The Kiss Your Arse Goodbye Thread

[dilute micro]

As do the UK and the USA, of course.

Do what?

 

[PTK]

Both the USA and the UK kill unarmed civilians when they engage in warfare.

 

[Pickman's model]

Both the USA and the UK kill unarmed civilians when they engage in warfare.

That's not a particularly good example of whataboutery

 

[dilute micro]

Both the USA and the UK kill unarmed civilians when they engage in warfare.

That's any war anywhere by anyone. The difference here is that Russia does it intentionally, usually when their forces get bogged down, to degrade popular support or to draw some action by the government.

 

[PTK]

That's not a particularly good example of whataboutery

I am not engaging in whataboutery. I am merely pointing out that the Russian Federation is not uniquely evil.

Those of us who were horrified by events such as Bloody Sunday and the bombing of Hanoi and Baghdad are of course horrified by the atrocities perpetrated by Russian armed forces in Ukraine.

 

[PTK]

That's any war anywhere by anyone. The difference here is that Russia does it intentionally, usually when their forces get bogged down, to degrade popular support or to draw some action by the government.

So the US Air Force "accidentally" massacred that car load of women and children at that checkpoint in Iraq?
It "accidentally" carpet-bombed Hanoi?

 

[dilute micro]

So the US Air Force "accidentally" massacred that car load of women and children at that checkpoint in Iraq?
It "accidentally" carpet-bombed Hanoi?

Not the same. Going after military targets is one thing, and so is protection of your own forces. Those are much different than turning your guns onto civilians because you're not making headway on the battlefield.

 

[PTK]

Not the same. Going after military targets is one thing, and so is protection of your own forces. Those are much different than turning your guns onto civilians because you're not making headway on the battlefield.

Lest we forget:

“During Nixon's Christmas bombing, Operation Linebacker II, on 22 December 1972, over 100 American bombs struck the hospital, obliterating the building and killing 28 hospital staff members and an unconfirmed number of patients, despite most taking refuge in the hospital's basement. Almost the entire hospital was destroyed, including the operating rooms and pharmacy stock. The US military claimed that the hospital "frequently housed anti-aircraft positions."According to the director of the hospital, Đỗ Doãn Đại, the US bombing served to break the morale of hospital staff and Hanoians.”

 

[dilute micro]

Lest we forget:

“During Nixon's Christmas bombing, Operation Linebacker II, on 22 December 1972, over 100 American bombs struck the hospital, obliterating the building and killing 28 hospital staff members and an unconfirmed number of patients, despite most taking refuge in the hospital's basement. Almost the entire hospital was destroyed, including the operating rooms and pharmacy stock. The US military claimed that the hospital "frequently housed anti-aircraft positions."According to the director of the hospital, Đỗ Doãn Đại, the US bombing served to break the morale of hospital staff and Hanoians.”

What was the population of Hanoi? If targeting civilians by carpet bombing was the purpose, they could have easily done better.

 

[Brayfart]

What was the population of Hanoi? If targeting civilians by carpet bombing was the purpose, they could have easily done better.

If you're judging intent by results then the Russians have some way to go to catch up with the four million civilians slaughtered in Vietnam. Following your line of reasoning (not mine) the Russians can't be deliberately targeting civilians.

 

[phildwyer]

i just said that. don't try and be clever, it never works and you always end up with egg on your face

Ooh you fibber! You claimed the French invasion of Ireland in 1798 was the last invasion of the UK, a claim that could only be made by one entirely ignorant of British history.

 

[phildwyer]

That's any war anywhere by anyone. The difference here is that Russia does it intentionally

You are an uncritical consumer of propaganda. The Russians do not have especially brutal DNA.

 

[dilute micro]

If you're judging intent by results then the Russians have some way to go to catch up with the four million civilians slaughtered in Vietnam. Following your line of reasoning (not mine) the Russians can't be deliberately targeting civilians.

Apart from Russian soldiers' own admissions, there are many accounts of each recent conflict they've been in of them targeting civilians.

Russia’s atrocities in Ukraine, rehearsed in Chechnya

Russia committed human rights violation in Georgia war, ECHR rules

 

[Pickman's model]

Ooh you fibber! You claimed the French invasion of Ireland in 1798 was the last invasion of the UK, a claim that could only be made by one entirely ignorant of British history.

If you're so sure then I'm sure you can point to where I said it was the last invasion or indeed an invasion of the UK.

 

[phildwyer]

If you're so sure then I'm sure you can point to where I said it was the last invasion or indeed any invasion of the UK.

Sorry, I'm not going to allow you to derail another thread. Just read post 785.

 

[Ax^]

You are an uncritical consumer of propaganda. The Russians do not have especially brutal DNA.

who mentioned DNA

 

[Pickman's model]

Sorry, I'm not going to allow you to derail another thread. Just read post 785.

Not only have I read it, I wrote it, and it says nothing of what you claim. So let's leave it there before you dig yourself deeper

 

[Ax^]

Not only have I read it, I wrote it, and it says nothing of what you claim. So let's leave it there before you dig yourself deeper

oh come he not going to leave it

random YouTube video link incoming

 

[Pickman's model]

who mentioned DNA

He's seeing lots of things no one else does.

 

[phildwyer]

who mentioned DNA

Blokie up the thread reckons only the Russians deliberately target civilians.

 

[Pickman's model]

oh come he not going to leave it

random YouTube video link incoming

 

[dilute micro]

You are an uncritical consumer of propaganda. The Russians do not have especially brutal DNA.

I think this would point to a culture of or within the military and not DNA or "especially brutal" DNA as you suggested.

 

[phildwyer]

I think this would point to a culture of or within the military and not DNA or "especially brutal" DNA as you suggested.

Fair enough. But still... Hiroshima?

 

[Ax^]

Blokie up the thread reckons only the Russians deliberately target civilians.

Alright fella if you want to start having a go at me for bad grammer, try posting something that is not a link to a 12 minute fucking youtube video or a twitter thread
Where you done your own bloody research but expect other people to wade thru right wing bullshit to figure out what point you are trying to make..

 

[dilute micro]

Fair enough. But still... Hiroshima?

A point not lost on me. But I'd say attacking civilians is not the plan or equivalent to combatant vs combatant as it is for Russia.

 

[phildwyer]

Alright fella if you want to start having a go at me for bad grammer, try posting something that is not a link to a 12 minute fucking youtube video or a twitter thread
Where you done your own bloody research but expect other people to wade thru right wing bullshit to figure out what point you are trying to make..

Not taking the piss, genuinely can't understand you sometimes. I do enjoy your posts though.

 

[Ax^]

He's seeing lots of things no one else does.

Phil in his own head

how he is coming across

 

[Ax^]

Not taking the piss, genuinely can't understand you sometimes. I do enjoy your posts though.

ok now i feel kinda mean

 

[Brayfart]

Apart from Russian soldiers' own admissions, there are many accounts of each recent conflict they've been in of them targeting civilians.

Russia’s atrocities in Ukraine, rehearsed in Chechnya

Russia committed human rights violation in Georgia war, ECHR rules

I'm not denying that. You were denying that the US targeted civilians in Vietnam when there is a lot of very good evidence that they did.

 

[mojo pixy]

I have to say its nice to see us travelling back 50, 60, 80 years to find excuses for what Russia did last week