The end of scab tills

[brogdale]

ironically if the Strike hadn;t set in motion the dash for Gas etc , the Easily machine worked Nottinghamshire / Doncaster Pits would likely haveen been naturally worked out or worked until environmental concenrs closed them

The dash for gas was not set in motion by the strike but ideological policy decisions like the privatisation of the natural monopolies

 

[brogdale]

Interestingly, the relatively new Aldi on Purley Way has never had any scab tills.

 

[Spymaster]

I've worked in supermarkets. My favourite task was doing checkout. Hated the bakery counter, jam and sugar up to my elbows by the end of the shift.

A bunch of us worked in Sainsbury's on Thursday evenings and Saturdays when we were in the 5th year and 6th form. That would've been 82/83 and back then the tills were considered girl's work. If you got stuck on them your mates would take the piss because lads work was either in the warehouse or shelf stacking. I managed to swerve the tills by avoiding getting trained on them, and bagged the most mint job of the lot; collecting trolleys from the car parks. That meant smoking fags in the multi-storey for half the shift and often bagging an extra quid or two in 20p pieces from the unreturned trolleys.

 

[Pickman's model]

A lot of the time it's the only job that's available to some people so there's not a great deal of choice involved. Sometimes you do what you got to do to get by.

You're arguing against things I haven't said. We've all worked in environments we haven't liked. We've all known it was the wrong job for us.

 

[seeformiles]

You're arguing against things I haven't said. We've all worked in environments we haven't liked. We've all known it was the wrong job for us.

I’m not - you did say that there was an element of choice that I would argue is not there in many people’s situations.

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m not - you did say that there was an element of choice that I would argue is not there in many people’s situations.

I never mentioned choice. Go back and look.

 

[seeformiles]

I never mentioned choice. Go back and lo

You said they were “definitely in the wrong job” but the implication was that they shouldn’t complain if they were which (for right or wrong). If that was my interpretation, it might be wrong but I found a bit sneery - even if it was unintentional. I appreciate and enjoy your pedantry most of the time but I think you have the wrong end of the stick here.

 

[Pickman's model]

You said they were “definitely in the wrong job” but the implication was that they shouldn’t complain if they were which (for right or wrong). If that was my interpretation, it might be wrong but I found a bit sneery - even if it was unintentional. I appreciate and enjoy your pedantry most of the time but I think you have the wrong end of the stick here.

That's not the implication at all - fuck knows we all moan here about work and that's even when we're in jobs we quite like. So you can take your implication and I think you know where you can put it. But you're no longer defending your choice comment, which is a step in the right direction.

 

[seeformiles]

That's not the implication at all - fuck knows we all moan here about work and that's even when we're in jobs we quite like. So you can take your implication and I think you know where you can put it.

Ah - whatever!

 

[hash tag]

Things and technology change. Has anyone been concerned about any other jobs affected by technology? Telephone operators? Travel agents?
I appreciate we fixate on what is every day experience but it’s not the only arena changing.and other jobs spring up to replace them e.g. the rise of online shops and the impact on parcel post, courier services, etc. I’m just not sure that the lack of staffed tills is the best hill on which to choose to die.

Not me. I do not buy online with the exception of trying to source one or two bits that are impossible to get any other way. Neither have I ever had a delivery of food or takeaways. We either cook for ourselves or eat out. See posts under death of the high street.

 

[seeformiles]

Not me. I do not buy online with the exception of trying to source one or two bits that are impossible to get any other way. Neither have I ever had a delivery of food or takeaways. We either cook for ourselves or eat out. See posts under death of the high street.

I’m much the same. Many years in kitchens mean I can cook like a diva and never buy what I can make.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ah - whatever!

Never had you down as a moody teenager

 

[seeformiles]

Never had you down as a moody teenager

So you’d rather we develop some sort of beef over a difference of opinion? Please

 

[Wilf]

This thread is an indirect reminder of how shit the British left and unions have been about joining up workers interests, communities and consumers. Failure of Enough is Enough etc. But that's a digression. Ish.

 

[Pickman's model]

So you’d rather we develop some sort of beef over a difference of opinion? Please

Beef's too dear these days

 

[seeformiles]

Beef's too dear these days

Indeed - we could have a pork or chicken instead?

 

[hitmouse]

Noxion's points upthread are obviously correct and I'm almost surprised that they're controversial.

Why does the absence of an organised campaign make hostility to scabtills an 'individual choice'? That just doesn't follow. And even more so, why is that a feature of neoliberalism?

Where would you draw the line between individual and collective action? Surely the presence of some kind of organised campaign (not necessarily formally organised, but organised somehow) is the very thing that makes it more than an individual choice? For what it's worth, I think veganism/vegetarianism are far more "organised" than not using scab tills, but I'd still think of them as being about individual choice too.

It's hard to pin down what everyone means using a term, but I've always taken scab tills as a way of describing a situation in trade union terms. The sort of situation where you wouldn't use them if there had been an USDAW campaign against them. As you say, that ship's sailed now, but the term pretty much stuck for me.

I mean, that's the whole point isn't it? If there was a USDAW campaign against them, I'd support it, and avoid using them if that's what the campaign demanded. Or even by the Solfed shop workers branch or something similar (not that there is one, afaik). But there isn't. That's a crucial point imo - in the absence of that campaign, it's a bit like saying that a scab is someone who goes to work, without paying too much attention to whether they're crossing a picket line or not.

But yeah, the bigger issue is shitty employers and a shitty sector. My step daughter worked for Tesco and now Aldi and just in the last 10 years the screw has tightened. Perhaps the start of 'scab tills' could have been a moment when workers and consumers could have come together and had a bit of solidarity. ditto rail users and ticket office staff now. It isn't happening though, which is... depressing.

Fwiw, I thought the ticket office campaign was pretty inspiring, and seems to be actually winning. Comparing the successful ticket office campaign to the entirely individualised discussion around self-checkout feels like night and day, although obviously rail and retail staff are starting off from very different points in terms of existing organisation. Might also be worth considering that the asks the RMT made of consumers around the ticket office campaign weren't particularly based around "don't use ticket machines or buy online".

 

[A380]

Different things are being conflated. Sometimes the tech development offers benefits to both sides ( consumers and owners) . Scan as you shop for example means you can put stuff straight into your bag and if doing a big shop skip the queues. Likewise rail tickets on line with a QR code on your phone means not pissing about with a wallet full of paper tickets for multiple journeys. I use both as they offer me a benefit. Scab tills and station ticket machines, I’ll avoid those as I quite like people and so would rather use the staffed option.

 

[xenon]

Not me. I do not buy online with the exception of trying to source one or two bits that are impossible to get any other way. Neither have I ever had a delivery of food or takeaways. We either cook for ourselves or eat out. See posts under death of the high street.

What have you against takeaways? Family run independent takeaways. Like most of them are.

 

[Wilf]

Noxion's points upthread are obviously correct and I'm almost surprised that they're controversial.

Where would you draw the line between individual and collective action? Surely the presence of some kind of organised campaign (not necessarily formally organised, but organised somehow) is the very thing that makes it more than an individual choice? For what it's worth, I think veganism/vegetarianism are far more "organised" than not using scab tills, but I'd still think of them as being about individual choice too.

I mean, that's the whole point isn't it? If there was a USDAW campaign against them, I'd support it, and avoid using them if that's what the campaign demanded. Or even by the Solfed shop workers branch or something similar (not that there is one, afaik). But there isn't. That's a crucial point imo - in the absence of that campaign, it's a bit like saying that a scab is someone who goes to work, without paying too much attention to whether they're crossing a picket line or not.

Fwiw, I thought the ticket office campaign was pretty inspiring, and seems to be actually winning. Comparing the successful ticket office campaign to the entirely individualised discussion around self-checkout feels like night and day, although obviously rail and retail staff are starting off from very different points in terms of existing organisation. Might also be worth considering that the asks the RMT made of consumers around the ticket office campaign weren't particularly based around "don't use ticket machines or buy online".

As to the point between individual and collective, I suppose we are at the point of language here. Individuals calling them scab tills in the absence of an organised or union campaign is, by definition, individual. But I don't think that's necessarily individualist and in fact it may come from an (admittedly vague and loose) collective place. Or at least a sense that the way retail had been intensified has been shit for workers and of no benefit to customers. Going on about scab tills, all these years on, is howling in the wind and might even annoy people who work in supermarkets. but my guess is it comes out of something real. That sense of getting fucked over, in work and out.

Anyroad, having said all that, I'm rapidly going off the term. Bigger issue of course is finding some solidarity in all areas of our lives.

 

[Santino]

I'm sure I read an article about a month ago about self service tills and how they were not saving shops as much money as they were supposed to, but I can't find it now.

 

[steeplejack]

When rhetoric and reality collide, which do you think comes off the worse for wear? I think you know the answer, hence your flippant non-response here.

Sorry I’m not as seething on this issue as you. I won’t use automated / non personned / scab tills when there are actual people working tills.

I’m not responsible for a lack of collective groundswell on the issue, merely sharing thoughts & trying to find an amiable point of agreeing to disagree.

Feel free to bounce back with some snarky rejoinder about how you alone are trying to change our common reality. Thanks for your service.

 

[Orang Utan]

Not me. I do not buy online with the exception of trying to source one or two bits that are impossible to get any other way. Neither have I ever had a delivery of food or takeaways. We either cook for ourselves or eat out. See posts under death of the high street.

You won’t get a medal, so stop applying for one

 

[andysays]

Daily Star have this as their front page today

 

[PR1Berske]

Google Trends has not enough data for the search term "scab tills"

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=GB&q=%22scab%20tills%22&hl=en-GB

 

[ouirdeaux]

It's a fucking stupid term. Scabs are strikebreakers. There is no strike to break.

 

[brogdale]

It's a fucking stupid term. Scabs are strikebreakers. There is no strike to break.

That's objectively correct, but the term does have some merits. This thread and discussion demonstrates that the term attracts attention and has the capacity to engage more people to consider the retail trend than if a term like self-service till were used. Secondly, for those people who are unwilling to be coerced into providing their free labour as consumer/producers, using staffed tills/ticket offices is a form of 'striking', albeit informal, individual and unorganised. On the rare occasions when I do use the scab tills I do feel like I'm scabbing on that withdrawal of my labour.

Of course, you don't have to use the term if it offends.

 

[Orang Utan]

It's a fucking stupid term. Scabs are strikebreakers. There is no strike to break.

Sometimes people use scab in a wider context than that, to mean ‘idealogically unsound’.
I don’t use the term either.

 

[hash tag]

If there was a USDAW campaign against them, I'd support it, and avoid using them if that's what the campaign demanded.

Forget tills; can you not make up your own mind about what you do or don't do and would you always follow what some organisation tell you to do?

 

[hash tag]

What have you against takeaways? Family run independent takeaways. Like most of them are.

Food is luke warm by the time you get it home or is delivered. We would either eat stuff we cooked at home or eat out.
Besides, not at all keen on the working practices of some delivery companies.