The Kiss Your Arse Goodbye Thread

[RD2003]

Two US academics think Ukraine into NATO presents unacceptable risks.

In Foreign Affairs magazine today, a hefty piece opposing Nato membership for Ukraine. It argues that the risks – which include bringing the west closing to the possibility of nuclear war with Russia – outweigh the benefits.

Justin Logan, director of defense and foreign policy studies at the Cato Institute, and Joshua Shifrinson, an associate professor at the University of Maryland’s school of public policy, write:

Admitting Ukraine to NATO would raise the prospect of a grim choice between a war with Russia and the devastating consequences involved or backing down and devaluing NATO’s security guarantee across the entire alliance. At the Vilnius summit and beyond, NATO leaders would be wise to acknowledge these facts and close the door to Ukraine.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

On Sky News now, discussing Prigozhins return to Russia, they’re showing the contents of his cupboards - gold bars and lots of wigs. And there are several from golden blonde through to brunette. How very strange. It’s odd to think of him in front of the mirror thinking ‘Who shall I be today?’

How can such scary people be so ludicrous? I mean I know that’s often the way, but isn't it curious how those who instil fear are so often the kind of person who draw mocking laughter as soon as the little man behind the curtain is revealed. It’s just one of those weird things about life.

Will he kill us all, or will we all fall about laughing before he manages?

Because they can. Who will tell them they look silly when the penalty is being thrown out of a window?

 

[Raheem]

Based on the FSB track record, the contents of Prigozhin's office may or may not be the contents of Prigozhin's office.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Based on the FSB track record, the contents of Prigozhin's office may or may not be the contents of Prigozhin's office.

Reminds me of Gareth Williams’ closet being full of dresses.

 

[RD2003]

Confusion over this one, it seems.

From the Guardian.


Manisha Ganguly
A raid on Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin’s mansion in St Petersburg by security services has revealed his possession of some interesting items. Among them was a wardrobe full of wigs, and photos of Prigozhin in various disguises wearing those wigs, which were allegedly taken from his personal album.

They include photos of the Wagner boss dressed in fatigues and a fake beard in front of flags of the Libyan National Army, whose strongman Haftar he has supported; photos of him in a keffiyeh and brown beard and wig; one of him in fatigues at what looks like a military airbase, and others.

While the images were reportedly leaked to humiliate the mercenary chief, there has been speculation that these images may have been doctored. Preliminary assessment indicates that the images circulating online were vertically photographed off a digital device or screen such as a smartphone, due to the visible rainbow pixellation.

In the photos, the level of granular details like the wrinkles on his forehead and frown lines, appear to be consistent across all the photos, with additional detailing of a pimple in one. Alongside the selfies, it is also possible to match at least one of the wigs in the photos, a dark blonde one, to the one lying in the cupboard in his mansion. The bad lighting, awkward and inconsistent selfie angles seem to suggest they might be authentic, although it is difficult to be sure.

 

[Tanya1982]

Reminds me of Gareth Williams’ closet being full of dresses.

Oh yes, the corpse who zipped himself into a small hold-all, and then put it in the bathtub, according to the coroner.

 

[Tanya1982]

Confusion over this one, it seems.

From the Guardian.


Manisha Ganguly
A raid on Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin’s mansion in St Petersburg by security services has revealed his possession of some interesting items. Among them was a wardrobe full of wigs, and photos of Prigozhin in various disguises wearing those wigs, which were allegedly taken from his personal album.

They include photos of the Wagner boss dressed in fatigues and a fake beard in front of flags of the Libyan National Army, whose strongman Haftar he has supported; photos of him in a keffiyeh and brown beard and wig; one of him in fatigues at what looks like a military airbase, and others.

While the images were reportedly leaked to humiliate the mercenary chief, there has been speculation that these images may have been doctored. Preliminary assessment indicates that the images circulating online were vertically photographed off a digital device or screen such as a smartphone, due to the visible rainbow pixellation.

In the photos, the level of granular details like the wrinkles on his forehead and frown lines, appear to be consistent across all the photos, with additional detailing of a pimple in one. Alongside the selfies, it is also possible to match at least one of the wigs in the photos, a dark blonde one, to the one lying in the cupboard in his mansion. The bad lighting, awkward and inconsistent selfie angles seem to suggest they might be authentic, although it is difficult to be sure.

Possible that he just likes fancy dress parties. Who hasn’t considered going to one as Colonel Gaddafi?

 

[RD2003]

Belongs in the main thread really, but... From the Guardian.

Cambodia urges Ukraine not to use cluster bombs​

Cambodia’s prime minister, Hun Sen, has urged Ukraine not to use cluster bombs, adding the “real victims will be Ukrainians”.

Hun Sen tweeted:

It would be the greatest danger for Ukrainians for many years or up to a hundred years if cluster bombs are used in Russian-occupied areas in the territory of Ukraine.

He cited Cambodia’s “painful experience” of US cluster munitions dropped in the early 1970s, a foreign legacy that has left tens of thousands maimed or killed, Agence France-Presse reported.

He added:

It has been more than half a century. There have been no means to destroy them all yet.
As my pity for the Ukrainian people, I appeal to the US president as the supplier and the Ukrainian president as the recipient not to use cluster bombs in the war because the real victims will be Ukrainians.

 

[Tanya1982]

Belongs in the main thread really, but... From the Guardian.

Cambodia urges Ukraine not to use cluster bombs​

Cambodia’s prime minister, Hun Sen, has urged Ukraine not to use cluster bombs, adding the “real victims will be Ukrainians”.

Hun Sen tweeted:


He cited Cambodia’s “painful experience” of US cluster munitions dropped in the early 1970s, a foreign legacy that has left tens of thousands maimed or killed, Agence France-Presse reported.

He added:

It’s not just Ukraine that needs to be told though, so it seems like a wood for the trees situation to single them out.

 

[RD2003]

It’s not just Ukraine that needs to be told though, so it seems like a wood for the trees situation to single them out.

Don't think anybody said it was. The Cambodian PM was just pointing out from bitter experience the problem being stored up for the future, and how adding it it won't help.

 

[Tanya1982]

Don't think anybody said it was. The Cambodian PM was just pointing out from bitter experience the problem being stored up for the future, and how adding it it won't help.

Well he kind of was, by singling them out for a warning.

 

[RD2003]

'Sullivan echoed the sentiments of his fellow Republican Murkowski, saying: “The incursion by 11 Chinese and Russian warships operating together – off the coast of Alaska – is yet another reminder that we have entered a new era of authoritarian aggression led by the dictators in Beijing and Moscow.” '

Said, presumably with a straight face, by a self-serving representative of a power that has routinely sent troops all around the world to indulge in wars of aggression, and whose political system is increasingly exposed as authoritarianism in disguise.

US dispatches warships after China and Russia send naval patrol near Alaska

Combined naval patrol appeared to be largest such flotilla to approach US territory and ‘highly provocative’, expert says

www.theguardian.com

 

[Magnus McGinty]

'Sullivan echoed the sentiments of his fellow Republican Murkowski, saying: “The incursion by 11 Chinese and Russian warships operating together – off the coast of Alaska – is yet another reminder that we have entered a new era of authoritarian aggression led by the dictators in Beijing and Moscow.” '

Said, presumably with a straight face, by a self-serving representative of a power that has routinely sent troops all around the world to indulge in wars of aggression, and whose political system is increasingly exposed as authoritarianism in disguise.

US dispatches warships after China and Russia send naval patrol near Alaska

Combined naval patrol appeared to be largest such flotilla to approach US territory and ‘highly provocative’, expert says

www.theguardian.com

As distasteful that neo-liberal or neo-con govts are, you don’t get disappeared for expressing unacceptable opinions.

 

[RD2003]

As distasteful that neo-liberal or neo-con govts are, you don’t get disappeared for expressing unacceptable opinions.

And this has got what, exactly, to do with the fact that they wage wars across the world whenever they deem it necessary?

And who has been 'disappeared' in Russia? Some might have been, but what you generally hear about is imprisonment either of people whose profile is quite high internationally, or else is kept in the spotlight by foreign media. There's quite a contrast between today's Russia, bad as it may be, and, say, Argentina, where many thousands actually were 'disappeared' by governements backed and armed by western powers. Or Chile, where they endorsed the naked mass terror of the Pinochet regime.

 

[Pickman's model]

And this has got what, exactly, to do with the fact that they wage wars across the world whenever they deem it necessary?

And who has been 'disappeared' in Russia? Some might have been, but what you generally hear about is imprisonment either of people whose profile is quite high internationally, or else is kept in the spotlight by foreign media. There's quite a contrast between today's Russia, bad as it may be, and, say, Argentina, where many thousands actually were 'disappeared' by governements backed and armed by western powers. Or Chile, where they endorsed the naked mass terror of the Pinochet regime.

Well there's thousands of children from Ukraine no one knows where they are (obvs the russians do) and lots of other people from the russian occupied areas, it's been widely reported. Surprised you haven't seen it - or did you turn a nelsonian eye?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

And this has got what, exactly, to do with the fact that they wage wars across the world whenever they deem it necessary?

And who has been 'disappeared' in Russia? Some might have been, but what you generally hear about is imprisonment either of people whose profile is quite high internationally, or else is kept in the spotlight by foreign media. There's quite a contrast between today's Russia, bad as it may be, and, say, Argentina, where many thousands actually were 'disappeared' by governements backed and armed by western powers. Or Chile, where they endorsed the naked mass terror of the Pinochet regime.

Good point actually I think death is preferable to a labour camp. The rest is a weird comparison because I haven’t supported any war instigated by America. I think their foreign policies are Cuntish.

 

[RD2003]

Well there's thousands of children from Ukraine no one knows where they are (obvs the russians do) and lots of other people from the russian occupied areas, it's been widely reported. Surprised you haven't seen it - or did you turn a nelsonian eye?

I know about it, yes, but I doubt if any of them have been thrown from military helicopters into the sea like Argentinian trade unionists in the late 1970s.

 

[bluescreen]

And this has got what, exactly, to do with the fact that they wage wars across the world whenever they deem it necessary?

And who has been 'disappeared' in Russia? Some might have been, but what you generally hear about is imprisonment either of people whose profile is quite high internationally, or else is kept in the spotlight by foreign media. There's quite a contrast between today's Russia, bad as it may be, and, say, Argentina, where many thousands actually were 'disappeared' by governements backed and armed by western powers. Or Chile, where they endorsed the naked mass terror of the Pinochet regime.

When the pot calls the kettle black, it doesn't mean the kettle isn't black.
Seems as if you just want to throw your hands up and say 'They are all awful, what can you do!'
- or actually saying: 'There's quite a contrast between today's Russia, bad as it may be' - invading, torturing, stealing children (who are real people), bombing hospitals, committing cultural genocide - and all those awful things that western powers (as far as I know) aren't actually doing at the moment.

 

[Pickman's model]

I know about it, yes, but I doubt if any of them have been thrown from military helicopters into the sea like Argentinian trade unionists in the late 1970s.⁸

I didn't know there was only one acceptable way to disappear people

 

[RD2003]

When the pot calls the kettle black, it doesn't mean the kettle isn't black.
Seems as if you just want to throw your hands up and say 'They are all awful, what can you do!'
- or actually saying: 'There's quite a contrast between today's Russia, bad as it may be' - invading, torturing, stealing children (who are real people), bombing hospitals, committing cultural genocide - and all those awful things that western powers (as far as I know) aren't actually doing at the moment.

The current discussion has diverged quickly from a point made about the cobblers espoused by some Republican twat about supposed authoritarian aggression against the US while ignoring that it's what the US itself routinely indulges in, into something broader. In response to this, I haven't claimed that Russia's actions in Ukraine aren't barbaric but contrasted contemporary society within Russia to such places as Argentina under the western-backed junta. I don't see that it matters what the western powers are doing at present when their feigned horror at Putin and co ignores their past record regarding much of the world. And where was the horror and condemnation when Russian society was in meltdown, with far more political and other high-profile murders, under their poodle Yeltsin?

 

[RD2003]

I didn't know there was only one acceptable way to disappear people

The point being that nothing comparable to junta-ruled Argentina or Pinochet's Chile is at present happening within Russia, and that Senator twathead, in pretending concern about authoritarianism exposes his hypocrisy (or else ignorance of his own country's foreign policy record.)

 

[bluescreen]

The current discussion has diverged quickly from a point made about the cobblers espoused by some Republican twat about supposed authoritarian aggression against the US while ignoring that it's what the US itself routinely indulges in, into something broader. In response to this, I haven't claimed that Russia's actions in Ukraine aren't barbaric but contrasted contemporary society within Russia to such places as Argentina under the western-backed junta. I don't see that it matters what the western powers are doing at present when their feigned horror at Putin and co ignores their past record regarding much of the world. And where was the horror and condemnation when Russian society was in meltdown, with far more political and other high-profile murders, under their poodle Yeltsin?

So you acknowledge the whataboutery?

Next!

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I didn't know there was only one acceptable way to disappear people

Paul Daniels was heavily employed by a number if regimes.

 

[RD2003]

So you acknowledge the whataboutery?

Next!

One of the big contemporary myths is that there's something wrong with so-called 'whataboutery.' Never forget the hypocrisy of our rulers, and never forgive it either.

 

[bluescreen]

One of the big contemporary myths is that there's something wrong with so-called 'whataboutery.' Never forget the hypocruisy of our rulers, and never forgive it either.

You assume people are ignorant of hypocrisy. As if.
Talking about it (on this thread) = Oh, look, a squirrel!
Sigh.
Can we please get back to talking about what Russia is up to?
Or do you have something about what the evil west is up to that we don't already know about?

 

[RD2003]

You assume people are ignorant of hypocrisy. As if.
Talking about it (on this thread) = Oh, look, a squirrel!
Sigh.
Can we please get back to talking about what Russia is up to?
Or do you have something about what the evil west is up to that we don't already know about?

Not that they are ignorant of it, but that they choose to ignore it when it suits them. There are loads of other threads on which people can wring their hands about Russia. This is one of those where there's also room for broader, if related, issues.

 

[bluescreen]

Not that they are ignorant of it, but that they choose to ignore it when it suits them. There are loads of other threads on which people can wring their hands about Russia. This is one of those where there's also room for broader, if related, issues.

Thank you. I stand correctly corrected.

 

[Dystopiary]

.

 

[Pickman's model]

The point being that nothing comparable to junta-ruled Argentina or Pinochet's Chile is at present happening within Russia, and that Senator twathead, in pretending concern about authoritarianism exposes his hypocrisy (or else ignorance of his own country's foreign policy record.)

It is for Russia within russia

 

[RD2003]

Russia says Sarmat intercontinental missiles put on combat duty - reports​

The head of Russia’s space agency Roscosmos said on Friday that the country’s Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missiles, which are capable of carrying ten or more nuclear warheads, had been put on combat duty, state news agency RIA reported.

In June, Vladimir Putin said that Sarmat missiles would be deployed for combat duty “soon”.

Putin has repeatedly said since the start of the war in Ukraine that Russia is ready to use all means, including nuclear weapons, to defend its “territorial integrity”.

Last year, the Russian president said he was placing territories seized in Ukraine – that Russia now claims as its own – under Moscow’s nuclear umbrella. But he has also said Russia has no need to resort to using nuclear weapons.