leave keywords untranslated.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Suits me just fine. The devil can do whatever he wants with my rotting corpse - I'll have finished with it.

Oooh, can I have it?

 

[Brainaddict]

Incidentally fattboy, if you're interested in reading the thoughts of a Muslim who can think for himself, I recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Desperately-Seeking-Paradise-Journeys-Sceptical/dp/186207755X/

I'd recommend it to anyone actually - a very good read.

 

[nino_savatte]

There's some big hairy testefication going on around here...

Missus!

 

[kyser_soze]

I'm sending that one into the Washington Post's 'New Lexicon' thing...or is it the NYT? I can never remember...

 

[invisibleplanet]

'And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam it will never be accepted of him and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers'

Qur'an 3:85

Full translation:

For, if one goes in search of a religion other than self-surrender unto God, it will never be accepted from him, and in the life to come he shall be among the lost.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Repeat after me in a brain-dead monotone:

it is written in this book, so it must be true

 

[Brainaddict]

Repeat after me in a brain-dead monotone:

it is written in this book, so it must be true

 

[rover07]

'The religion in the Sight of Allah is Islam'
Qur'an 3:19

'And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam it will never be accepted of him and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers'

Qur'an 3:85

yeah, ahl al kitaab(ppl of the book) are accepted, but not their authority.

Or "How dare you not believe in my new religion. Just you wait 'til you're dead and my God Allah gets his hands on you...You'll be sorry!"

Prophet Muhammed

 

[muckypup]

there are dodgy scholars without a doubt, the scholars 4 dollars, but there are sincere ones too, the further a scholar sits from the gates of the rulers the more trust i'll in him.

The scholars who appear to 'sit far from the gates of the ruler' are, in todays complex world just as likely to be co-opted and compromised. Indeed possibly more so. Be wary. A true scholar will use the language of love, understanding and unity.