i am wondering what it will take for people to actually realise that the left are now totally dead. Or is everyone in denial?
the left is dead
- Thread starter brasicritique
- Start date
Intersting viewpoint. the swing of the majority to the right and the emergance of new labour would superficially bear this out but if you actually ask people what they believe in by far the majority of ordinary people have a mix of left and right wing views. The basis of these is left but then the strongest single issue will be of a right wing view and that tends to be what dictates their voting.
The left is not dead but no left wing party is coherant and in touch enough to put forward an electable alternative.
One day the pendulum will swing back the other way though but not until the world of political representation is once again realistic and the self righteous public school lefties get out and people from the real world who are not afraid to speak on controversial subjects actually start confronting them again.
The left is not dead but no left wing party is coherant and in touch enough to put forward an electable alternative.
One day the pendulum will swing back the other way though but not until the world of political representation is once again realistic and the self righteous public school lefties get out and people from the real world who are not afraid to speak on controversial subjects actually start confronting them again.
When the biggest selling newspaper in the UK preaches hate and division they'd have to be pretty clumsy NOT to..
True but there is also the matter of FUNDING. The left want millionaires hammered, millionaires are the ones with the money so....
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Compared to who? The 'left'?
Most people i know have left wing views when it comes to workers rights but right wing views when it comes to immigration . They also whinge about people on benefits...until they themselves are in that situation, then hey presto COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!
Sadly the British public are too easily brainwashed by the media
Sadly the British public are too easily brainwashed by the media
What you dismiss as "right wing views" on immigration are often nothing of the sort.
Unfortunately part of the reason why the left totally fail to connect to working people is that they themselves have very right wing pro free market views on migration.
And yes trev lots of people react to stories about people abusing the benefit system. They see it as wrong that they work there bollocks off while others abuse the system. But that doesnt mean they automatically think oh but the rich are nice never mind all the tax evasion.
Sadly the people who seem most brainwashed by the media in this country are those lefties with totally predictable and channeled leftie views....
by 'left' i mean both the dwindling political cultists such as the swp and mainstream so called left wing parties
i actually think that the media as a whole are pushing debates to the right under the cover of a 'centreground' as they appear to be copying the american model of politics and democracy I do not think that the majority of the poepl in this country are right wing
it is just so frustrating that the politcal radicals who will go to the anarchists book fair seem more interesting in talking about things than doing things
i actually think that the media as a whole are pushing debates to the right under the cover of a 'centreground' as they appear to be copying the american model of politics and democracy I do not think that the majority of the poepl in this country are right wing
it is just so frustrating that the politcal radicals who will go to the anarchists book fair seem more interesting in talking about things than doing things
There are no mainstream left wing parties in the uk.
Your comment about the bookfairs above probably answers a lot of the original question too. Activism seems dead to me more than the viewpoint/outlook. the left more than the right has relied on activism to bring about suppport and then ultimately change. Unfortunately change takes longer and longer to bring about and in 21st century culture peoples attention span and patience is getting less and less therefore activism is a dying activity and support for true left wing politics (and anarchism) is dwindling.
THen again I am turning into an apathetic middle aged old man who spends more time talking about what we used to or should do rather than what we will do
Your comment about the bookfairs above probably answers a lot of the original question too. Activism seems dead to me more than the viewpoint/outlook. the left more than the right has relied on activism to bring about suppport and then ultimately change. Unfortunately change takes longer and longer to bring about and in 21st century culture peoples attention span and patience is getting less and less therefore activism is a dying activity and support for true left wing politics (and anarchism) is dwindling.
THen again I am turning into an apathetic middle aged old man who spends more time talking about what we used to or should do rather than what we will do
What mainstream left-wing parties?
The organised far left is moribund. That's been obvious for years, mainly because it's dominated by a few irrelevant Trot sects that are still fighting the ideological battles of the 1930s in language that just doesn't chime with most people now.
What has The Sun got to do with it?
elbows
Well-Known Member
Some traditional representations of the left do seem to have faded away rather dramatically in the last 30 years.
However a rather dominant belief system, the wisdom and power of markets, is not looking paticularily healthy right now.
And you can hardly look at events in South America this century and say the left is dead. A certain brand of hard left politics appears discredited and dated, but many rather large events in store for humanity in the coming decades leave open the possibilities for large lurches in all sorts of directions on the political compass.
Being 33 Im just hoping to live long enough that I may witness first hand as an adult something of the left in these parts that is beyond watching Tony Benn get old, vague memories of everyone hating Thatcher, or listening to Billy Brag nostalge over the 1980's.
However a rather dominant belief system, the wisdom and power of markets, is not looking paticularily healthy right now.
And you can hardly look at events in South America this century and say the left is dead. A certain brand of hard left politics appears discredited and dated, but many rather large events in store for humanity in the coming decades leave open the possibilities for large lurches in all sorts of directions on the political compass.
Being 33 Im just hoping to live long enough that I may witness first hand as an adult something of the left in these parts that is beyond watching Tony Benn get old, vague memories of everyone hating Thatcher, or listening to Billy Brag nostalge over the 1980's.
The far left is certainly finished, just look at the agenda for its flagship 'relaunch event', 'The Convention of the Left' which is timed to coincide with the LP Conference in Manchester. While there are some very good meetings on unions, privatisation, housing, etc, these are tucked away on weekdays, the programme for the weekend(when most people can attend) is the usual of war, racism/migration, imperialism, etc, they even changed the timing of the opening plenary so that the Comrades could one once again march from A to B and anyway, why another STW demo? this would have been the time to raise other issues at a time of crisis for capital.?
t
t
The Far Left as presently constituted is certainly finished, just look at the agenda for its flagship 'relaunch event', 'The Convention of the Left' which is timed to coincide with the LP Conference in Manchester. While there are some very good meetings on unions, privatisation, housing, etc, these are tucked away on weekdays, the programme for the weekend(when most people can attend) is the usual of war, racism/migration, imperialism, etc, they even changed the timing of the opening plenary so that the Comrades could one once again march from A to B and anyway, why another STW demo? this would have been the time to raise other issues at a time of crisis for capital?
btw, mods, can you delete my previous post, formatting has gone haywire!
btw, mods, can you delete my previous post, formatting has gone haywire!
I don't no what people mean by 'Left' was it ever alive?
However there's what promises to be a very interesting meeting this coming Saturday in London.http://thesocialistway.blogspot.com
However there's what promises to be a very interesting meeting this coming Saturday in London.http://thesocialistway.blogspot.com
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
So treelover, instead of the usual sniping, why didn't you get involved in planning the COTL and make the point that the stuff you're interested in should be on the weekend?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Are you goiing Glen? Is there an offical labour party faction going?
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
I'm at Conference so will nip out to the COTL sessions whenever there is nothing interesting happening in the hall. So, I expect to spend most of the week at COTL.
And yes, the LRC is involved with COTL.
And yes, the LRC is involved with COTL.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I'd ban you lot myself.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
I'm sure you would
Are you involved? Or are you boycotting because of the presence of us warmongering rightwing Labour members?
Are you involved? Or are you boycotting because of the presence of us warmongering rightwing Labour members?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I'm sure you would
Are you involved? Or are you boycotting because of the presence of us warmongering rightwing Labour members?
Nah, 'the left is dead' remember. If it looked like there was a susbntantial and serious group (aims/numbers/organisation) comingout of the labour party it might be worthwhile, but there isn't is there?
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
Well I'm not going to agree, am I? But thanks for clarifying your position. I don't think the majority of people at COTL think that there is "a susbntantial and serious group (aims/numbers/organisation) comingout of the labour party" but they are participating alongside us anyway.
2 Lefty election results yesterday which may or may not add anything to the debate
Glasgow Baillieston
SNP 2318
Labour Party 2167
Conservative and Unionist 259
Liberal Democrats 159
Solidarity - Tommy Sheridan 74
British National Party 73
Scottish Socialist Party 58
Green Party 45
SUP, Proudly Scottish, Proudly British 43
Leeds Farnley and Wortley Ward
Green 1183
Lib Dem 1151
Labour 1009
BNP 556
Tory 428
Allieance for Green Socialism 45
Glasgow Baillieston
SNP 2318
Labour Party 2167
Conservative and Unionist 259
Liberal Democrats 159
Solidarity - Tommy Sheridan 74
British National Party 73
Scottish Socialist Party 58
Green Party 45
SUP, Proudly Scottish, Proudly British 43
Leeds Farnley and Wortley Ward
Green 1183
Lib Dem 1151
Labour 1009
BNP 556
Tory 428
Allieance for Green Socialism 45
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
No further questions, your honour.
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