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    Lazy Llama

The most working-class anarchist group is...

charlie mowbray said:
That would have been me. I'm pretty sure I coined the phrase and the thinking around it in the mid-70s

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:cool: ;)
 
charlie mowbray said:
Pickman's model "i think one of the anarchist federation's luminaries describes it as the "leadership of ideas". "
That would have been me. I'm pretty sure I coined the phrase and the thinking around it in the mid-70s


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Talk to the SWP then, not me

Pickman's model said:
lletsa

you don't get it, do you? class war is not supposed to be like lefty trot shit such as social worker. it is supposed to be entertaining and thought-provoking, rather than some sludge the fuckwitted central committee wants you to read. if you were vaguely interested in anarchist politics fifteen years ago, i'd hope you'd have read - or glanced at - the two class war books, decade of disorder and unfinished business. i don't suppose you have cos you wouldn't perhaps be making yrself out to be such a braying ass had you.

why do you take social worker and its sordid ilk seriously? anyone with even a passing interest in anarchist and left-wing politics should notice quite quickly that where anarchists lead the fuckwit trots follow. i think one of the anarchist federation's luminaries describes it as the "leadership of ideas". certainly that describes it best. class war - for example - were involved in anti-fascism in the '80s and '90s when the swp didn't consider it a threat, before their papersales started getting turned over by the fash. class war members were active in anti-capitalism (vs g8, in the '80s stop the city demos &c) before the swp had realised they might be missing a good thing. every fucking thing the swp do is so fucking obviously a rip-off of what anarchists have done previously it's bizarre. if you want to know what the swp will be up to in 2007 or 2009 look at what anarchists are doing irl now.

returning to class war's politics, you could profitably read unfinished business - which, despite being published in 1992, is a good introduction to what we think. you might learn something from it.



Oh dearie me!

Has it really taken you, what is it now, a week or so since the subject of CW came up, to think up that little pile of irrelevancies? Even Flowers in the Attica managed to compose his buffooneries quicker. Your post is better but irrelevant to anything I've said. For the thousandth time-the point I made was that, in my own experience, almost nobody has heard of CW and those that have do not take it seriously. Yes, it was fifteen or more years ago - but that was when a handful of people I knew actually raised the subject of CW. Now, nobody I know ever does. If I spoke of CW, the reaction would be:'who?' I can't help suspecting that they are more typical of the population than those that have heard of CW. To say that is not to score points - I have read CW often enough, and nodded with approval at plenty of things it has said, but it does not do enough for me to care what happens to it one way or the other. As with for the vast majority of people, Class War does not touch my life at all.

So I hope that clears that up then. Another brief summary just for your diaries: in my experience few have heard of CW and those that have were either unmoved by it or misunderstood what it was supposed to be about. End of story; no comment passed by me (check my posts) as to the worth of CW or the pushing forward of any alternatives to it. Least of all Socialist Worker and the Morning Star. In addition to the above, you also seem to need reminding that what I was saying when referring to them, was that the more politicised people in my then workplace took those particular publications more seriously than they did CW. Simple as. Maybe they shouldn't have. Maybe they should. But I didn't advise them one way or another - I was a mere strip of a lad; that was just the way it was. So spare me all the toss about lines handed down by central committees and all that because nowhere do I advocate anything of the kind.

Fuck me - an incredible seven hundred and odd posts on and the vanguard of Urban 75 anarchism is still crying over nowt, still speaking in the same outraged tone and deflecting criticisms by lying about what people have said. Or maybe, like the fash on RA, some of you have difficulty comprehending what you read?

Is it any wonder, then, that some people among you have so much difficulty in comprehending the working class?

And I think you might have missed the irony of your assertion that Socialist Worker is a Class War rip off....
 
all yr bullshit about vanguards and central committees and politburos shows you really have never got to grips with some core aspects of anarchism.
 
Attica said:
Letsa - do you know anything about what happened at Attica in the early 1970's?



No.

Nor do I even know where Attica is. I expect that's because I'm a 'down the pub declasse' individual.

But whatever it was that happened, I'm glad to see that you're keeping it in one of the many consciousness's of the working class by choosing as one of your many usernames on Urban 75 Politics and Protest.
 
charlie mowbray said:
Pickman's model "i think one of the anarchist federation's luminaries describes it as the "leadership of ideas". "
That would have been me. I'm pretty sure I coined the phrase and the thinking around it in the mid-70s

I coined a phrase in the 70s yer know
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LLETSA said:
No.

Nor do I even know where Attica is. I expect that's because I'm a 'down the pub declasse' individual.

But whatever it was that happened, I'm glad to see that you're keeping it in one of the many consciousness's of the working class by choosing as one of your many usernames on Urban 75 Politics and Protest.

Well perhaps maybe you should, 'the flowers in the Attica' you mentioned would be on the working class graves in the biggest massacre by American forces in the USA since the Native American Indian genocide...

But, not only for that reason. The prison movement in America is providing some of the best radical working class organising at the moment, thousands attend their conferences... I don't accept the view that there is nothing to learn from outside 'our sceptered isle' either, that would be a truly pathetic position in this techno global age...
 
Attica said:
Well perhaps maybe you should, 'the flowers in the Attica' you mentioned would be on the working class graves in the biggest massacre by American forces in the USA since the Native American Indian genocide...

But, not only for that reason. The prison movement in America is providing some of the best radical working class organising at the moment, thousands attend their conferences... I don't accept the view that there is nothing to learn from outside 'our sceptered isle' either, that would be a truly pathetic position in this techno global age...


Ive just sussed out who you are,the black hand.
Master of biblographys and lowlife fetashist.
 
Attica said:
Again, i do not see anarchism as an end, a goal, the ultimate solution, but a method in which we work.

If we are to recognise class as one of relationship, not only one we have towards the means of production but with every other person who exists, so class articulates itself through a commonality of experience, by means in which common interest is sought & identified, both between ourselves but also towards those whose interests are antagonistic & in opposition to ours. This happens through experience, awareness, realisation & ultimately self-acknowledgement. I am working class not because i choose it as a category but because of the sum total accumulation of my experiences. People experience class culturally, politically, socially & intellectually, but it is experienced as a relationship. Class then is not a position we hold, but one we live through.This is what I believe. And to develop it further, and paraphrasing EP Thompson, and Karl Marx;

'people make history through moral choice, but they do not do so exactly as they please, they make it in conditions inherited and transmitted from the past'....


Go on Letsa, try engaging with real ideas such as the above, rather than the purile repetition that is your usual crap.
 
kropotkin said:
no- catch there are quite a few IWCA ers here. Sean, past caring, Louis MacNeice, Joe Reilly, haggy (ex?- now HI), cogg, er...more I think.

Fair enough, forgot pc was iwca - and don't remember seeing him post about the iwca to be honest, had mentioned Louis, didn't count haggy since he's HI (can speak for himself though), and haven't really had dealings with sean or cogg. My mistake, I'm still new!
 
ernestolynch said:
attica didn't you post once that you said all prisoners should be freed?

No, I was asked this before though, and i said it was an abstract question, ahistorical and apolitical, and hence devoid of meaning.
 
Next time I'll say it with a deadpan face

Pickman's model said:
all yr bullshit about vanguards and central committees and politburos shows you really have never got to grips with some core aspects of anarchism.



I did it to wind certain people up. Like you do, you know? Makes you feel better for seconds on end.

Even though you appear to have been conferring with each other regarding how to refute such issues of world historic importance as somebody saying, 'In my experience Class War isn't seen as very important or relevant,' I didn't really think that you had a politbureau.
 
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