The (Food) Oil Wars

[Brainaddict]

So opinions over good and bad fats have changed so frequently in my own lifetime that it is impossible to keep up. Moreover often I see 'emerging evidence' (that may or may not turn out to be the real deal) presented as plain fact and the new reality. So here is a thread where urban can come up with the definitive opinions on whether dairy fats are really that bad, whether meat fat will lead to early death, whether olive oil is really that much better than rapeseed oil, whether all seed oils are a source of evil, whether trans fats have had a bad rap, and so on.

Of course you can also post your opinions on these issues, post regular news in the interminable oil wars, disparage the idea of the thread, but eventually all that will really be acceptable is large meta-analyses of high quality scientific studies, and thus the winnners and losers will be decided. However it's a lot of work to look all that up myself, hence the thread

First hot topic: has olive oil had too much propaganda in its favour? Is a vastly cheaper oil (often sold as just humble 'vegetable oil', though be careful as other oils are also sold under that title) just as good or better for most non-flavouring purposes? Rapeseed versus Olive oil- The Cooking Academy

Or is it in fact one of the 'toxic' seed oils we must defend ourselves against while cooking everything in butter?

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I pretty much ignore it - use olive oil liberally, and lashings of butter when I want.

Never ever touch margarine.

 

[Brainaddict]

I pretty much ignore it - use olive oil liberally, and lashings of butter when I want.

Never ever touch margarine.

So you've succumbed to the olive oil propagandists despite the cheaper alternatives?

 

[dessiato]

We use olive oil for the majority of things, including deep frying. It just tastes so good. We use sunflower oil for stir frying, sometimes with a bit of sesame oil, for flavour.

For steaks, fish, depending on species, we use butter with oil to stop the butter burning.

In Scotland we use rapeseed, the olive oil there is dreadful. Even the so-called quality oils in the supermarkets are very poor quality compared to Spain. We’ve even noticed that the olive oil in Galicia is not as good as that in Andalucia.

I thought this was going to be about the Ukrainian war causing problems of sunflower oil supply. It’s so bad here people are restricted to only 5 litres at a time.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I use vegetable oil for frying etc - you're not trying to add flavour and as I understand it the lower burning point of olive oil makes it less favourable for heating. Olive oil is for salad dressings etc.

 

[dessiato]

I use vegetable oil for frying etc - you're not trying to add flavour and as I understand it the lower burning point of olive oil makes it less favourable for heating. Olive oil is for salad dressings etc.

Try a deep fried egg done in olive oil. Get the best oil you can. I promise you you’ll not regret it. The same with fried bread. Do it with olive oil. It really isn’t just for salad dressing, you’re not using it broadly enough if this is all you do with it.

Maybe it’s an Iberian thing, but it’s used very widely in cooking here.

 

[Epona]

Sorry but as much as I like olive oil, I don't actually want everything tasting of it, and for a lot of things I prefer a neutral tasting oil or butter. Or ghee for non-burny higher temperature buttery frying. Bring on the ghee.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I think that good quality oils must be better for you nutritionally as well as just tasting better. I avoid anything that says that it contains hydrogenated oil or 'longer life' oils.

I buy veg or rapeseed oil for frying (cooks at hight temp) and expensive but lovely cold pressed extra virgin olive oil for salads. Also save dripping from meat to cook meat in. And always buy butter - never could bear margarine.

Science and nhs advice has flip flopped about the value of different fats in our diets in my adult life time, but I always think people have been eating it for millenia its probably ok, whereas our stoneage bodies weren't intended to be fed stuff that has to be made in chemical factories.

 

[JimW]

 

[gentlegreen]

I deliberately buy generic - presumably solvent-extracted - rapeseed "cooking" oil - partly because it is much frowned on by the anti-GM people - though I doubt UK rapeseed oil is extracted from glyphosated "Canola" ... but it isn't just the Roundup-ready thing, they firmly believe rape seed oil is full of deadly erucic acid ... which I suppose overlaps with the anti-nutrient bollocks ...

... but also because hempseed oil is expensive, goes rancid quickly and is not suitable for high temperatures ...
I think apart from walnut oil - which is similarly healthy-plus-problematic, rapeseed has a moderately not completely terrible omega 3:6 ratio...

... that said, I haven't actually done a stir-fry for years and all I use it for is a small slurp in my bread-making - I used to buy "cold-pressed" in Aldi for that reason ...

... that said again, it's calories - even if I discount the cries of "No Oil Ever !!" from several vegan doctor influencers ...
I use crunchy PNB on my breakfast bread and my other fat source is tahini.

I know very little about heart-health - I have very low cholesterol and I hope the low HDL isn't a reflection of my brain being starved of healthy fat ...

 

[pogofish]

TBH, your cholesterol levels are much more defined by your metabolic processes, notably those connected with the liver, pancreas and small intestine, not diet.

The typical medic’s first-line “you need to reduce your fat intake” is more a canonical thing, maybe to help you “take ownership,” rather than an actual attempt to manage any problem as most ingested fat is esterified in digestion and very little is actually absorbed by your guts. So the vast majority won’t make any significant difference.

 

[Idaho]

Butter or coconut oil for frying, olive oil for dressings and added to recipes. Pretty much avoid cheap veg oil.

 

[JimW]

We use loads of oil as we cook Chinese style and about all we do is try and rotate a bit between rapeseed and sunflower; sesame is not really for cooking, used to flavour, have some flax seed oil got given that gets used similarly to sesame and then olive oil for some Western stuff.
ETA Oh and soy bean oil for main cooking too.

 

[dessiato]

Sorry but as much as I like olive oil, I don't actually want everything tasting of it, and for a lot of things I prefer a neutral tasting oil or butter. Or ghee for non-burny higher temperature buttery frying. Bring on the ghee.

I think this is a British thing with olive oil.

We were very fortunate to live in what is possibly the world's largest olive oil production area. There are so many different types and flavours of oil that there's one for most tastes. The very light ones have little flavour, as you progress to darker ones the flavours intensify and become quiet distinct.

I'm going to miss these oils.

 

[Epona]

Butter/ghee though...

 

[Epona]

I think it's probably a very Mediterranean thing to assume that olive oil is best for everything - the variety you describe sounds wonderful, but I'm not going to fry Szechuan chicken or salt & pepper squid or Thai basil prawns in olive oil. And I'm not going to use it to make a tadka/tarka to go on dhal.

 

[dessiato]

I think it's probably a very Mediterranean thing to assume that olive oil is best for everything - the variety you describe sounds wonderful, but I'm not going to fry Szechuan chicken or salt & pepper squid or Thai basil prawns in olive oil. And I'm not going to use it to make a tadka/tarka to go on dhal.

In these cases I'd use sunflower or similar.

 

[cesare]

Vegetable oil for stir-frying or neutral flavour required cooking. Light olive oil for cooking, frying, etc where the flavour adds. Extra virgin olive oil/cold-pressed oils e.g. sesame for cold/finishing.

Add butter when it's a sauce.

 

[pogofish]

Butter/ghee though...

Trouble is that a very large proportion of ghee is made from hydrolysed palm oil, which is very high in saturated and trans-fats, plus Acrylamide from the heat exchangers in the most common production processe, which are highly dubious in umpteen other ways, so unless you can be certain of its provenance, you can’t assume it’s made from butter.

 

[Epona]

Trouble is that a very large proportion of ghee is made from hydrolysed palm oil, which is very high in saturated and trans-fats, plus Acrylamide from the heat exchangers in the most common production processe, which are highly dubious in umpteen other ways, so unless you can be certain of its provenance, you can’t assume it’s made from butter.

I can if I make it my fucking self from butter

 

[Saunders]

I mostly use olive oil for everything but use meat drippings for roasting potatoes and have either refined coconut oil or palm oil for if I’m cooking for veggies or if I’m making a curry. I once read something about polyunsaturates, how they’re extracted and free radicals which, at the time, made sense. I don’t like having too many bottles and jars of different things that don’t get used very often and find this works for me.

 

[Brainaddict]

In these cases I'd use sunflower or similar.

Sunflower oil is quite unhealthy compared to rapeseed oil I think. Since they both taste of not much I'd always go for the latter.

 

[Brainaddict]

I see the NHS is still promoting fat reduction in quite a blanket way, with a focus on saturated fats but in fact suggesting cutting all fats: How to eat less saturated fat - NHS

 

[gentlegreen]

((((ketobois))))

Actually the worst crime they commit is putting coconut oil in coffee....

 

[spitfire]

Try a deep fried egg done in olive oil. Get the best oil you can. I promise you you’ll not regret it. The same with fried bread. Do it with olive oil. It really isn’t just for salad dressing, you’re not using it broadly enough if this is all you do with it.

Maybe it’s an Iberian thing, but it’s used very widely in cooking here.

Some of the best fried eggs I've ever had were in Spain. I've tried recreating it with the olive oil here but it's not the same.

 

[ska invita]

i heard that olive oil loses all its health benefits when heated - on salad its good but fried you might as well use a different oil

I use one cal a lot - its weird shit

 

[spitfire]

Yes, olive oil has a low smoke point so you need to treat it with caution.

What's a Smoke Point and Why Does it Matter?

One of the most important things you'll want to consider when picking out a fat is smoke point. But what is it and why does it matter? Here's what you need to know.

www.seriouseats.com

 

[pogofish]

Sunflower oil is quite unhealthy compared to rapeseed oil I think. Since they both taste of not much I'd always go for the latter.

Depends on the rapeseed oil - The locally produced oil I tend to get does have a quite marked/distinctive taste and usually darker colour, although more generic supermarket rapeseed oil is indeed more refined/tasteless. I do keep a bottle of sunflower oil - usually a small one for the few things where the taste of rapeseed oil either overpowers or doesn't complement and a bottle of olive oil, which is mainly for making bread and grapeseed oil for frying/heat etc - which makes brilliant skirlie without having the oil burn and smoking-out the kitchen!

 

[pogofish]

i heard that olive oil loses all its health benefits when heated - on salad its good but fried you might as well use a different oil

I use one cal a lot - its weird shit

Heated gently is fine health-wise but if olive oil is heated beyond the point of it burning/smoking, then the acrylamide and other multitudinous byproducts of inefficient combustion put it in the about the same health band as fag smoke.

 

[teuchter]

I had some related questions a couple of years ago.

Pomace; and The Truth about olive oil

Olive oil. If you look in a mainstream UK supermarket your options tend to be regular or extra virgin. However it is my observation that if you go into a shop whose custom largely comes from people with origins in the parts of the world where olive oil is, as it were, used natively, then often...

www.urban75.net