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The Idle Rich

Rimbaud

Well-Known Member
Not really sure where to post this, but I think it's a topic worth investigating, primarily because of how little is documented about it.

I've been thinking about this a lot after reading this article in the Financial Times - Subscribe to read | Financial Times - about how inheritance is becoming once again the primary source of wealth, and makes reference to the poor "middle class" who feel emotionally adrift and directionless because jobs pay so little compared to property wealth that they can't motivate themselves to work.

I've known a handful of wealthy people throughout my life, and I've slowly come to the realisation that there are huge numbers of idle rich in the UK who primarily make money from property and live off inheritance - but they seem to be aware this is quite shameful and don't advertise it so it doesn't seem to be widely known. They also conceal it by pretending some hobby or pet project is their job; like working as a DJ or artist or something and pretending like that is your actual source of income, or running some vanity project business which may or may not actually turn a profit.

I wonder if there is any book written investigating this phenomenon in detail? Or what kind of methodology could you use to research it?

I'm also interested in what it says about the possible decline of the bourgeoisie as a social class. Like the example in the FT, the ESL fiasco was mostly spearheaded by heirs who inherited their positions and were therefore too incompetent to do proper market research. With the exception of new tech industries which still produce talented capitalists, most established industries seem to be dominated by heirs of limited ability.

Could we soon reach a point where even highly qualified professional jobs do not earn enough to get onto the property ladder, so you have a scenario of a society of highly skilled and highly educated proletarians on one hand, and entitled and incompetent idle rich heirs on the other? Seems to me like the enterprising and skilled bourgeoisie succeeded in overthrowing the idle and entitled aristocratic landowning class due to similar conditions.

If this is the direction we are going in, then building a class consciousness based on pride in productive and skilled work in contrast to the idle rich seems like a good approach for socialists to take, but this can't happen unless a spotlight is put onto the idle rich, who thus far seem to have been successful in disguising their lifestyles and evading entry into public consciousness.

It seems like there is very little known about how many idle rich there are or any statistics about inheritance, so I wanted to make this thread as a place to compile information about it and keep it in one place.
 
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Theres a lot written about the collapse of the middle class, books and articles.

this is from 2013, short, and well worth a read
some chat on it here

I think there's increasing focus on "rentiers" <its already happening to some extent. Though agree, good angle for raising class consciousness.
 
Rimbaud have you read The Theory of the Leisure Class (1899), by Thorstein Veblen?
Theres a lot written about the collapse of the middle class, books and articles.

this is from 2013, short, and well worth a read
some chat on it here

I think there's increasing focus on "rentiers" <its already happening to some extent. Though agree, good angle for raising class consciousness.
Also Squeezed Middle Watch
 
Could we soon reach a point where even highly qualified professional jobs do not earn enough to get onto the property ladder, so you have a scenario of a society of highly skilled and highly educated proletarians on one hand, and entitled and incompetent idle rich heirs on the other? Seems to me like the enterprising and skilled bourgeoisie succeeded in overthrowing the idle and entitled aristocratic landowning class due to similar conditions.
I reckon some highly qualified professional jobs do not pay all that well because there is a significant number of people doing them who have other sources of income (or have low living costs because they own property and don't have to pay rent). These people don't need to worry about getting on the property ladder. These are jobs that a lot of people would like to do, in other words the kinds of jobs that are chosen because you want to do that kind of work rather than because of the money. The same sorts of jobs which in the past have become known as notorious for unpaid internships and so on. So if you want to do that job, you are competing with other people that don't really need to make a lot of money from doing it, even if it's a highly skilled/qualified one.

There's another strand of highly qualified jobs which are the kind that most people only want to do if they can earn well from them, and wages for those will (and I'd say already do) follow a very different course.
 
Could we soon reach a point where even highly qualified professional jobs do not earn enough to get onto the property ladder, so you have a scenario of a society of highly skilled and highly educated proletarians on one hand, and entitled and incompetent idle rich heirs on the other?

I'd say that for those without a lump sum deposit from somewhere we're already at this point. Particularly in areas where living costs are so high that an early career teacher or nurse is never going to be able to save enough for a deposit while also paying rent.
 
I'd say that for those without a lump sum deposit from somewhere we're already at this point. Particularly in areas where living costs are so high that an early career teacher or nurse is never going to be able to save enough for a deposit while also paying rent.

I'm not sure I'd even qualify this with an "I'd say...". After running some numbers with a friend, similarly middle-class to myself and also in a position not to have been badly affected by brexit or the pandemic, it swiftly became clear that he didn't currently earn the coin required to buy the house he bought ten years ago, even if he doubled his original deposit from 50k to 100k. Similar for me; if I wanted to buy something like a 3 bed terrace it's around 650k around these parts, assuming I had somehow saved up 150k for a deposit, I'd still need to be earning at least ~£100,000 to be eligible for a mortgage. I don't think this is something even 10% of Londoners could expect to achieve.

Entirely probable that London's insane property market has skewed perspectives but I'd say over the last 20yrs a mortgage here has become inaccessible for all members of the working classes and only the higher paid echelons of the middle classes (and only then in certain areas). Government policy seems to be to prop up the housing market at any cost, I guess because there's now so much private equity and investment riding on it. Something's got to give, and in my limited understanding it's either a collapse in house prices (and associated recession from collapsed investments as well as the ensuing thousands of people in negative equity) or an even higher concentration of property in to the private markets, free to demand rental ransoms wherever necessary to maintain shareholder value.
 
I'd say that for those without a lump sum deposit from somewhere we're already at this point. Particularly in areas where living costs are so high that an early career teacher or nurse is never going to be able to save enough for a deposit while also paying rent.
More likely to struggle in the last two weeks of the month to pay for transport and food with nothing left to save.
 
Just watching the red bull soapbox and it’s seems to be populated by numerous idler teams

Likewise all the cannon ball rally bullshit stuff
 
I think there are a lot of relatively small scale landlords who don't think of themselves as 'idle rich' but maybe have a buy-to-let property as their pension (I have only a hazy idea how this works, never having earnt enough until very recently to pay into a pension, let alone save for a deposit) - or as the backup that allows them to take fulfilling lower paid work.

This thread seems like a good place to post this article - how did we get to a point where even very gently dissuading people from hoarding more than five properties they aren't actually living in, would seem radical to a lot of people?
Landlord power is not just bad for tenants. It harms homeowners, too | David Renton
 
Not really sure where to post this, but I think it's a topic worth investigating, primarily because of how little is documented about it.

I've been thinking about this a lot after reading this article in the Financial Times - Subscribe to read | Financial Times - about how inheritance is becoming once again the primary source of wealth, and makes reference to the poor "middle class" who feel emotionally adrift and directionless because jobs pay so little compared to property wealth that they can't motivate themselves to work.

I've known a handful of wealthy people throughout my life, and I've slowly come to the realisation that there are huge numbers of idle rich in the UK who primarily make money from property and live off inheritance - but they seem to be aware this is quite shameful and don't advertise it so it doesn't seem to be widely known. They also conceal it by pretending some hobby or pet project is their job; like working as a DJ or artist or something and pretending like that is your actual source of income, or running some vanity project business which may or may not actually turn a profit.

I wonder if there is any book written investigating this phenomenon in detail? Or what kind of methodology could you use to research it?

I'm also interested in what it says about the possible decline of the bourgeoisie as a social class. Like the example in the FT, the ESL fiasco was mostly spearheaded by heirs who inherited their positions and were therefore too incompetent to do proper market research. With the exception of new tech industries which still produce talented capitalists, most established industries seem to be dominated by heirs of limited ability.

Could we soon reach a point where even highly qualified professional jobs do not earn enough to get onto the property ladder, so you have a scenario of a society of highly skilled and highly educated proletarians on one hand, and entitled and incompetent idle rich heirs on the other? Seems to me like the enterprising and skilled bourgeoisie succeeded in overthrowing the idle and entitled aristocratic landowning class due to similar conditions.

If this is the direction we are going in, then building a class consciousness based on pride in productive and skilled work in contrast to the idle rich seems like a good approach for socialists to take, but this can't happen unless a spotlight is put onto the idle rich, who thus far seem to have been successful in disguising their lifestyles and evading entry into public consciousness.

It seems like there is very little known about how many idle rich there are or any statistics about inheritance, so I wanted to make this thread as a place to compile information about it and keep it in one place.

I’m all for people having more knowledge of this and I think some would be genuinely surprised at the extraordinary wealth some have.

Whether that is something that cuts through outside of the electoral space, maybe. Within it seems unlikely. Sure those who already feel it’s unfair will feel rage when they find the wealth and idleness is exponentially larger than they thought, but many other people seem have a perverse pride in avoiding being seen as jealous. I’ve had rows with people who will tell me that people on benefits shouldn’t have large families or should be condemned for it, but won’t condemn Rees-Mogg or Johnson for the same because they ‘can afford it’ or sort of in Johnson’s case. Their rights are unquestioned. I don’t think it’s my business either way, but the hypocrisy is.

Some people seem to draw a line between being disadvantaged politically, so resenting Labour, quite reasonably, for presiding over decay, but not Tim Nice But Dim who funds the Tories. There’s an acceptance in this Country that poshos and their lifestyles are just part of the fabric like the White Cliffs.

But that’s not to say it isn’t a valuable place to look. I wonder what the pamphlet Written in Blood would look like revised.
 
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