The end of scab tills

[steeplejack]

Not sure why you'd have any issue understanding what I posted. Feigning incomprehension isn't going to be an effective accessory in the fight against such tills either.

I genuinely don't.

1. You seem to be arguing that as there is no organised campaign against unmanned tills that somehow
2. calling them "scab tills" and discussing our interaction with them (or not) on here is somehow 'neoliberal'.

I can understand what you posted, but not following your logic at all.

 

[seeformiles]

tbh they're definitely in the wrong job if they don't like dealing with the public

A lot of the time it's the only job that's available to some people so there's not a great deal of choice involved. Sometimes you do what you got to do to get by.

 

[InArduisFouette]

these aims can converge with customers’ needs too. Many people like being able to do their grocery shopping without having to interact with anyone.

people also like the staff on the shop floor to be doing replen and assisting people with finding items

 

[NoXion]

I genuinely don't.

1. You seem to be arguing that as there is no organised campaign against unmanned tills that somehow
2. calling them "scab tills" and discussing our interaction with them (or not) on here is somehow 'neoliberal'.

I can understand what you posted, but not following your logic at all.

Absent an organised campaign it's just a personal choice, isn't it? But dressing it up in rhetoric suggestive of collective action, where none actually exists, sounds like the kind of sneaky substitution for real collective action with individual choices that is (I would argue) a signature of latter-day neoliberalism. I'm not suggesting that this is an intentional deception by any means, but it seems to me like a fundamental disconnection between the reality and the description is happening.

 

[liquidindian]

collective action,

I think Piers Corbyn has tried to get this started.

 

[NoXion]

I think Piers Corbyn has tried to get this started.

Has he? I thought being an anti-vax twat was more his (shopping) bag. It's certainly a better moneyspinner.

 

[pbsmooth]

Has anybody actually asked shop workers if they actually like working on the till and dealing with the public? As I mentioned several posts ago, it can be an actively unpleasant experience and many staff (me and my co-workers at the time) preferred to do other things around the store or in the warehouse as being on the tills was considered punishment. A not inconsiderable minority of the shopping public are total cunts.

get on the till so some ageing lefties can feel like they're doing you a favour!

 

[Sasaferrato]

A lot of the time it's the only job that's available to some people so there's not a great deal of choice involved. Sometimes you do what you got to do to get by.

Yep.

 

[Chz]

Have to admit that I haven't seen the scan to exit thing as of yet. Costco has someone scan over your purchases and receipt, but they're technically a private members' club and can set the rules to be whatever the fuck they want. Within reason. I'm already not going back to Sainsbury's because I apparently need a Nectar card to get a "discounted" price that's the same as Iceland or Tesco's normal price, but they'd be on my shit list for years if they do that here.

 

[liquidindian]

Has he? I thought being an anti-vax twat was more his (shopping) bag. It's certainly a better moneyspinner.

 

[moochedit]

Have to admit that I haven't seen the scan to exit thing as of yet. Costco has someone scan over your purchases and receipt, but they're technically a private members' club and can set the rules to be whatever the fuck they want. Within reason. I'm already not going back to Sainsbury's because I apparently need a Nectar card to get a "discounted" price that's the same as Iceland or Tesco's normal price, but they'd be on my shit list for years if they do that here.

My local sainsburys only installed the gates in the last week or so.

 

[NoXion]

Fucking pillock. Him, not you.

 

[steeplejack]

Absent an organised campaign it's just a personal choice, isn't it? But dressing it up in rhetoric suggestive of collective action, where none actually exists, sounds like the kind of sneaky substitution for real collective action with individual choices that is (I would argue) a signature of latter-day neoliberalism. I'm not suggesting that this is an intentional deception by any means, but it seems to me like a fundamental disconnection between the reality and the description is happening.

Well...not really. There won't ever be an organised campaign if we all just shut up and accept things as a "personal choice". I could fizz the neoliberal ping pong ball back across the net at you on this basis but it's simply too dreary to bother.

In the current polycrisis automation replacing paid jobs is a pretty big deal, and a campaign which addresses the effects and consequences of automation on low paid work would probably be more effective, than writing to the manager of the local Sainsbury's demanding that automated tills are removed.

People are open to working collectively on these issues and some may already have done so as far as I can see.

Your only issue appears to be a dislike of any rhetorical flourish around the term "scab tills" which with great respect, is neither here nor there.

 

[brogdale]

I think that’s very different as it’s about access and health & safety.
In fact, the availability of self-service tills is also a matter of access - the withdrawal of such things would restrict access

I see your point but, in an economic sense, the move to scab tills and automated ticketing are both attempts at neoliberal corporate profit maximisation through labour shedding. I think we all know that there are access issues around having no choice in how a purchase is made which is why there was a (successful) campaign against the close of ticket offices and why we should not just accept the corporate logic of doing away with staffed tills.

 

[NoXion]

Well...not really. There won't ever be an organised campaign if we all just shut up and accept things as a "personal choice". I could fizz the neoliberal ping pong ball back across the net at you on this basis but it's simply too dreary to bother.

In the current polycrisis automation replacing paid jobs is a pretty big deal, and a campaign which addresses the effects and consequences of automation on low paid work would probably be more effective, than writing to the manager of the local Sainsbury's demanding that automated tills are removed.

People are open to working collectively on these issues and some may already have done so as far as I can see.

Your only issue appears to be a dislike of any rhetorical flourish around the term "scab tills" which with great respect, is neither here nor there.

Waving off the use of patently incorrect terminology as merely "rhetorical flourish" suggests to me that the acceptance has already happened among those who use it. Language concording with reality is only of use to those seeking to change reality, after all.

 

[brogdale]

Has anybody actually asked shop workers if they actually like working on the till and dealing with the public? As I mentioned several posts ago, it can be an actively unpleasant experience and many staff (me and my co-workers at the time) preferred to do other things around the store or in the warehouse as being on the tills was considered punishment. A not inconsiderable minority of the shopping public are total cunts.

Generally speaking, few of us get asked whether or not we like the work we do; that's not how it works.

 

[Throbbing Angel]

We use Booths probably once or twice a month up here. It was very noticeable when they took out the automated tills at their Garstang and Kendal stores.

They have not replaced the missing staffed tills (that were removed to make room for the self scan tills) but have ensured that the remaining tills are all staffed.

 

[steeplejack]

Waving off the use of patently incorrect terminology as merely "rhetorical flourish" suggests to me that the acceptance has already happened among those who use it. Language concording with reality is only of use to those seeking to change reality, after all.

I won't trouble your version of reality further

 

[SpookyFrank]

the Sainbury's I use weekly requires receipt scanning upon exit (installed recently) + the unpleasantry of being filmed during scanning/paying process.

Absolutely fuck that. I'd travel twice as far to go to a different shop.

 

[Serge Forward]

do you not follow the operating instructions for equipment ? not follow recipes when cooking ?

or are you tryingt o be deliberately obtuse by attempting to play a pragmatic-semantic 'trick' thinking it's a gotcha ?

None of the above.

 

[Orang Utan]

There's no organised campaign to pressure supermarkets into using crewed tills/not using self-service tills. The empty rhetoric of "scab tills" is an individualised neoliberal farce, and its impotence is demonstrated by the fact that self-service tills continue to see use and deployment.

Parklife!

 

[NoXion]

I won't trouble your version of reality further

When rhetoric and reality collide, which do you think comes off the worse for wear? I think you know the answer, hence your flippant non-response here.

 

[skyscraper101]

The self-service tills at my local Sainsburys are shite. Half of them aren't even operational/switched on. Even when there's clearly a massive line waiting to pay.

Then there's the matter of the scales being so small you can only do little shops or else you wouldn't be able to balance all the stuff on it. Its bollocks.

 

[Chz]

My main complaint with the ones I use most often - in the local Lidl - is that they've tuned them to be more sensitive to weight discrepancies than their suppliers are in their factories. The till throws a tizzy for being 5g off 350g for something that often has a 5% variance. I note for their own stuff (like bakery items) it's quite loosey goosey with the weights.

 

[seeformiles]

Generally speaking, few of us get asked whether or not we like the work we do; that's not how it works.

Indeed. This depends on the relative choice some people have with regard to their employment. Many on here seem to assume that shop staff wish to keep staffed tills as some sort of undiluted good. When supermarkets first came along, did anyone think of the counter staff in grocery stores who had to cut and pack everything to order for a long queue of customers? There was still work cutting, weighing and packing - just done without having to deal with the public so much who were probably even cuntier back then.

 

[liquidindian]

Fucking pillock. Him, not you.

It's fine, it's fair.

 

[moomoo]

Has anybody actually asked shop workers if they actually like working on the till and dealing with the public? As I mentioned several posts ago, it can be an actively unpleasant experience and many staff (me and my co-workers at the time) preferred to do other things around the store or in the warehouse as being on the tills was considered punishment. A not inconsiderable minority of the shopping public are total cunts.

I work in a supermarket and occasionally help out on checkouts. Usually it’s ok but there’s always one customer who insists on being an absolute dick. I do not engage with their nonsense though.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

The self-service tills at my local Sainsburys are shite. Half of them aren't even operational/switched on. Even when there's clearly a massive line waiting to pay.

Then there's the matter of the scales being so small you can only do little shops or else you wouldn't be able to balance all the stuff on it. Its bollocks.

there's still a reliability issue with the damn things - not sure which bit is the one that breaks.

at my local insainsbury's there's now two sorts, one for basket shops and one for trolleys (with bigger bagging areas) but the sodding things still get have a hissy fit if you put A BAG in the BAGGING AREA, let alone put two or more bags on the bigger ones...

 

[liquidindian]

there’s always one customer who insists on being an absolute dick.

NO I WILL NOT SCAN MY RECEIPT

 

[Wilf]

Absent an organised campaign it's just a personal choice, isn't it? But dressing it up in rhetoric suggestive of collective action, where none actually exists, sounds like the kind of sneaky substitution for real collective action with individual choices that is (I would argue) a signature of latter-day neoliberalism. I'm not suggesting that this is an intentional deception by any means, but it seems to me like a fundamental disconnection between the reality and the description is happening.

Why does the absence of an organised campaign make hostility to scabtills an 'individual choice'? That just doesn't follow. And even more so, why is that a feature of neoliberalism?

Speaking personally, I see scabtills as part of a process of mechanisation that primarily affects workers, forced changes to their jobs, the exercise of power. I don't like having to use them because it aids that process and it's part of the mechanisation of the consumer too (pro-sumer?), harvesting data and all the rest of it. Yeah, okay, that's picking up on specific bit of the process in what is probably a losing battle. But that is the neoliberalism, not objecting to scab tills. Also, I object to the idea of 'oh, but don't you use phones... apps... but surely...'. This isn't about my ability to use apps, mobiles and the rest - though it is an issue for significant numbers who do struggle with these systems, feel excluded or anxious about them. It's that I'm hostile to the fuckers who are pushing and nudging these forms of smooth, rationalised consumerism further and further.