The end of scab tills

[brogdale]

The argument that you are taking away people's jobs by using self service could equally be said about using litter bins.

Not really.
One activity is meeting a basic physiological need and the other is just anti-social behaviour. Furthermore, until they robotise the emptying of bins, doing the right thing still creates employment.

Whataboutery like this just looks like negative solidarity to me.

 

[kenny g]

Not really.
One activity is meeting a basic physiological need and the other is just anti-social behaviour. Furthermore, until they robotise the emptying of bins, doing the right thing still creates employment.

Whataboutery like this just looks like negative solidarity to me.

But one can meet the basic physiological need by using automated tills. The automated tills still require staff to service and monitor their usage.

It was an analogy rather than whataboutery.

 

[seeformiles]

Not really.
One activity is meeting a basic physiological need and the other is just anti-social behaviour. Furthermore, until they robotise the emptying of bins, doing the right thing still creates employment.

Whataboutery like this just looks like negative solidarity to me.

Having had “Keep Britain Tidy” drilled into me as an article of faith, I had an episode of what could be described as psychological distress one day at Kings Cross station when I couldn’t find a bin (all removed after the bombing). I asked a copper where the bin was and she told me to drop my rubbish on the floor

 

[Epona]

The thing is, if we lived in a better, more equal sort of society, automation of tedious or hazardous jobs would without doubt be a good thing, we'd all have the better lives and more leisure time that were predicted.
We don't though, we live under capitalism and it means people lose their jobs, there are fewer jobs like that available, the big companies make more profit, and more people live in poverty as a result.
I'm actually a bit surprised that people here don't seem to get that simple fact.

 

[hash tag]

But one can meet the basic physiological need by using automated tills. The automated tills still require staff to service and monitor their usage.

It was an analogy rather than whataboutery.

One member of staff can often monitor 20 or more tills.

 

[brogdale]

But one can meet the basic physiological need by using automated tills. The automated tills still require staff to service and monitor their usage.

It was an analogy rather than whataboutery.

Yes, but the key difference is that the two activities are fundamentally different; one has seen attempts to cut labour costs through technological change/capital intensification that can be resisted (if we choose to), the other not so. So not really a useful analogy.

 

[hash tag]

I don't think I have seen any mention yet of people who are unable to use these tills. i know my elderly MiL would not be able to. Many elderly and disabled people would not be able to use them and those without bank cards would not be able to. i am sure the shops would say that there are staff on hand to help these people but I would doubt it.

 

[brogdale]

The thing is, if we lived in a better, more equal sort of society, automation of tedious or hazardous jobs would without doubt be a good thing, we'd all have the better lives and more leisure time that were predicted.
We don't though, we live under capitalism and it means people lose their jobs, there are fewer jobs like that available, the big companies make more profit, and more people live in poverty as a result.
I'm actually a bit surprised that people here don't seem to get that simple fact.

This.
Some of us on here are old enough to remember the 'Tomorrow's World' type propaganda about the computerised future world we were sold in which it all be the leisure society for us proles.
The reality is, as you say,

people lose their jobs, there are fewer jobs like that available, the big companies make more profit

Added to which we're increasingly expected to undertake time-consuming unpaid labour ourselves via apps/platforms/automated systems etc.

 

[Epona]

I don't think I have seen any mention yet of people who are unable to use these tills. i know my elderly MiL would not be able to. Many elderly and disabled people would not be able to use them and those without bank cards would not be able to. i am sure the shops would say that there are staff on hand to help these people but I would doubt it.

I did mention earlier that I find some scab tills (and I will keep calling them that) don't have suitable areas where I can pack my bag, I use a rucksack but I need it to be higher than waist level when I am packing it or I can't put stuff in it or get it onto my back due to disability.
TBF if I go into Iceland and the staff see me heading towards the checkout area they will open a proper till for me, but it's not the default state these days and sometimes I need to struggle at the scab till where there is no area to put my rucksack to pack stuff.
Also as someone with a disability, you actually don't want to be the person that people are running around for to make things OK for you, things should be OK for you in the first place not people doing something different to accommodate you - and scab tills are not as accessible.

 

[Serge Forward]

The term "scab tills" was surely a bit of a laff which has now run its course. How about calling them "coming over here, taking our jobs" tills? Or less racist sounding, "making us work unpaid for the bosses" tills? Yeah, not very snappy.

 

[Artaxerxes]

One member of staff can often monitor 20 or more tills.

Why do they only ever have like three open when 20 are available?

 

[Artaxerxes]

The term "scab tills" was surely a bit of a laff which has now run its course. How about calling them "coming over here, taking our jobs" tills? Or less racist sounding, "making us work unpaid for the bosses" tills? Yeah, not very snappy.

Luddite Tills

 

[UnderOpenSky]

One member of staff can often monitor 20 or more tills.

Very badly. It's the same as having a just few checkouts open on a busy day long queues down the isle.

It's counter productive as if it keeps happening people think "fuck this" and shop elsewhere. I hardly ever use Lidl for this reason.

 

[Serge Forward]

Luddite Tills

Snappier but tills aren't luddites. It's customers who rage against these tills who are the luddites (and I use luddites in the positive sense here).

 

[Elpenor]

I make a point of not being a dick if I have an issue using them and saying thank you to the member of staff who often looks harassed. I think I’d be knackered after a day of doing that.

But then I try and say thanks to everyone I meet who has been helpful, it costs nothing and I know what it’s like to do a job which is by and large unappreciated until people want something.

 

[rubbershoes]

But I hate that my local Aldi shuts all tills after about 8 o'clock and you have to use scab tills. I like to go shopping later, and like to do a Big Shop. But then it takes forever to scan it all, and needs multiple interventions from asisstants because the machine doesn't recognise my items, or to switch bags because one is full.

My local Aldi closes the self service tills at 8 and so I don't go after then. I'm generally just getting a couple of items and don't want to be behind people doing full trolley shops at the normal tills

 

[NoXion]

That's quite a negative comment. If enough customers behaved in such a way, there might well be a corporate re-thinking of the seemingly inevitable capital intensification of the retailing experience.

But why would enough customers behave in such a way? If not an organised campaign, then what else would actually encourage a wider shift from customers towards putting themselves through the inconvenience and wasted time (arguably more precious than money) of queuing for a crewed till? It's not just doubters like me that would have to be convinced, but also a significant percentage of shoppers generally who would need to be 1) made aware of the problem, 2) be convinced that it is in fact a problem and 3) be convinced that queuing for a crewed till would be a viable part of addressing the problem.

Maybe "an organised campaign" isn't the answer to this particular issue, but given the trajectory of this issue over the past few years, i.e. the fact that self-service till sections have grown not shrunk, it's clear that whatever is happening now is trending in the wrong direction in the eyes of those calling them "scab" tills.

 

[Orang Utan]

I make a point of not being a dick if I have an issue using them and saying thank you to the member of staff who often looks harassed. I think I’d be knackered after a day of doing that.

But then I try and say thanks to everyone I meet who has been helpful, it costs nothing and I know what it’s like to do a job which is by and large unappreciated until people want something.

It’s ingrained in me to say thanks, but I even thank the tills and the ATMs!

 

[brogdale]

It’s ingrained in me to say thanks, but I even thank the tills and the ATMs!

Oh, come off it; surely everyone swears at the automated tills with their fucking annoying instructions?

I even had an argument the other day with that twatish robot sweeper that barks at you at London Bridge station (Shard entrance).

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I make a point of not being a dick if I have an issue using them and saying thank you to the member of staff who often looks harassed. I think I’d be knackered after a day of doing that.

Same here. I imagine it must be tiring standing there for hours sorting out the inevitable issues with them, and dealing with grief from stroppy customers so a thank you hopefully counterbalances that a little bit.

 

[Orang Utan]

Oh, come off it; surely everyone swears at the automated tills with their fucking annoying instructions?

I even had an argument the other day with that twatish robot sweeper that barks at you at London Bridge station (Shard entrance).

I have been known to swear, particularly when buying painkillers or energy drinks. Can’t say i get annoyed with the instructions though as I’ve always got my earphones in

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Luddite Tills

Tory tills

 

[brogdale]

I'd advocate sticking with Scab tills, but if an alternative were required, for whatever reason, I'd pitch the term Theft tills. That would seem to cover most aspects of their purpose and usage.

 

[StoneRoad]

One member of staff can often monitor 20 or more tills.

Until several people arrive at the same time, all with "tagged" products like alcohol, clothes, etc.
or some of the machinery / programming goes wrong ...
or someone who can't manage for accessibility / other reasons.

I've seen people mentally say "fuck it" and walk out when that situation occurs ...
and I've had zero problem with a short wait at the express staffed till.

 

[Spymaster]

... negative solidarity ..

 

[Cerv]

I'd advocate sticking with Scab tills, but if an alternative were required, for whatever reason, I'd pitch the term Theft tills. That would seem to cover most aspects of their purpose and usage.

I would propose the motion - "hate tills"
that is the apparently the word de rigueur for anything one seeks to delegitimise.

 

[Spymaster]

It’s ingrained in me to say thanks, but I even thank the tills and the ATMs!

My mum used to speak to them "hello ... thank you ... bye bye"

 

[Cerv]

I have been known to swear, particularly when buying painkillers or energy drinks. Can’t say i get annoyed with the instructions though as I’ve always got my earphones in

painkillers, energy drinks, alcohol - all fair enough to require authorisation and it is to be expected.
but I'm still miffed by the time I tried to get a pack of antacid from the coop and had to wait. it's just fucking chalk.

 

[brogdale]

painkillers, energy drinks, alcohol - all fair enough to require authorisation and it is to be expected.
but I'm still miffed by the time I tried to get a pack of antacid from the coop and had to wait. it's just fucking chalk.

Mrs B sometimes purchases a product known as alcohol-free beer and on at least one occasion she had to wait for staff (age) approval before being allowed to check out.

 

[Orang Utan]

painkillers, energy drinks, alcohol - all fair enough to require authorisation and it is to be expected.
but I'm still miffed by the time I tried to get a pack of antacid from the coop and had to wait. it's just fucking chalk.

I don’t like being told how many packets of ibuprofen I’m allowed to buy. They restrict you to two. Fair enough with paracetamol, but ibuprofen?