The Generic Tennis Thread

[Lord Camomile]

Broadcasters have helped fuck up prettymuch every sport they get involved in without giving a flying fuck about sports peoples mental or physical health. Fuck them.

Also, this. See sport, see music, see film, television, art of any kind, really... If something becomes successful enough on its own merits, people with capital come in to exploit that success for their own gain, and act purely in the interests of making the most money rather than what is good for the sport/art itself.

And sadly, a lot of us have inherited/absorbed the idea that that's what success looks like. More.

This whole attitude was distilled in, I think, the comments of the Madrid owner when the ESL was still a thing: they viewed success as getting more people watching the sport, rather than caring what the people who already watched the sport, who gave it life in the first place, wanted.

 

[oryx]

Simply disagree. If you took away all the broadcasting and sponsorship money, athletes lives would be very different, absolutely, but they could still make money off their talent.

How would they make money? Tournaments rely on the sponsorship and broadcasting money to survive. Look at the number of tournaments that have gone to the wall since the pandemic.

 

[oryx]

Also, this. See sport, see music, see film, television, art of any kind, really... If something becomes successful enough on its own merits, people with capital come in to exploit that success for their own gain, and act purely in the interests of making the most money rather than what is good for the sport/art itself.

And sadly, a lot of us have inherited/absorbed the idea that that's what success looks like. More.

I don't think that's a good thing at all BTW - and that applies possibly even more to football.

 

[Lord Camomile]

How would they make money? Tournaments rely on the sponsorship and broadcasting money to survive. Look at the number of tournaments that have gone to the wall since the pandemic.

How do buskers make money? How does any sporting endeavour that isn't broadcast on international TV make money?

"Hey, we're doing this thing, give us some money and we'll let you watch"
"Ah, cool, I like watching you do this thing, so I will pay in order to do so"

Ta-da!

And no, they wouldn't be earning millions, but they would be earning something.

Meanwhile, from the broadcasters side:

"Hey, we haven't got anything to show you, but will you pay to watch it?"
"Pay to watch what?"
"Um... but will you pay, though?

 

[Lord Camomile]

I don't think that's a good thing at all BTW - and that applies possibly even more to football.

Oh, absolutely it does, arguably one of the worst offenders, depending on which way you wanna slice it.

<edit: and just to be clear, that wasn't directed at anyone in particular and I purposely meant "us" - I can be just as guilty of falling into that "success = more" trap as anyone else, because I've been marinating in that culture for almost 37 years>

 

[oryx]

How do buskers make money? How does any sporting endeavour that isn't broadcast on international TV make money?

They mostly make a pittance, I guess - I'm wildly surmising that most buskers have another income such as a student loan or other job. Look at the financial trouble a lot of smaller football clubs are in.

Again, I don't like it that it's gone that way. I could say a lot about how smaller football clubs have to sell top players to survive, which lessens their chance of success. It's a shitshow, but in the context of that shitshow I don't think Osaka is taking a brave and principled stand - I think the way she's gone about it suggests it's all about her.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Most sport would cease to exist if the broadcasters pulled out tomorrow.

No it wouldn't. I think there is a point here about how massively rich various sports people can become now, but the tournaments existed before tv, and sport can function perfectly well without the advertising money. It would just be a very different set up, one in which the elite players don't get rich.

 

[Lord Camomile]

They mostly make a pittance, I guess - I'm wildly surmising that most buskers have another income such as a student loan or other job. Look at the financial trouble a lot of smaller football clubs are in.

Oh, sure, it's not ideal, far from it, I was just trying to make explicit who was bringing what to the table and who needs who more.

Without broadcasters, sports may well have a pittance, but without sport, what have broadcasters got at all? (Yes, sure, someone somewhere had the original capital to start broadcasting, but broadcasting as a concept couldn't exist without something to broadcast existing first)

in the context of that shitshow I don't think Osaka is taking a brave and principled stand - I think the way she's gone about it suggests it's all about her.

So, again, I started off addressing the wider question of the relationship between athletes and broadcasters, and honestly don't know a whole lot about the specifics of Osaka's protest, but for now at least I do believe she is genuine in her efforts, and even if it isn't the best manifestation of it (again, honestly can't judge either way) I think she deserves credit for at least trying.

For you, what would a more brave and principled stand look like, and what way could she have gone about it to make it appear less about her?

Not a "go on then!" challenge, a genuine curiosity to understand what you think is missing in this instance.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Naomi Osaka withdraws from French Open & reveals 'bouts of depression'

Naomi Osaka withdraws from the French Open after refusing to speak to the media, while revealing she has suffered from "bouts of depression".

www.bbc.co.uk

Well, looks like she's backing up her beliefs!

 

[MrSki]

Osaka has withdrawn from the tournament.

 

[Lord Camomile]

 

[Jay Park]

Most sport would cease to exist if the broadcasters pulled out tomorrow.

no they wouldn't

 

[Steel Icarus]

View attachment 271203

View attachment 271205

I think that's really sad.

 

[oryx]

For you, what would a more brave and principled stand look like, and what way could she have gone about it to make it appear less about her?

Not a "go on then!" challenge, a genuine curiosity to understand what you think is missing in this instance.

I think she should have spoken to the tournament representatives in private, said that she finds interviews after a loss difficult and distressing and detrimental to her mental health, and asked to be excluded from them. This, rather than (apparently) announce it over social media.

Then speak to other players, many of whom I'm sure would be sympathetic, and approach the issue collectively.

 

[Lord Camomile]

I think that's really sad.

It is. Hopefully in service of an eventual good, though who the hell knows.

Possibly because I'm naturally inclined to be on Osaka's side anyway, and therefore view different things as positive and negative, but does seem like a bit of a self-inflicted wound for the Open. They've lost one of their most marketable and successful players (although yes, I'm aware clay isn't her best surface).

 

[Lord Camomile]

I think she should have spoken to the tournament representatives in private, said that she finds interviews after a loss difficult and distressing and detrimental to her mental health, and asked to be excluded from them. This, rather than (apparently) announce it over social media.

Then speak to other players, many of whom I'm sure would be sympathetic, and approach the issue collectively.

Aye, p'raps. I do think it's still important for these things to be done in public, to highlight an issue and get a discussion going.

I can certainly see the argument for talking to the tournament reps, and particularly the other players, but whether that would have been better or worse, personally I don't think what she did do undermines the main points of her argument. Plus, she just decided to remove herself from the tournament, so clearly willing to make some real sacrifices.

 

[Jay Park]

I think she should have spoken to the tournament representatives in private, said that she finds interviews after a loss difficult and distressing and detrimental to her mental health, and asked to be excluded from them. This, rather than (apparently) announce it over social media.

Then speak to other players, many of whom I'm sure would be sympathetic, and approach the issue collectively.

reaction has been mixed, apparently.

 

[MrSki]

I am glad for her mental health that she can give the court a miss for a while & would be comfortably off if she never hit another ball but a lot of players on the tour that survive on match fees probably hate doing the press too.

It seems to be part of a lot of sports that a post match interview is needed but in say football they normally interview the winning goal scorer & not the poor bugger who scored an own goal. The whole being away from home for long periods of time is found in some sports like cricket & there are recent examples of players who can't hack it.

I find it hard to have much sympathy for any multi-millionaire but can also understand the stress they are under.

Hopefully this will bring attention to mental health problems in all sports.

 

[Hollis]

No it wouldn't. I think there is a point here about how massively rich various sports people can become now, but the tournaments existed before tv, and sport can function perfectly well without the advertising money. It would just be a very different set up, one in which the elite players don't get rich.

I hardly think pre or post-match interviews are that important to any sport. Most pro-cyclists (for example) are so well media trained these days that their interviews are incredibly boring! Media can still get talking heads/ex-players to mull over the various gossip/events/inside knowledge.

 

[MrSki]

I hardly think pre or post-match interviews are that important to any sport. Most pro-cyclists (for example) are so well media trained these days that their inteviews are incredibly boring! Media can still get talking heads/ex-players to mull over the various gossip/events/inside knowledge.

Agreed but it is inspiring when you have a sportsperson buzzing straight after a game/match but not to see the losers tears.

 

[belboid]

Excellent Jonathan Liew piece about what’s wrong with modern press conferences

We’re not the good guys: Osaka shows up problems of press conferences | Jonathan Liew

Young athletes are expected to answer the most intimate questions in a cynical and often predatory environment

www.theguardian.com

 

[oryx]

I am glad for her mental health that she can give the court a miss for a while & would be comfortably off if she never hit another ball but a lot of players on the tour that survive on match fees probably hate doing the press too.

This is an important point - Osaka is a multiple Slam winner and wealthy and can afford the fines, less well-off players couldn't, but may have to grit their teeth and just do it.

I hope that as a result of this players are subject to fewer stupid questions such as the example I gave above of one asked to Heather Watson - but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Argonia]

Sizikova's in hot water

Russia's Sizikova released from police custody after match-fixing allegations

Russian player Yana Sizikova has been released from police custody a day after being arrested at the French Open over match-fixing allegations related to last year's tournament, her lawyer said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

 

[D'wards]

When has a sports person said anything remotely interesting in an interview anyway?

Apart from Cantona of course

 

[1927]

Do INEOS care who wins tmrw or will they favour Porte or Thomas? Who will support who?

 

[belboid]

Great shame Federer has pulled out, but sounds like the right thing to do. Serena a set down, but she'll probably take the next one 6-0. Tsitsipas in great form, should be a good match against Medvedev in the quarters.

Shame about Djokovic winning.

 

[belboid]

So much for 6-0 in the second!

 

[belboid]

Damn Djokovic, damn him.

Superb two sets from the kid Musetti

 

[oryx]

Damn Djokovic, damn him.

Superb two sets from the kid Musetti

I really thought that Djokovic might be on his way, but unbelievable turnaround - either due to his superior fitness or Musetti being injured.

 

[belboid]

First match I’ve managed to see all of. Pavs looked good for the win without ever being really amazing. Hopefully Krejcikova/Sakkari will be better