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The Green Party has some serious questions to answer

crossthebreeze said:
Except none of that has anything to do with getting off on symbols of being an infant or child or teenager any more than vanilla sex, whereas getting off on school uniforms or nappies does.
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This is interesting because you're right, these things are symbolic of having sex with children, or possibly symbolic anyway.

But you're also wrong when you say that a school uniform fetish is different in some way from 'vanilla' sex aren't you really? Because the school uniform thing is actually an incredibly mainstream and 'vanilla' sexual trope isn't it? Not just in pornography or in peoples sex lives but in films, music, the media and in society in general, young girls well under the age of consent are routinely sexualised every day and it's ingrained in our culture. So it often isn't considered as perverse or unusual or weird or whatever. I'm not saying that's not fucked up, you're right, it is. I feel sure that well before I first had sex as a teenager I'd seen porn featuring women dressed in school uniform at least ten years older than I would have been at the time. That's not normal is it? But on the other hand it is normal because you could probably say that about the vast majority of teenage boys, especially in the internet age.

I think in general, it's probably better to think about why it is we live in a world that sexualises children routinely in the mainstream than rage against an individual because you think their particular interest (not even necessarily sexual to them, just what they like to do) is somehow proof that they must be an abuser or potential abuser without any evidence that they have committed an act of abuse or that they intend to.
 
SpackleFrog said:
But you're also wrong when you say that a school uniform fetish is different in some way from 'vanilla' sex aren't you really? Because the school uniform thing is actually an incredibly mainstream and 'vanilla' sexual trope isn't it? Not just in pornography or in peoples sex lives but in films, music, the media and in society in general...
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I think the school uniform thing gets an easy pass because while it has dodgy roots for many, for at least as many it's a callback to formative sexual experiences - that sense of excitement, terror and a tinge of transgression mixed together*. Which is why you see it so much involving clearly adult women in the uniforms (as opposed to adult women who look of plausibly school age). It's also part of why those school disco club nights were so popular some years back (I'm a little out of the loop, so maybe they're popular again right now).

* - I was a late bloomer, so for me it's women in DM's and combats. :oops:
 
SpackleFrog said:
This is interesting because you're right, these things are symbolic of having sex with children, or possibly symbolic anyway.

But you're also wrong when you say that a school uniform fetish is different in some way from 'vanilla' sex aren't you really? Because the school uniform thing is actually an incredibly mainstream and 'vanilla' sexual trope isn't it? Not just in pornography or in peoples sex lives but in films, music, the media and in society in general, young girls well under the age of consent are routinely sexualised every day and it's ingrained in our culture. So it often isn't considered as perverse or unusual or weird or whatever. I'm not saying that's not fucked up, you're right, it is. I feel sure that well before I first had sex as a teenager I'd seen porn featuring women dressed in school uniform at least ten years older than I would have been at the time. That's not normal is it? But on the other hand it is normal because you could probably say that about the vast majority of teenage boys, especially in the internet age.

I think in general, it's probably better to think about why it is we live in a world that sexualises children routinely in the mainstream than rage against an individual because you think their particular interest (not even necessarily sexual to them, just what they like to do) is somehow proof that they must be an abuser or potential abuser without any evidence that they have committed an act of abuse or that they intend to.
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all of which rather ignores the who - a School teacher getting their rocks off on fucking people in school uniform is a very different thing to a bricklayer getting his rocks off fucking people in school uniform, a nurse who gets their rocks off giving handjobs to people pretending to be in a coma is very different to a surveyor getting his rocks off giving handjobs to people pretending to be in a coma, a nursery nurse who gets their rocks off fucking people wearing nappies is very different to a civil servant in the DVLA with no kids and no access to kids getting their rocks off fucking people in nappies.

its about access and influence/authority.
 
I've always found the school uniform thing a bit suss (though I get what 8ball says above). I remember saying it on here to an urb who was slavering away at the thought and I got the proper rolly eye treatment.

Then again I'm not really into this whole dressing up / sex cosplay kind of thing. A mate's g/f had brought a nurses uniform and was excitedly telling me about it when I pointed out that my mum was a nurse and all I remember was her coming home after a shift, utterly exhausted and her uniform covered it stains from whatever after a shift spent cleaning up whatever.

What I will say though is I find the adult baby stuff and Brony stuff proper weird and creepy. If someone mentioned to me that they were into that sort of thing and I had a child with me I'd definitely hold the child's hand a little tighter. I respect the right for consenting adults to do what they like in private but I also have the right to find it weird and creepy.
 
kebabking said:
all of which rather ignores the who - a School teacher getting their rocks off on fucking people in school uniform is a very different thing to a bricklayer getting his rocks off fucking people in school uniform, a nurse who gets their rocks off giving handjobs to people pretending to be in a coma is very different to a surveyor getting his rocks off giving handjobs to people pretending to be in a coma, a nursery nurse who gets their rocks off fucking people wearing nappies is very different to a civil servant in the DVLA with no kids and no access to kids getting their rocks off fucking people in nappies.

its about access and influence/authority.
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It's also about evidence, though. If you're going to start seeking to deny people certain jobs because of their kinky sex preferences, you need to have some kind of evidence that people with kinky sex preferences who actively act those preferences out in private represent a heightened risk. Otherwise you're just acting on your own prejudice/gut disgust reaction. The danger is that you miss the apparently straight-laced types who attend church three times a week and get the official nod of approval, but are in fact suppressing their kinks in a way that does make them a heightened risk. You're in danger of demonising the wrong people.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
It's also about evidence, though. If you're going to start seeking to deny people certain jobs because of their kinky sex preferences, you need to have some kind of evidence that people with kinky sex preferences who actively act those preferences out in private represent a heightened risk. Otherwise you're just acting on your own prejudice/gut disgust reaction. The danger is that you miss the apparently straight-laced types who attend church three times a week and get the official nod of approval, but are in fact suppressing their kinks in a way that does make them a heightened risk. You're in danger of demonising the wrong people.
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anyone who attends church three times a week should be denied the official nod of approval as they're obviously a wrong un
 
Teaboy said:
Then again I'm not really into this whole dressing up / sex cosplay kind of thing. A mate's g/f had brought a nurses uniform and was excitedly telling me about it when I pointed out that my mum was a nurse and all I remember was her coming home after a shift, utterly exhausted and her uniform covered it stains from whatever after a shift spent cleaning up whatever.
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Having had quite a few surgeries and other procedures and spending a long time in hospital, I can't think of anything more likely to provoke mini-8ball into defensive deflation than a nurse's uniform. :eek:
 
The obvious counterexample here of a group of people who on the surface are not supposed to have any kind of sex life, kinky or otherwise, is Catholic priests. Suppressed sexuality is the greater danger, no?

I'd also wonder, does anyone have a completely 'kink-free' sexuality? I doubt it. What would that even look like?
 
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littlebabyjesus said:
The obvious counterexample here of a group of people who on the surface are not supposed to have any kind of sex life, kinky or otherwise, is Catholic priests. Suppressed sexuality is the greater danger, no?
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i don't know where you get the notion catholic priests' sexuality is suppressed from.
 
8ball said:
Extreme niche vanilla forum ------------------------------------->
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Thing is I think there is some extraordinary rubbish written about sexuality by people who should know better. On a previous trans thread this guy Blanchard was linked to, and he banged on about 'correct' sexual direction, which basically involved a man being turned on by a vagina and a woman by a penis. It was absurd, and from a so-called 'sexologist' who made his living theorising about this stuff. I am a heterosexual man turned on by among other things vaginas, but my sexual awakening happened years before I'd even seen one, let alone got close to one, and all kinds of things that make up our adult sexuality began right back when we started becoming dimly aware of our sexual urges, at which point all kinds of things can come into play 'symbolising' sex, commonly clothing of various kinds - cos things like vaginas and penises are hidden by clothing. But within a healthily 'kinky' sexuality, there is a sharp barrier between the sexual fantasy and real life, which is never crossed.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Thing is I think there is some extraordinary rubbish written about sexuality by people who should know better. On a previous trans thread this guy Blanchard was linked to, and he banged on about 'correct' sexual direction, which basically involved a man being turned on by a vagina and a woman by a penis.
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I was under the impression a good many women (correctly) thought penises looked ridiculous.
 
8ball said:
Extreme niche vanilla forum ------------------------------------->
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If you can think of it, someone's into it. I bet there are people out there who get really turned on by the thought of short, awkward bouts of fully clothed missionary sex in the dark.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
I'd also wonder, does anyone have a completely 'kink-free' sexuality? I doubt it. What would that even look like?
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Depends how you define kink. Dictionary definition is an 'unusual' sexual preference so liking big tits/big cocks or sexy underwear doesn't really count.
 
maomao said:
Depends how you define kink. Dictionary definition is an 'unusual' sexual preference so liking big tits/big cocks or sexy underwear doesn't really count.
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That's a circular argument though. Why would underwear be sexy? That's a paraphilic kink right there, just a socially acceptable one (in certain societies). Presumably within a society that is extremely suppressive of sexuality, in which sex is supposed only to happen through a hole in a sheet, 'sexy underwear' would be a disgraceful perversion.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
That's a circular argument though. Why would underwear be sexy? That's a paraphilic kink right there, just a socially acceptable one (in certain societies). Presumably within a society that is extremely suppressive of sexuality, in which sex is supposed only to happen through a hole in a sheet, 'sexy underwear' would be a disgraceful perversion.
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Ooh - that's sparked a memory of a drunken conversation. Something about girls at a mate's kids' school being told off for exposing their ankles...
 
littlebabyjesus said:
That's a circular argument though. Why would underwear be sexy? That's a paraphilic kink right there, just a socially acceptable one (in certain societies). Presumably within a society that is extremely suppressive of sexuality, in which sex is supposed only to happen through a hole in a sheet, 'sexy underwear' would be a disgraceful perversion.
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no it wouldn't
 
Pickman's model said:
no it wouldn't
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Wasn't that exactly the case for a particular religious group at some point (my memory is fuzzy on this)?

Well, not a hole in a sheet, but it was something along those lines - I'm thinking of some Christian offshoot cult in the States or something like that.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
That's a circular argument though. Why would underwear be sexy? That's a paraphilic kink right there, just a socially acceptable one (in certain societies). Presumably within a society that is extremely suppressive of sexuality, in which sex is supposed only to happen through a hole in a sheet, 'sexy underwear' would be a disgraceful perversion.
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Well surely if the definition includes 'unusual' a kink can only be defined in terms of the society it exists in and socially acceptable turn ons don't count.
 
8ball said:
I think the school uniform thing gets an easy pass because while it has dodgy roots for many, for at least as many it's a callback to formative sexual experiences - that sense of excitement, terror and a tinge of transgression mixed together*. Which is why you see it so much involving clearly adult women in the uniforms (as opposed to adult women who look of plausibly school age). It's also part of why those school disco club nights were so popular some years back (I'm a little out of the loop, so maybe they're popular again right now).

* - I was a late bloomer, so for me it's women in DM's and combats. :oops:
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But that's my point. You can't say that someone who fantasises about having sex, perhaps even rough or violent sex, with a young underage girl gets a pass but someone who enjoys wearing a nappy and literally sitting around in their own shit is to be treated as suspicious and potentially dangerous to others. And I take the point, I think there probably is some element of formative sexual experience type thing there that plays a role but when you have tabloid newspapers aggressively sexualising young girls on a daily basis in order to sell more copies then there is also something pretty dark going on there around the commodification of young girls bodies and that has implications for everybody who grows up and goes through those formative sexual experiences because that's the world we exist in.

I think what I'm probably trying to say is that if any one of us was subjected to an in depth analysis of our sexuality then that would probably reveal a few weird/odd home truths for us all to deal with and we don't really understand human sexuality very well because we've spent the vast majority of human history actively repressing it. So for now, lets keep the focus purely on consent and the idea that the key dividing line in any kind of sexual activity is whether it involves people who consent to what they're doing and are old enough to consent. The rest, it's probably not worth bothering your head too much with, particularly when we live in a world where societies understanding of consent is often shakey or non existent.
 
Pickman's model said:
ah, you refer to the famous urban myth about orthodox jews.

it's a myth.
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I'd never heard it about Jews - I always thought it was something like some kind of Puritan offshoot in the States.

edit: It possibly dates back to the days when we used to talk shit in the pubs and didn't have the technology to instantly check facts.
 
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