the purpose of life

[weltweit]

Survive long enough to breed, that's the most basic purpose of life. All the rest is window dressing.

But ive already bred! by your creed kyser_soze I have nothing left to do! I guess I am going to be very bored.

 

[Kizmet]

Of course an alternate description for "the purpose of life?"

would be

Life: all living creatures and plants, all their subsequent offspring and their parents, all species of plant and animal.

Purpose: reason for being, intentions while alive, goals sought.

The purpose of life? discussion would then I expect be much more Darwinian or perhaps even creationist than the case of the individual human life. But it perhaps would be just as interesting.

Life itself... why are we here stuff.

Do we have a job to do?

A role to fill?

A vital cog in a perpetual machine of reality?

No. Don't think so. Other than those we give ourselves.

 

[Kizmet]

But ive already bred! by your creed kyser_soze I have nothing left to do! I guess I am going to be very bored.

You have fulfilled your purpose... but that doesn't stop you from fulfilling it again. And again.

Go fulfill your boots.

 

[weltweit]

Life itself... why are we here stuff.

Do we have a job to do?

A role to fill?

A vital cog in a perpetual machine of reality?

No. Don't think so. Other than those we give ourselves.

I tend to agree with respect to all life, that there is life at all is quite remarkable but seeing that it is here in myriad forms and shapes and sizes it is all behaving with the logic of the lichen on rocks by the sea, spreading out and thriving where it can and dying back where it cannot be supported. A myriad of millions of species all engaged in the quest for survival.

What is its purpose? to be alive and, of course to survive.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I'd very much recommend Tolstoy's 'A Confession' as it is very close to the heart of this subject. And whether you agree with what he says or not, he makes some thought provoking comments along the way.

Online text available here amongst other places.

 

[weltweit]

So, in combination...

the reason for a single life..
the intentions of that life...
the goals sought by that life..

that's three different questions, innit?

a) there isn't one.
b) to survive long enough to breed
c) to breed with the best available mate

Those are the technical questions... pertaining to the purpose of a single lfe.

But these are the biological basics, the stuff of genetics, I do not deny that these exist but there can be intentions of a human that are more than just "survive long enough to breed", what about if the human comes to feel that they have a life's work they wish to complete?

Under the goals sought by that life, reproduction with a good mate is also a biological issue and there is more to life than that, what about living a morally and ethically sound life and perhaps even striving to contribute to the wealth of human knowledge? Or hedonistically, to climb Mt Everest just because it is there? that can be a goal sought by a single human.

 

[Spion]

Survive long enough to breed, that's the most basic purpose of life. All the rest is window dressing.

For life that is conscious of itself I'd say that's a little short of the mark, to say the least

 

[kyser_soze]

Consciousness is window dressing.

 

[weltweit]

You have fulfilled your purpose... but that doesn't stop you from fulfilling it again. And again.

Go fulfill your boots.

No, enough breeding for me. Kids are expensive and at the very start very painful, were I seriously rich I might adopt a hoard of them but apart from that I think probably no more kids for me.

After all, it is not as if there is exactly a shortage of people on the planet.

 

[Spion]

Consciousness is window dressing.

the Saturday night battlecry of the serious-drinking philosopher!

 

[Kizmet]

But these are the biological basics, the stuff of genetics, I do not deny that these exist but there can be intentions of a human that are more than just "survive long enough to breed", what about if the human comes to feel that they have a life's work they wish to complete?

Under the goals sought by that life, reproduction with a good mate is also a biological issue and there is more to life than that, what about living a morally and ethically sound life and perhaps even striving to contribute to the wealth of human knowledge? Or hedonistically, to climb Mt Everest just because it is there? that can be a goal sought by a single human.

As I said... other than that which we choose.

We are lucky that we are capable and able to choose our own individual purposes. But that that doesn't mean that there was a purpose to our being able to choose.

What is the purpose of you life is a different question.

 

[weltweit]

I'd very much recommend Tolstoy's 'A Confession' as it is very close to the heart of this subject. And whether you agree with what he says or not, he makes some thought provoking comments along the way.

Online text available here amongst other places.

Interesting link Barking_Mad, thanks.

It does sound like Tolstoy went through a semi suicidal depressive period when he was searching for the meaning for his life or life at all. I was concerned with his conclusion for much of that period that life itself was evil and therefore the strong should end it, something that he failed to do.

 

[weltweit]

As I said... other than that which we choose.

We are lucky that we are capable and able to choose our own individual purposes. But that that doesn't mean that there was a purpose to our being able to choose.

A purpose to our being able to choose? No I guess i can see that there is not that. In more basic hunter gatherer type human communities there may be less chance to choose whereas in western industrialised societies where there is perhaps more abundance and more possibilities there may be considered to be much greater ability to choose.

What is the purpose of you life is a different question.

But then what is the purpose of a single human life? to be a single human and do as humans do, perhaps divining a greater purpose along the way of its life if it ever finds the need for a greater purpose than that of simply being a human being.

The purpose of a single human life?

A human being = being a human.

 

[fattboy]

can u lot just click the link in the first post and at least have a little listen to some of the talk, aint like ur doing anything else while ur sitting there.

 

[fattboy]

For life that is conscious of itself I'd say that's a little short of the mark, to say the least

exactly, to just come from nothing to a level of consciuosness where u can ponder ur existence and purpose is like a proof of creation in itself.

 

[weltweit]

can u lot just click the link in the first post and at least have a little listen to some of the talk, aint like ur doing anything else while ur sitting there.

No, I can't, I can't do audio files (or video) with this computer.

Is there is a transcript anywhere I could read?

 

[Spion]

exactly, to just come from nothing to a level of consciuosness where u can ponder ur existence and purpose is like a proof of creation in itself.

No it isn't. That doesn't follow at all, especially when we are able to see all the other forms of life and see how they change, how they evolve and how new attributes arise

 

[weltweit]

exactly, to just come from nothing to a level of consciuosness where u can ponder ur existence and purpose is like a proof of creation in itself.

It is no such thing! and anyhow are you sure you mean creation and not intelligent design?

The only logical explanation for the emergence of complex life which can be said to have conciousness is the gradual step by step evolution by natural selection one tiny step at a time over millenia.

The fact that we are pondering our existance at all is because we have managed to secure the provision of essentials such as food water and a roof over our heads to such an extent, in the industrialised west at least, such that we are now wondering about what else we can do with our time. Hence we are pondering our existance! When we lived like troops of baboons there was no spare time for pondering.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Interesting link Barking_Mad, thanks.

It does sound like Tolstoy went through a semi suicidal depressive period when he was searching for the meaning for his life or life at all. I was concerned with his conclusion for much of that period that life itself was evil and therefore the strong should end it, something that he failed to do.

Yes, at 50 he started to question himself, his place in society and what he should be really doing with his life and he ended up contemplating suicide as rationally he came to the conclusion that life was quite pointless. A bit of a 'zero sum game' if you like. He read lots of what science had to offer, lots of what philosophy had to offer but found that neither offered any real answers about the nature of life itself and how he should be living it.

He found his answers in a personal faith, one which excluded orthadox religion and the ramblings of The Church, priests etc.. and instead he looked closely at what Christ's own teachings had to say (Sermon on the Mount etc..) and decided that both rationally and spiritually there was a great deal of sense and goodness in what he said.

He went on to write 'The Kingdom of God Is Within You', a book banned by for its complete slating of The Orthadox Church and all it stood for. It was this book that inspired Ghandi's non-violent resistance to the British rule in India and eventually led to its removal.

Two books that regardless of anyones views are really worth reading in my opinion. There's plenty of those moments in them that make you feel like your brain has just expanded a little bit more

 

[kyser_soze]

He read lots of what science had to offer, lots of what philosophy had to offer but found that neither offered any real answers about the nature of life itself and how he should be living it.

He found his answers in a personal faith, one which excluded orthadox religion and the ramblings of The Church, priests etc.. and instead he looked closely at what Christ's own teachings (Sermon on the Mount etc..) and decided that both rationally and spiritually there was a great deal of sense and goodness in what he said.

Interesting that Nietsche went through the same process (altho he described it as gazing into the abyss), but came out of it with the notion that in order to grow you need to go there, throw away everything, and return to life, but defined on your own terms, instead of going into 'deep theology' as Tolstoy did.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Interesting that Nietsche went through the same process (altho he described it as gazing into the abyss), but came out of it with the notion that in order to grow you need to go there, throw away everything, and return to life, but defined on your own terms, instead of going into 'deep theology' as Tolstoy did.

Is he related to Nietzsche at all then?

 

[kyser_soze]

Sorry, pre-coffee spelling...

 

[goldenecitrone]

Having just had a nasty bout of the noro virus I'd say that survival is the purpose of life. I'd hate to get that if I was a nipper or an old fogey.

 

[weltweit]

Yes, at 50 he started to question himself, his place in society and what he should be really doing with his life and he ended up contemplating suicide as rationally he came to the conclusion that life was quite pointless. A bit of a 'zero sum game' if you like. ....

I pondered about Bill Gates. He played the business game and won handsomly, becoming perhaps the richest man in the world. But now it seems the game has become dull to him, he has done it and yet perhaps does not feel fully satisfied and he had come to the realisation that he has far more money than he can ever need.

Now he and his wife are spending their time giving the money away to other people and causes that have better use for it. There is it seems in this case no need for punitive redistributive taxation to take from the rich and give to the poor as Bill Gates and his wife are doing it anyhow on their own account.

I wonder if the simple life of an honest barber (hair dresser) joking with customers as they do them a personal service, can be just as morally satisfying as the life of a Bill Gates, and I think it probably can be.

 

[kyser_soze]

If you'd ever read a biog of Gates you'd know that he didn't 'discover' philanthropy, he was bought up in a comfortable m/c US home with a strong moral code about the duty of those with resources to help those without, and not to trade on inherited wealth. He gave any inherited wealth he did have away and founded MS with his own cash. While his business practices have often been dubious and I understand the resistance to his all-encompassing 'vision', but I don't think there's anyone out there who can question his work ethic, or accuse him of cynicism.

 

[weltweit]

Oh KS I am not suggesting Bill Gates discovered philanthropy, rather that the excess of wealth that he generated for himself almost made the decision inevitable. And that perhaps like Tolstoy he may have gotten to the stage where despite his sucess or perhaps because of it, he may have questioned what for him was the meaning of life.

 

[kyser_soze]

And my point is that given his upbringing it was something he was likely to do, not out of the kind of soul searching that Tolstoy went through. Not all the software billionaires are as dedicated as Gates - Larry Ellison from Oracle for example, is still Mr Alpha Male, fuck you all I've got $10bn in the bank (altho you have to admire the chutpah of someone who was banned from flying over San Fran for flying his de-militarised Mig-29 under the Golden Gate bridge too many times...)

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

And my point is that given his upbringing it was something he was likely to do, not out of the kind of soul searching that Tolstoy went through. Not all the software billionaires are as dedicated as Gates - Larry Ellison from Oracle for example, is still Mr Alpha Male, fuck you all I've got $10bn in the bank (altho you have to admire the chutpah of someone who was banned from flying over San Fran for flying his de-militarised Mig-29 under the Golden Gate bridge too many times...)

"Your 'z' keys fucked mate, what with all this chutpah and Neitsche", says me with great chutzpah....tee hee

 

[weltweit]

And my point is that given his upbringing it was something he was likely to do, not out of the kind of soul searching that Tolstoy went through.

Ah, oh well that may be true but I think that an intelligent person who has created for themselves so many advantages in life, so much privilidge as Tolstoy and Gates have/had would not be able to escape from the question - what is the purpose of my life?

Indeed I think for many intelligent people this question is never too far away and they are constantly re-evaluating it.

I read a thing called the "Hierarchy of needs" by Maslow, some years ago and it has stayed with me. Maslow basically argued that there is a hierarchy of needs for humans starting with the basics food and shelter, then once those are plentiful rising up to higher level needs such as a sense of importance and or morality and eventually IIRC 'self actualisation' (I forget the meaning assigned to that).

People like Tolstoy and Gates have all the lower level needs in such abundance that they need not even think about them and according to Maslow they inevitably rise up to the higher level needs.

From that theory of needs, a starving man is not expected to behave morally or ethically, he has to get food so he will steal if necessary and cannot really be blamed for so doing.

Not all the software billionaires are as dedicated as Gates - Larry Ellison from Oracle for example, is still Mr Alpha Male, fuck you all I've got $10bn in the bank (altho you have to admire the chutpah of someone who was banned from flying over San Fran for flying his de-militarised Mig-29 under the Golden Gate bridge too many times...)

Hah, rich 'boys toys' indeed

 

[goldenecitrone]

I read a thing called the "Hierarchy of needs" by Maslow, some years ago and it has stayed with me. Maslow basically argued that there is a hierarchy of needs for humans starting with the basics food and shelter...-)

It's Maszlow. What's wrong with you guys today? Having a none 'z' day?